Need a mentor to point me in the right direction

[-Ice]

Hello guys! I've just jumped into the WH40K world and bought myself a Space Marine Battleforce and a bunch of other stuff. I've really admired the pictures of the minis in the books and even though I know this comes with years of experience (and lots of talent), I want to paint to a standard as close to those pictures as I can. That is my goal. What that means is that I aim to squeeze out every ounce of "learning" I can from each painting session I do, from each mini I touch.

I hope to build up a Blood Angel Space Marine force, so my dominant colors would be red and black, with some white (parchment) and gold/yellow (eagle crests/helmets) thrown in.

I aim for brightly colored minis (as opposed to the "realistic," gritty look) and I really like this work as it kinda has the "red-feel" that I think I want. Here is another example of the "red" that I want, while it is slightly darker, the highlights are still nice and bright. This example, while excellently done, is a bit too "dark red" for my taste. Here is another example of what I hope to achieve.

I think I've got a great eye for detail and I'm pretty OCD so I know I'll be pushing myself hard. The only downside is that I don't have that much money to spend on "fresh marines" to paint over. Anyway, here's a list of what I have so far:
> Space Marine Battleforce
> Citadel Hobby Starter Set (clippers, pva glue, basing materials)
> Skull White undercoat
> Paintbrush - Citadel Fine Detail brush, Medium Drybrush, Large Drybrush, Basecoat brush, Starter brush
> Foundation - calthian brown, mordian blue, knarloc green, tallarn flesh, mechrite red, iyanden darksun, undercoat black
> Paint - chainmail, skull white, bleached bone, blood red, chaos black, boltgun metal, blazing orange, codex gray
> Wash - badab black
> Tools - X-acto knife, cutting mat, water pot, mixing palette, Citadel superglue thin, modelling files

I've got a few PDFs on mini painting, as well as GW's How to Paint Citadel Miniatures and How to Paint Space Marines. However, I've found the "help" to be very vague and I just end up more confued than ever, which is primarily the reason why I've signed up to this site.

Having said all of that, I am now open to suggestions as to what else I need in the paints/tools/brushes department. I am particularly looking for step-by-step tutorials on how to paint in such a style as well as in-depth discussion on painting techniques and the effects achieved, as opposed to the "brush on some red here, then highlight with orange there" approach that I see almost all the time. I'm not doing much conversion work at the moment except maybe for some repositioned arms so I don't think I need the drills and vice yet especially since I'm limiting myself to just space marines/terminators/dreadnoughts for now.

After combing through what internet sources I could find that seem to work towards my chosen effect as well as from reading my PDFs and books, it would seem that my course would be:
1. Undercoat white - for brighter colors
2. Basecoat blood red - every nook and cranny
3. Wash areas with badab black - for shadow effect
4. Overbrush first with blood red, then drybrush with blood red, and highlight with blood red-blazing orange mix

I have yet to try this method but I'm optimistic with the results. So far, all my attempts were with a black undercoat and I've never been happy with the results so I'm very sure that black undercoat cannot give me what I'm looking for.

Whew! Thanks for reading!

 

[bsop]

First of all, welcome to the site! As far as a painting resource goes, this is far and away one of the best ones out there.

So, for you first attempts at painting, a wonderful place to start would be the "painting and conversions" sticky thread. It has dozens of articles which cover plenty of techniques ranging from a basic speed paint-job to sculpting to wet blending. That should absolutely be your first stop.

As far as your plan for painting the mini goes- its a great start, glad to see your aware of the benefits a white undercoat can yield. I do have a few suggestions for you though:

Instead of using blood red as your first base coat over the white, try using mechrite red. The key here is developing your shadow for your Mid-tone. Essentially what this means, is that the overall color of your model will be determined by the middle color you choose, not the shadow, not the highlights, but the color in between. It looks like you want Blood red to be your main color; you should shade down from this tone, and highlight up from it as well. Executing this properly can be fairly simple, but the most important thing to remember is to Keep Your Contrast.

Since the figures we are painting are very much smaller than real life, natural shadows and shadings from the light source will not appear as strong as they would on a larger model. We compensate for this by developing strong shades and highlights to build a very effective visual effect. Now your Original thoughts for the painting recipe has the right idea, but I don't think it will be enough to give you the desired effect. Over brushing with blood red, then dry brushing with the same color will not bring much contrast about. Additionally, your highlight may need to be stronger as well. Blazing orange can actually serve as a very effective highlight on blood red, used sparingly it can really make the color pop and doesent need to be mixed unless your doing extensive blending.

My suggestion for your paint scheme (put very simply, based on your original idea for the complexity of techniques):

Undercoat white
Paint with mechrite red, thoroughly.
Overbrush/drybrush/paint the armor minus the cracks and darkest recesses in it with blood red. (you can paint, drybrush, overbrush, etc here, depends on what your comfortable with doing)
Wash with your bhadab black.
Drybrush/paint with blood red to get highlights developed again.
Highlight with fiery orange- sparingly only the the very edges of the armor plating, tops of shoulder blades etc. you can do a light drybrush here, but i would suggest trying to paint the edges.. if you do choose to drybrush, make it very light and very much restricted to the "highest areas" and edges.

Simple recipe, should get your started with painting. On a final note though, Don't be afraid to try your recipe as well. Don't be afraid to do anything. The more you experiment, the more you can learn. Don't forget to post some pics when your done, its easier to give help when you can show what your painting level is approaching.

Good Luck!

 

[Tommie Soule]

welcome

If you're looking for strong bright reds, try starting from dark flesh and layer up to blood red, leaving the darker colour in the recesses where you want shading, with each layer add a little blood red to dark flesh each time you apply a layer.
highlight with orange/red mix, then orange on the edges.
glaze on some watered down red ink.

lately i've been using bestial brown first, devlan mud wash to shade,
red gore in a few layers letting the shade show through,
shade again with asurmen blue then regal blue glazes in the recesses,
then blood red red gore mix 20/80 twice, 40/60 twice 50/50 twice etc to pure blood red,
then same again for edges but with blazing orange/blood red,
the last add a bit o white to the orange for the final sharp highlights.
(tho this maybe long winded for what you want)

two great guides are the Eavy metal space hulk termie guide on thw GW site and the Khador guide from the khador force book.

don't write off black undercoat as the reason for not getting a solid bright colour, i always use it, not necessarily recommending it tho, find what works for you
need more help, just ask

Tommie

 

[Wyrmypops]

Washes don't tend to work well on Termies. Or anything with large flat areas. Washes have the opportunity to pool on things like that. Can exert control on how one draws the loaded brush into where the shading is wanted, but I've found it better to forego washes to provide the shading and just work from a dark basecoat shade up.
Looking at what you have I would consider starting with Mechrite to establish a solid red and shade straight from the off. Proceeding to raise that into Blood Red, and finishing with the Blazing Orange and a dab of white added into the mix.

It could well be worth practising first. Not only to get it right, but also for the confidence it would instill. Can always practice on the bases if nothing else is available.

 

[Torn blue sky]

I'd agree largely with what Tommie wrote. Never tried the blue washes/glazes in recesses, but I will now!
I tend to highlight red with a bit of a red/yellow/white mix. Used sparingly, of course. When people see me do that their first exclaimation is "Oh, but it'll turn out pink!". Herp derp, yes it does, I use the yellow to soften it a bit, but you'll find it works if you use it in tiny amounts building up to near white. It takes nothing away from the red. Also found, that using Blood Red, it dries kinda orangy. Using a thin red wash or two to glaze over it brings the bright red back out.

 

[Tommie Soule]

washes work on whatever you make them work on.

 

[Brother Tom]

Hello

As you want to be painting lots of Blood Angels you are going to find that red can be a very time consuming colour to paint due to it's consistency. A really good idea would be to invest in a spray gun to basecoat all these models or you may find yourself becoming very bored !!! For the new Blood Angels in the codex a spray gun was used to basecoat with a mix of 50% Blood red and 50% Dark Flesh. Here is the scheme:

-Basecoat, 50% Dark Flesh/ 50% Blood red
-The armour areas where then built up with Blood red (this is quite time consuming)
-Shade, 50% Black/ 50% Dark flesh in the recesses
-Line highlight Blazing Orange
-Line highlight Vomit Brown
-Line highlight Elf Flesh ( not really used for troops but used for commanders etc)
-Glaze with Baal Red

Prehaps this will be a bit complicated for your needs however......

Another good method for doing reds (especially if you don't have a spray gun) is to use the foundation Mechrite red paint in your base coat mix. So you could use 50% Mechrite red/ 50% scab red as your base coat, this helps to speed up the painting process. You can then recover that area with just Scab red, it will safe a lot of time !!!

Just out of interest how long do you plan to spend painting each Marine?

Thanx

Tom

 

[Torn blue sky]

Tom, just out of "wtf" factor, what is "line Highlight"? Not to seem like an arse or nought I'm really not sure what you mean, man. You mean like a pure thin highlight or what? Interested to find out.

 

[Brother Tom]

Haha, ok. Yes pretty much a pure thin highlight. So on a Space Marine it would be on the edges of the armour. Just a line with no blending, hmmmm hope it makes sense..... it does in my head.......

 

[Torn blue sky]

Ahhh ok. never tried that before! Alternately the mix of red/yellow/wite I do is a kina peach skin kina look...It could work! I tend to mix it as a blend at opposed to highlight though =)

 

[freakinacage]

line highlights a-plenty:

 

[skraaal]

And don't forget the golden rule concerning line high-lighting! Use the edge not the tip of your brush!

Happy painting!

Oh and @ the OP - remember the most important thing of all: Thin your paints!

 

[Tommie Soule]

And don't forget the golden rule concerning line high-lighting! Use the edge not the tip of your brush!

Happy painting!

Oh and @ the OP - remember the most important thing of all: Thin your paints!

Learn with both!

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Tommies first recipe (Dark flesh upto orange and then a wash is how I did http://www.coolminiornot.com/112589

 

[Brother Tom]

Yes, where as it is sometimes easier to rely on the edge of the brush for those highlights, you can't always rely on it. If you really want to improve you will have to learn to do those sharp highlights with the tip of your brush and one of the main things there is having a good paint brush.

 

[skraaal]

Yes, where as it is sometimes easier to rely on the edge of the brush for those highlights, you can't always rely on it. If you really want to improve you will have to learn to do those sharp highlights with the tip of your brush and one of the main things there is having a good paint brush.

Very true.

 

[-Ice]

Thanks for the replies guys. Unfortunately, being new to this, it got way over my head quick. I know in time it'll make sense though.

I've just realized this is a very expensive hobby. It's easy to say "try with this color" or "try with that wash" or "I've found great results with this mix" but what isn't said is that each "try" costs another pot of paint (for a new guy just building up his stocks) or another pot of wash or at the very least another mini that is "sacrificed" to the cause. So not only is it expensive starting out, "getting a feel" is also quite expensive. Anyway, I'm in, so it's too late to moan.

I've tried both priming with black and with white and I find that white gives me brighter colors. I've also tried a base of blood red vs mechrite red and for some reason, I like a blood red base better. Maybe it's because I'm aiming for a very-brightly-colored paint scheme and I've found that a blood red base and a dash of blazing orange makes my minis a very bright red (I think the orange makes it just a bit shinier than plain blood red?). If someone can teach me how to take photos and which site/server to upload to, I can post more pics to show my point.

 

[-Ice]

Just out of interest how long do you plan to spend painting each Marine?

I dunno... as much as is needed, I guess? I realize most articles suggest a base coat then painting the armor, which I take to mean using a smaller paintbrush. For now, with the mini I'm most happy with, I've based it with blood red, then made some orange coats for highlight --- and I've used a medium-sized drybrush for this --- and then just painted in the details (back of knees, groin, shoulder pad edges, etc.). So basically, the model was painted in the way I want it to look, then I just painted over whatever area needed a different color. All in all, that was maybe an hour for one model? I know that once I get my "steps" correct, it'll be quicker for each model and then the only time-consuming process would be on the details, which would only take me as long as I want it to take.

Which brings me to one point --- my mini has no shadows to speak of. I know there is a lot of discussion about this and one article even suggested "painting in" the shadows by using a bit of gray with whatever color to depict the "shadow"... so with regards to this, my minis have no shadows. Do I want them to have shadows? I dunno...

 

[IdofEntity]

If this is for a quick and dirty solution so that you can play them on a battlefield respectably, just use an armor wash. You'll get basic shadowing without having to spend ages.

 

[-Ice]

If this is for a quick and dirty solution so that you can play them on a battlefield respectably, just use an armor wash. You'll get basic shadowing without having to spend ages.

Thanks but obviously I'm not going for TTQ here else just a fey drybrush strokes and some gun detail and I'm done.