Do you ever wonder if you can get fired for painting little Naked Women?
- Thread starter beowulfthehunter
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farseerlum
New member
i guess i owe the citizens of america an opology insofar as they may think i was insulting them personally.
i was not. i was attacking america the country. not the people. i\'m sure americans are really nice as long as you don\'t talk about anything controversial. and to you nice people i apologise for seeming to attack you personally.
but i was actually attacking your country. you may think your laws have no effect on people in other countries, your wrong.
as an example lets say your company in america requires you to sign a contract that limits what you can do in your free time. if you think thats ok then fair enough.
now unfortunatly that large company has branches in other countries. like australia for instance.
well you still think it\'s alright don\'t you, cos, you know it\'s our choice to work there.
now in some countries it\'s illegal for these contracts to be required so this large corporation lobbies the government\'s and the world bank to put pressure on this country to allow these contracts to be made.
of course they did, you may rememebr the riots.
so now they are clean and clear.
the contracts are required and now every other comany in the country does the same thing.
so where did the choice go? you either allow a company to own you or you don\'t work. that\'s not a choice.
so by supporting your countries (companies) right to require such contracts you have in fact had a large part in making ME require one to work.
ritual is right. you have to abide by the law of the country in your free time. not that laws of your company.
you can make any damn law you want in america. but stop fobbing them onto us as well.
i was not. i was attacking america the country. not the people. i\'m sure americans are really nice as long as you don\'t talk about anything controversial. and to you nice people i apologise for seeming to attack you personally.
but i was actually attacking your country. you may think your laws have no effect on people in other countries, your wrong.
as an example lets say your company in america requires you to sign a contract that limits what you can do in your free time. if you think thats ok then fair enough.
now unfortunatly that large company has branches in other countries. like australia for instance.
well you still think it\'s alright don\'t you, cos, you know it\'s our choice to work there. now in some countries it\'s illegal for these contracts to be required so this large corporation lobbies the government\'s and the world bank to put pressure on this country to allow these contracts to be made.
of course they did, you may rememebr the riots.
so now they are clean and clear.
the contracts are required and now every other comany in the country does the same thing.
so where did the choice go? you either allow a company to own you or you don\'t work. that\'s not a choice.
so by supporting your countries (companies) right to require such contracts you have in fact had a large part in making ME require one to work.
ritual is right. you have to abide by the law of the country in your free time. not that laws of your company.
you can make any damn law you want in america. but stop fobbing them onto us as well.
Ah, but you do have a choice.
It\'s made at the election polls. However, if you are like us, you tend to forget the politicians lies of old, listening to their brand new promises, that they will break, and then you choose to vote the same bastards back in.
We don\'t put you into the position you hate. Your corrupt politicians do. They\'re the ones who sell you out.
We merely look out for our interests, much like every human on the planet. If your politicians are willing to be bought, we will buy them, if it serves our interests.
Just as every other country in the world will, if they can.
Also, Corporations are pretty much global now. Pointing the finger at us over how corporations run your job market is pretty silly.
farseerlum
New member
your nice evil dave. i like you.
i\'m not nice. i know the government is almost irrelevant. and voting even less so. your own government has been running along without real voter support for years now.
mine has mandatory voting. but yet both are doing whatever makes them rich. usually it\'s what the people with all the money tell them to.
if your saying i shouldn\'t dislike your country after it has wrecked the place then i\'m at a loss. should i have disliked it before it did it?
i\'m not nice. i know the government is almost irrelevant. and voting even less so. your own government has been running along without real voter support for years now.
mine has mandatory voting. but yet both are doing whatever makes them rich. usually it\'s what the people with all the money tell them to.
if your saying i shouldn\'t dislike your country after it has wrecked the place then i\'m at a loss. should i have disliked it before it did it?
Your opinion is quite skewed on how we have wrecked the place, since throughout history others have done far, far worse.
I am not a nice man, but I am an honest man, and I\'ll try to tell you the truth of the matter.
Your problem does not lie with us, it lies with your government being, in your view, over accommodating to us.
Your beef is with your government.
If you don\'t like it change it. Get into politics, protest, revolt, overthrow them and start over.
I know, I know, it\'s easier to sit back and point the finger at America, but know that the problems in your country are not our making, they are yours, because you fear to take the steps in changing it.
You can sit there and blame us, and your government for all the woes in your country, when in truth you should be blaming yourself and your neighbors for allowing it to happen.
So sit there and blame us, I don\'t care.
It\'s easier to be a victim. It\'s easier to point the finger. It\'s easier for it to be someone else\'s fault, rather than take responsibility.
As I said, I\'m not a nice man, in fact I\'m a very cynical man. I\'m betting you just won\'t get it. That\'s fine, some people don\'t, some people never will.
Like I said I don\'t care if you hate us, Honestly, I don\'t, but if you bring your angst, your bile ridden hatred here, to this forum, I will retaliate, as will others. Quite a few of us are sick of the crap. There are hundreds of different places on the web to piss and moan.
reply to farseerlum
i am beginnning to get quite angry with you, ritual is open to us talking back and forth whereas you farseerlum extend an olive branch only to pull out a knife with your other hand. i am officially done with this thread.... i recently joined to talk minis but if people are into bashing other countries then please take it to a news site and not here. for crying out loud man the world is not perfect and by ripping on other places you perpetuate that belief.. please stop and lets just lick our paintbrushes and be happy.
nuff said.
i am beginnning to get quite angry with you, ritual is open to us talking back and forth whereas you farseerlum extend an olive branch only to pull out a knife with your other hand. i am officially done with this thread.... i recently joined to talk minis but if people are into bashing other countries then please take it to a news site and not here. for crying out loud man the world is not perfect and by ripping on other places you perpetuate that belief.. please stop and lets just lick our paintbrushes and be happy.
nuff said.
vincegamer
New member
Then you are demonstrating a lack of understanding of the American mentality (and of capitalization). Americans take great pride in being a nation \"of the people, by the people\".
So, insulting the nation IS insulting the people. We do not have a monarch to take all the blame. Sure, we shower blame on the President and the Congress, but in the end the majority of Americans put them there, and we all recognize that.
Corporations also get blame, but we also realize that corporations are actually organizations of people. People running them make those decisions. Usually they aren\'t elected there, but if they are disliked enough they won\'t be there long anyway.
When you insult \"america\" you insult everyone in America, at least from an American perspective. Think of the movie Spider Man. When the Green Goblin attacks, the New Yorkers start throwing rocks and bottles at him. He attacked New York, which, to paraphrase the guy on the bridge, meant he attacked each and every New Yorker. It\'s a form of nationalism based on appreciation of the system rather than any sense of ethnic or familial bonds.
p.s. Farseelum, if you only want to read about minis then only read the minis threads.
vincegamer
New member
If you read the link I attached above, it was a female teacher who was fired for taking her students to a museum where there were nude statues.
I will have to concede to you on this point. I think workers in this country HAVE dropped the ball and Corporations are getting away with more and more. I am heavily involved in my Local Labor Union, and I have to tell you its a struggle. Its a struggle when a whole generation of employees think the \'company\' gives them benefits and wages out of the kindess of thier hearts.
You raise a great point. What happens in America will most likely affect others, the influence and money coming from America is just too great.
I don\'t speak for American\'s at all, but I am not opposed to discussing controversial things at all. I\'ll still be nice about it, hell cordial even.
You do need to realize though, insulting ones country is a LOT like insulting one\'s Mother. You can do it if you are one of the family, but if it comes from outsiders you will be taken to task on it.
I\'m conviced you convienently blame America for all your ills, you are conviced the blame is rightly placed. Most likely the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Anyhow, I\'m glad you can share your views and discuss it. I take none of this personally, its just a healthy discussion.
Duende
New member
Vince, of all people, you should realize that\'s a completely different scenario. She didn\'t make, paint, or was one of the nude statues.
I think I\'m just remmebering a couple of years back i saw on TV some supermodel or female celebrity was \"painting\" by smearing her body with paint and rubbing herself on a canvas. But in this case, eveybody thought it was great! Nobody was calling her immoral and trying to get her fired from her job. So is it also sexist? ...that a comparatively attractive popular female is applauded for painting with her body, but some unknown Joe Schmoe is called a perv and denounced?
The real problem there is that the people in his area found out what his does in his free time. So now when they think of him, they can only think of what he does with his wang. And this disturbs thier little minds so much that than rather just get over it and mind thier own business, they get all bothered and tell the school board how bothered they are by obsessing about this guy\'s wang painting that they want the source of their obsession removed. So the school bows to their opinion (because thier little minds are hung up on his wang too, and it bothers them), so they boot him. Democracy wins, end of story.
I think he should go apply to teach at a university for a class titled \"Wang Art 101\".
and @ farseerlum, what is a country if not its people? I believe a country populated by any other animal would actually be considered \"free land\" and absorbed by other countries populated by humans.
And even American as I am, I\'m usually pretty nice to talk to whether the subject is controversal or not. I realize you\'re angry but please place the blame where is belongs, on the lobbyist and lawmakers who pull the stuff you\'re complaining about. I myself had no hand in it.... just so you know.
Have a nice day.
*EDIT* A rule of thumb is that people in polite company shouldn\'t discuss sex, politics, or religion. This is why!
I definitely think you can do that! As long as you can stay polite even though people don\'t agree with you (like Dave in this thread, for instance). The problem is when people get upset and take arguments as insults or attacks. I think it\'s important, actually, to discuss these \"big\" subjects as through discussion you can widen your perspectives and understand people better... even change your own views sometimes. If you can\'t do it in polite company, when can you?Originally posted by Duende
*EDIT* A rule of thumb is that people in polite company shouldn\'t discuss sex, politics, or religion. This is why!
Originally posted by Ritual
I think it\'s important, actually, to discuss these \"big\" subjects as through discussion you can widen your perspectives and understand people better... even change your own views sometimes. If you can\'t do it in polite company, when can you?
I totally agree with this....My world view has changed SIGNIFICANTLY since I have found this forum.
Talion
New member
I think that\'s a complety different area.
The fact of the matter is this guy Teaches kids. If he likes to paint with his Willy then maybe what else does he liked to do or maybe later do with it.
That\'s the bit I don\'t like, there are certain proffessions that home hobbies should be looked at.
If he was a brickie or anything else, I wouldn\'t care, but anything to do with kids...no thanks.
If he was to later on go on and rape a child, we\'d all be arguing, \"we should\'ve seen it coming he liked to paint with is wang\"
Wren
New member
I am intrigued by Duende\'s musings on the gender of the person in question. I keep coming up with conflicting thoughts on it that make it hard for me to reach even a hypothetical conclusion.
* I don\'t think most people would consider the thought of a guy rubbing his butt and tackle in paint and then on a canvas particularly sexually appealing. Images of men are not sexualized nearly so much in our culture as images of women. Certainly the video of this fellow making his art did nothing to make me think of sex. (My main thought was to hope the artist is considering possible toxicity issues in the paint he uses.)
* However, the response of some people considering this highly pervy and immoral suggests that while they may not personally find this sexually appealing, their assumption is that the artist, because he is using parts of his body that are also used for sexual functions, must be doing it because HE finds it sexually satisfying in some fashion, which makes him a perv, which means he should not be let near children.
* Someone posted a link to a woman who uses her breasts in a similar artistic fashion. I don\'t think there were many replies to that. Is that because she isn\'t a teacher so there\'s no \'think of the children\' factor? Or because it had no impact on whatever her employment was so there\'s no debate about politics factor? Is it because that mental image is a lot sexier to people, so it doesn\'t seem pervy and wrong? Is it because breasts are fairly commonplace, but wangs are the last taboo? (I mean, how many bare breasted minis are there on CMON compared to those with visible wangs?)
I do find the situation of this guy being fired for his hobby somewhat troubling. (Given that nothing we have available to judge by, including video of him actually making his art, suggests the hobby is in the least way sexual. Wangs are also used to urinate. Should we fire any teacher we find has ever written his name in the snow because by golly what else might he like to do with his wang?) The one point I see that might make it understandable is what someone else raised - does this affect his authority in the classroom. I can see where kids circulating and gossiping about a video of a teacher wearing a completely ridiculous looking disguise and a thong might be disruptive to classroom learning.
I am much more troubled by the story about the teacher fired after taking a class to a museum that included works of art featuring nudes. She didn\'t choose the museum\'s collection or how to display it. Are teachers really supposed to go into such a place before a field trip and plot out a route that won\'t expose a single young eye to an errant breast or buttock? Do people want museums and art galleries to warehouse all nude images in an 18+ wing? And I guess the real poser for me personally is are there really people who are SO uptight about the human body that they think seeing a classically depicted artistic nude body part will really scar an 11 year old child? I know there are, I just have trouble wrapping my head around it.
* I don\'t think most people would consider the thought of a guy rubbing his butt and tackle in paint and then on a canvas particularly sexually appealing. Images of men are not sexualized nearly so much in our culture as images of women. Certainly the video of this fellow making his art did nothing to make me think of sex. (My main thought was to hope the artist is considering possible toxicity issues in the paint he uses.)
* However, the response of some people considering this highly pervy and immoral suggests that while they may not personally find this sexually appealing, their assumption is that the artist, because he is using parts of his body that are also used for sexual functions, must be doing it because HE finds it sexually satisfying in some fashion, which makes him a perv, which means he should not be let near children.
* Someone posted a link to a woman who uses her breasts in a similar artistic fashion. I don\'t think there were many replies to that. Is that because she isn\'t a teacher so there\'s no \'think of the children\' factor? Or because it had no impact on whatever her employment was so there\'s no debate about politics factor? Is it because that mental image is a lot sexier to people, so it doesn\'t seem pervy and wrong? Is it because breasts are fairly commonplace, but wangs are the last taboo? (I mean, how many bare breasted minis are there on CMON compared to those with visible wangs?)
I do find the situation of this guy being fired for his hobby somewhat troubling. (Given that nothing we have available to judge by, including video of him actually making his art, suggests the hobby is in the least way sexual. Wangs are also used to urinate. Should we fire any teacher we find has ever written his name in the snow because by golly what else might he like to do with his wang?) The one point I see that might make it understandable is what someone else raised - does this affect his authority in the classroom. I can see where kids circulating and gossiping about a video of a teacher wearing a completely ridiculous looking disguise and a thong might be disruptive to classroom learning.
I am much more troubled by the story about the teacher fired after taking a class to a museum that included works of art featuring nudes. She didn\'t choose the museum\'s collection or how to display it. Are teachers really supposed to go into such a place before a field trip and plot out a route that won\'t expose a single young eye to an errant breast or buttock? Do people want museums and art galleries to warehouse all nude images in an 18+ wing? And I guess the real poser for me personally is are there really people who are SO uptight about the human body that they think seeing a classically depicted artistic nude body part will really scar an 11 year old child? I know there are, I just have trouble wrapping my head around it.
Dragonsreach
Super Moderator
@WREN: Thank you a brilliant expression of exactly what I\'m feeling on this issue.
Duende
New member
Originally posted by Ritual
I definitely think you can do that! As long as you can stay polite even though people don\'t agree with you (like Dave in this thread, for instance). The problem is when people get upset and take arguments as insults or attacks. I think it\'s important, actually, to discuss these \"big\" subjects as through discussion you can widen your perspectives and understand people better... even change your own views sometimes. If you can\'t do it in polite company, when can you?Originally posted by Duende
*EDIT* A rule of thumb is that people in polite company shouldn\'t discuss sex, politics, or religion. This is why!
Don\'t get me wrong, I don\'t subscribe to that idea. It\'s just a rule from an old Emily Post ettiquite book or something. Generally those topics garnish the most responses here. And I think for the most part, we all handle ourselves well in having thoughtful discussions about such subjects. Kudos to all of you!:beer:
