Do you ever wonder if you can get fired for painting little Naked Women?
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philologus
Subgenius
See response above (i.e. the primate behavior) The kids were already \"affected\" prior to his exposure. It\'s not an issue of morals, in this case, for me. It\'s an issue of a Govt. employee whose salary I pay acting ridiculous. When I was employed by the Federal govt. I was required to behave within specific guidelines when off-duty. I knew that when I was employed. The penalties could have been as harsh as jail-time depending on the offense. If this person is fired then he needs to seek work where his behavior won\'t affect his employment.
@philologus
If this is really the case, then these double standards are far more hypocritical than I thought...
How can an activity be so bad you can get fired for doing it in your spare time in a country that takes pride in freedom for the individual, but still not be illegal? ???
If this is really the case, then these double standards are far more hypocritical than I thought...
How can an activity be so bad you can get fired for doing it in your spare time in a country that takes pride in freedom for the individual, but still not be illegal? ???
response to ritual
ritual,
i understand your reasoning but you still need to look at what you see america as from your eyes in europe. things are quite different when you are actually there. These differences happen all the time... one law is interpreted one way and then the other way.... its that way all through the world though... we need to realize that as the entire world revolves misconceptions and ignorance are what cause these problems in the first place. i feel we have all started to get off the main beginnning of this thread, including me... its when you see the strong felt feelings of those throughout the world that you begin to realize why there never will be a true world community... and that ....is quite sad. i hope that in the end we can have stereotypes destroyed, but they are always there and no matter what happens, whoever screams the loudest no matter how small will be heard by the most.
btw on a side note i love your minis great colors and such
ritual,
i understand your reasoning but you still need to look at what you see america as from your eyes in europe. things are quite different when you are actually there. These differences happen all the time... one law is interpreted one way and then the other way.... its that way all through the world though... we need to realize that as the entire world revolves misconceptions and ignorance are what cause these problems in the first place. i feel we have all started to get off the main beginnning of this thread, including me... its when you see the strong felt feelings of those throughout the world that you begin to realize why there never will be a true world community... and that ....is quite sad. i hope that in the end we can have stereotypes destroyed, but they are always there and no matter what happens, whoever screams the loudest no matter how small will be heard by the most.
btw on a side note i love your minis great colors and such
evildave response
The school is a business, where the line stops is determined by the customers, the parents.
______________________________________________
a school is not a business... our students are not products... they are a human being... if you run a business and you make ice cream and you get a bad batch of blueberries you throw them out... in business that is... we (teachers) cannot throw out the bad blueberries we need to learn how to help use them too... the moment we start treating our schools like a business and not real life individuals is the day that our schools die....
you cant fire a student.
just something to think about...
The school is a business, where the line stops is determined by the customers, the parents.
______________________________________________
a school is not a business... our students are not products... they are a human being... if you run a business and you make ice cream and you get a bad batch of blueberries you throw them out... in business that is... we (teachers) cannot throw out the bad blueberries we need to learn how to help use them too... the moment we start treating our schools like a business and not real life individuals is the day that our schools die....
you cant fire a student.
just something to think about...
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
There is so much hypocricy in every country.. the reason is simple. A country ruled by one single thesis, freedom for example would be impossible to live in. Even if things seem logically flawed you have to take to account voters interest, religous interests etc. as USA is a huge country of high cultural diversity using strong unifying rethorics as \"the promotor of peace and liberty\" etc. the double standard might be more common or seem more common because of that. I\'m not sure there has been a study on the subject. I hate those clauses though... with passion.
And you know what.. as a liberal view historically it\'s not very controversal. All since Mill it\'s always been about fostering people to the moral heights needed to be a free and responsible citizen. And neo concervatives don\'t talk about freedom of the individual despite the rethorics but have more focused on freedom of economy (some parts at least).. and the reason for that is a more pragmatical one, they believe it\'s the most productive way of arranging things. The organic view of the state is very much alive.. They have never believed in the people.. the masses. It\'s a part of their history and their ideology, it\'s all there to read really. Nothing controversial about that. It all leads to hypocricy and double standards of course.. but name a country that isn\'t governed in that way?
The only thing about USA is that.. they are the most influencial country in the world and aren\'t affraid to use that power. Hence the decisions their government makes affects us all and will upset emotions, and rightly so. But we should never revert to cultural racism.. it\'s a dead alley that we don\'t want to revisit wether it\'s USA or any country in the middle east. Call the darkness night.. wether it\'s cultural or biological determinism that leads to racism the results can be just as horrifying.
One way of vaccinating ourself to cultural racism is to try to read history in an openminded way to see our own pathetic mistakes.. and make friends from all over the world. Like I\'ve done on this born. Now a days I\'m allergic to anyone saying USA sucks.. and that\'s partly thanks to you guys and girls.
Thank you.
And you know what.. as a liberal view historically it\'s not very controversal. All since Mill it\'s always been about fostering people to the moral heights needed to be a free and responsible citizen. And neo concervatives don\'t talk about freedom of the individual despite the rethorics but have more focused on freedom of economy (some parts at least).. and the reason for that is a more pragmatical one, they believe it\'s the most productive way of arranging things. The organic view of the state is very much alive.. They have never believed in the people.. the masses. It\'s a part of their history and their ideology, it\'s all there to read really. Nothing controversial about that. It all leads to hypocricy and double standards of course.. but name a country that isn\'t governed in that way?
The only thing about USA is that.. they are the most influencial country in the world and aren\'t affraid to use that power. Hence the decisions their government makes affects us all and will upset emotions, and rightly so. But we should never revert to cultural racism.. it\'s a dead alley that we don\'t want to revisit wether it\'s USA or any country in the middle east. Call the darkness night.. wether it\'s cultural or biological determinism that leads to racism the results can be just as horrifying.
One way of vaccinating ourself to cultural racism is to try to read history in an openminded way to see our own pathetic mistakes.. and make friends from all over the world. Like I\'ve done on this born. Now a days I\'m allergic to anyone saying USA sucks.. and that\'s partly thanks to you guys and girls.
Thank you.
Ok then what if it was a teacher in England doing the horizontal monster mash with a 16 year old from another school?
The oldest cave paintings, done by so called barbarians, people wearing animal skins and using rocks as tools, didnt use thier wangs to paint. Goes to show how far civilisation has \"advanced\".
The oldest cave paintings, done by so called barbarians, people wearing animal skins and using rocks as tools, didnt use thier wangs to paint. Goes to show how far civilisation has \"advanced\".
I think you are missing thepoint of the contract clause.....IF he had no contract that paid heed to his decency/morality, then I am all for his right to sue the shit out of the School District. But if we assume he does have this sort of clause....HE SIGNED THE CONTRACT. It was his choice to break the rules of the contract, making the agreement null.
No, Jim, I\'m not missing the point really. In Sweden it would be against the law to form such a contract and, thus, the contract would not be legally binding. You can\'t force an employee to sign a contract (because that\'s what they do, in effect) that strips you of rights that are legally yours.
My point is that these types of contracts really shouldn\'t be allowed in a free society. I see very big problems with having an official law that says one thing and then a fuzzy, inofficial law that is not agreed upon in a democratic manner that says something else.
@uberdark
Yeah, I guess you\'re right again! But, I think, at least, that it\'s important to question these types of actions or the tendency will become even worse.
And, thanks for the kind words about my minis! :beer:
My point is that these types of contracts really shouldn\'t be allowed in a free society. I see very big problems with having an official law that says one thing and then a fuzzy, inofficial law that is not agreed upon in a democratic manner that says something else.
@uberdark
Yeah, I guess you\'re right again! But, I think, at least, that it\'s important to question these types of actions or the tendency will become even worse.
And, thanks for the kind words about my minis!
:beer:The problem with this story is that it\'s just a piece of the actual story.
Were there large amounts of parents calling for his dismissal, threatening to pull their kids out of the school? That would basically cut their funds and endanger more jobs than this one teachers.
Was it causing a disturbance at the school?
Was he even a good teacher?
Did he just hand them the excuse they were looking for to fire him?
My mother was a teacher, and from my experience, these behavior clauses are only used as a way to get rid of someone who is crummy at their job, and were trying to find a way to get rid of them, otherwise it\'s nearly impossible to get rid of a state employee.
There are just too many factors we don\'t know and will not get from these news snippets from the media.
There is not enough context, and context is everything.
Were there large amounts of parents calling for his dismissal, threatening to pull their kids out of the school? That would basically cut their funds and endanger more jobs than this one teachers.
Was it causing a disturbance at the school?
Was he even a good teacher?
Did he just hand them the excuse they were looking for to fire him?
My mother was a teacher, and from my experience, these behavior clauses are only used as a way to get rid of someone who is crummy at their job, and were trying to find a way to get rid of them, otherwise it\'s nearly impossible to get rid of a state employee.
There are just too many factors we don\'t know and will not get from these news snippets from the media.
There is not enough context, and context is everything.
philologus
Subgenius
Originally posted by Ritual
No, Jim, I\'m not missing the point really. In SwedenThat is exactly the point. Sweden is not the U.S. We are free to make contracts restricting behaviors. He did not have to sign the contract (if indeed the clause in question is present). If he was dumb enough to believe he wouldn\'t be held to the contractual obligations of his employment, then he is too dumb to teach anyway. it would be against the law to form such a contract and, thus, the contract would not be legally binding. You can\'t force an employee to sign a contract (because that\'s what they do, in effect) that strips you of rights that are legally yours.
My point is that these types of contracts really shouldn\'t be allowed in a free society. I see very big problems with having an official law that says one thing and then a fuzzy, inofficial law that is not agreed upon in a democratic manner that says something else.U.S. citizens do not have a right to employment. They are not forced into contracts. They seek terms of employment that they deem beneficial at a rate that is agreed upon beforehand. I think one major difference between nations here is the degree of Govt. involvement in Labor protection, and labor law.
@uberdark
Yeah, I guess you\'re right again! But, I think, at least, that it\'s important to question these types of actions or the tendency will become even worse.
And, thanks for the kind words about my minis!
@Evil Dave
Yes it\'s the law! The same law that states legitimate reasons for firing someone... and being a child molester and working with children is legitimate reason according to the law (here, at least). No double standards, just the law!
And, for the record, I\'m not saying our law is perfect or haven\'t got its own share of problems...
@philologus
Yes, of course, our law does not apply in the US. I\'m just saying that I find the double standards hypocritical. And I find it quite curious that your law allows contracts to be made that in some aspects overrides the law.
I accept that this is probably the way it works in the US and I\'ve also come to understand that a lot of you are OK with that. I just find it strange... that\'s all!
Yes it\'s the law! The same law that states legitimate reasons for firing someone... and being a child molester and working with children is legitimate reason according to the law (here, at least). No double standards, just the law!
And, for the record, I\'m not saying our law is perfect or haven\'t got its own share of problems...
@philologus
Yes, of course, our law does not apply in the US. I\'m just saying that I find the double standards hypocritical. And I find it quite curious that your law allows contracts to be made that in some aspects overrides the law.
I accept that this is probably the way it works in the US and I\'ve also come to understand that a lot of you are OK with that. I just find it strange... that\'s all!
It depends upon the state, some states have fairly restrictive labor laws, others don\'t.
It also depends on the type of job.
If I had a business that required a professional demeanor, such as a school, then yes, I would do my best to get rid of this guy.
If I owned an Art gallery, and made my living shilling the masses, then I\'d keep this guy, since any contraversy is publicity
No, that would not be a legitimate reason. The crime needs to be associated with the line of work. A bank robber could be fired if he handles money in his workl. A policeman can be fired if he assaults someone. Etc. I think a lengthy jail sentence is legitimate reason too, regardless of crime, since it makes the employee unable to perform his job. The point is, the law should, IMO (but, I understand that it works differently in the US...), regulate this...
