3rd Infantry type?

[Teleologica]

I understand that Teknes is designed to be a "reactive" force, excelling at shutting down the opponents advances, but I don't think every unit needs to be that way. I love the Teknes lore because it leaves so much potential for wacky abilities/units/etc. I think the units should reflect that aside from their looks.

Yeah, that's completely fair comment. For example, I love that Hadross has the slow/tanky theme that most of their models stick to, to some extent. However, the Frenzies seem really to be taking it in a new direction - they're still an attrition-type unit but do so much more aggressively rather than in a slow 'brick' like the Deepmen and the squiddies. Or Nasier - all three units are basically aggressive melee attackers, but each do quite a different and specialised thing.

@ Swan - good catch. They are going to be a horrible counter to the War Dancers. Which, yanno, isn't a bad thing!

 

[Xavarir]

Their Lash Out ability is far better then the Lineman counter attack. When they get struck they strike back, and with a range, which means that this is one of the only units that get a counter strike against bounding flourish. Add the mastermind in and they have the ability to eliminate units before they strike. And with the fact that the lash out has a 2" range, you can assume that is is truly some form of short range psychic backlash.

While a ranged unit would be different, the game truly is melee centric, and a ranged troop unit would have a field day chewing up their opponents (unless there were some major drawbacks to their ranged ability, which would basically make them useless to play anyways).

I wouldn't say far better. They have to survive the hit for it to trigger and it's only a rate 1 melee attack which then has to get through their opponents defense chart. The linesmen have a 30% chance for a rate 2 attack with the benefit of Follow-Through. It clearly depends heavily on the Brood's defense chart, wounds, and resilience which we know nothing about.

It may prove very useful against Bounding Flourish provided the dancer doesn't land > 2" away (which is possible; this is assuming the dancer has to land before being hit).

When I mentioned "ranged" previously I did not mean a ranged attack. I was referring to some sort of quirky "utility" skill (similar to Come Hither) which could be cast from ranged and used to manipulate the battle in some way. I suppose the Lash Out could be some sort of psychic blast, but it's a melee attack and some of the Brood sculpts have daggers. I read it as "you hit me, I throw this small dagger at that guy".

Don't get me wrong, I like the Brood and I'm sure they will see lots of play time on my table but I was hoping for some tighter connections between the lore and the abilities. Or a little more variance in the units. Right now Teknes seems like a "group everything up and wait for the enemy to do something" faction.

Teleo made some great points when he mentioned the units for the other factions. Even though I'm playing Teknes I would like the option to pick a different combo of units and "go on the offensive". After reading their lore, I was hoping the Brood would lend themselves to a slightly different style since both linesman and union workers already fit the "reactive" bill.

 

[CMON Michael Shinall]

[Reaction] Distraction: If an enemy that is engaged with this model would perform an attack action that does not target this model, and this model would be a valid target, that enemy must make a Will Check(1). On 1 or more failures it must allocate at least 1 attack die to this model. An enemy may only be targeted by Distraction once per turn.

 

[Swan]

I wouldn't say far better. They have to survive the hit for it to trigger and it's only a rate 1 melee attack which then has to get through their opponents defense chart. The linesmen have a 30% chance for a rate 2 attack with the benefit of Follow-Through. It clearly depends heavily on the Brood's defense chart, wounds, and resilience which we know nothing about.

It may prove very useful against Bounding Flourish provided the dancer doesn't land > 2" away (which is possible; this is assuming the dancer has to land before being hit).

Well, it has already been stated that reactions occur after the model with bounding flourish lands (which is how they by pass most counter attacks). As for landing more then 2" away, not an easy feat for anyone but the scourge hound, With only a 4" move, and with the brood on a 50mm base with the vamps on a 30mm base, it will be difficult for them to flourish without landing within 2" of the brood.

As for their staying ability, I assume that they will be similar to other rank 2 infantry 1 resilience, 2 wounds and I expect that they will be hit on 7 or better. This means that it will take a 3-4 dice attack to have a decent chance of eliminating a brood in a single shot. Since Lash Out does not have to target the figure that attacked, being able to take out opponents during their activation and before they strike is awesome. Counter attack only triggers against an opponent that has already taken their action. I assume broods will always be run in packs with a mastermind since that dramatically increases their effectiveness (well, until we see what good ol Timo can do)

 

[CMON Michael Shinall]

Since Lash Out does not have to target the figure that attacked, being able to take out opponents during their activation and before they strike is awesome.

Lash Out: Each time this model is hit, but not killed, 1 active enemy within 2” suffers a 1[RATE] melee attack.


Just remember that you do still have to target a currently active model within range.

 

[Xavarir]

Well, it has already been stated that reactions occur after the model with bounding flourish lands (which is how they by pass most counter attacks). As for landing more then 2" away, not an easy feat for anyone but the scourge hound, With only a 4" move, and with the brood on a 50mm base with the vamps on a 30mm base, it will be difficult for them to flourish without landing within 2" of the brood.

The way Teknes is shaping up it will be difficult for a dancer to land ANYWHERE after a flourish since the Teknes are all holding hands!

Dancer's will probably be forced to JUST clip the edge of a brood base so they can land, and that will allow them to land more than 2" away (but not by much).

As for their staying ability, I assume that they will be similar to other rank 2 infantry 1 resilience, 2 wounds and I expect that they will be hit on 7 or better. This means that it will take a 3-4 dice attack to have a decent chance of eliminating a brood in a single shot. Since Lash Out does not have to target the figure that attacked, being able to take out opponents during their activation and before they strike is awesome. Counter attack only triggers against an opponent that has already taken their action. I assume broods will always be run in packs with a mastermind since that dramatically increases their effectiveness (well, until we see what good ol Timo can do)

All units attacking the same target roll dice together so a 3-4 dice attack is not rare at all. Lash Out does not have to target a unit that attacked it but it does have to be an active unit. Chances are your opponent threw all activated units (that could get into position) at the Brood Warrior, and if he didn't, couldn't he just resolve the other active units first? This would ensure that the Brood Warrior did not get the chance to kill the active unit that did not target it before it could attack.

Example:

5 Ashmen activate
3 target a Brood Warrior, 2 target a Linesmen
The 2 targeting the linesmen resolve attacks first (this ensures that the Brood's Lash Out can not kill them before they get an attack off)
After that attack is resolved, the remaining 3 roll against the Brood Warrior with 3+ dice.

 

[Swan]

Lash Out: Each time this model is hit, but not killed, 1 active enemy within 2” suffers a 1[RATE] melee attack.


Just remember that you do still have to target a currently active model within range.

Yup, and that is what we are talking about. 5 Skorza attack, each on a different brood. First brood gets hit, he and all nearby brood Lash out at a Skorza that has not rolled his attack yet. With a little luck there will be one less Skorza. Since this will keep triggering each attack, your brood will get far more attacks when defending. This will allow them to be the ones who rush forward to take and hold objectives since no one will ever want to assault a full brood.

 

[Swan]

All units attacking the same target roll dice together so a 3-4 dice attack is not rare at all. Lash Out does not have to target a unit that attacked it but it does have to be an active unit. Chances are your opponent threw all activated units (that could get into position) at the Brood Warrior, and if he didn't, couldn't he just resolve the other active units first? This would ensure that the Brood Warrior did not get the chance to kill the active unit that did not target it before it could attack.

Example:

5 Ashmen activate
3 target a Brood Warrior, 2 target a Linesmen
The 2 targeting the linesmen resolve attacks first (this ensures that the Brood's Lash Out can not kill them before they get an attack off)
After that attack is resolved, the remaining 3 roll against the Brood Warrior with 3+ dice.

OK, when you activate a unit, everyone in that unit is considered "activated" until their turn is over, whether or not they have taken an action yet. So in your example, the 2 Ashmen that attacked the lineman are still active until the turn is over (all units that activated together remain "active" until all units have completed their turn). In this instance any of the 5 would be a valid target for Lash Out.

Besides, what is the likely hood that brood would deign to hang out with a bunch of Human Linemen? They have appearances to keep up. That and they will be rampaging across the board far faster then any silly lineman can keep up

As for the other point you made - having all of the figures attack a single Brood Warrior - yes, they will like kill the warrior, but if I can tie up 3-5 enemy units at the cost of a single brood warrior a turn I will chalk that up to a win. It allows me maneuver the rest wherever I need them. Control the battlefield and you control the game.

 

[Xavarir]

OK, when you activate a unit, everyone in that unit is considered "activated" until their turn is over, whether or not they have taken an action yet. So in your example, the 2 Ashmen that attacked the lineman are still active until the turn is over (all units that activated together remain "active" until all units have completed their turn). In this instance any of the 5 would be a valid target for Lash Out.

I understand that, but by the way you were talking, it sounded like you were planning to use Lash Out to kill an active unit before it attacked. Your opponent can avoid that by resolving all other attacks before attacking the Brood Warrior. Sure the Brood Warrior will Lash Out at something but not before that something attacks.

When it comes to the trade off of 3-5 enemy units being tied up by a single Brood Warrior, I'm not going to try an analyze this too much as it's too situational. Is it worth activating 3-5 rank 1s to kill a rank 2 being supporting by a rank 2 leader? Probably. In the end the rank 2 is dead and the rank 1s will live to fight another day (albeit probably not long).

 

[Swan]

I understand that, but by the way you were talking, it sounded like you were planning to use Lash Out to kill an active unit before it attacked. Your opponent can avoid that by resolving all other attacks before attacking the Brood Warrior. Sure the Brood Warrior will Lash Out at something but not before that something attacks.

When it comes to the trade off of 3-5 enemy units being tied up by a single Brood Warrior, I'm not going to try an analyze this too much as it's too situational. Is it worth activating 3-5 rank 1s to kill a rank 2 being supporting by a rank 2 leader? Probably. In the end the rank 2 is dead and the rank 1s will live to fight another day (albeit probably not long).

I think that the point being stated was, that the brood will run as a pack, not really with non brood units. So if you chose to attack it you will either have to face Lash Out multiple times, or you will have to only engage a single Brood Warrior at a time (and even then you may end up having to absorb multiple return shots since a brood will travel with a Mastermind). If you chose to only engage a single warrior, it allows the rest of the pack to either engage, or avoid and continue after objectives. Either way, advantage brood.

 

[Xavarir]

I think that the point being stated was, that the brood will run as a pack, not really with non brood units. So if you chose to attack it you will either have to face Lash Out multiple times, or you will have to only engage a single Brood Warrior at a time (and even then you may end up having to absorb multiple return shots since a brood will travel with a Mastermind). If you chose to only engage a single warrior, it allows the rest of the pack to either engage, or avoid and continue after objectives. Either way, advantage brood.

Or kill the broods in one roll and Lash Out does nothing. Either way it doesn't matter. My statement originally was that the brood warriors were kind of disappointing after reading the lore.

 

[Swan]

I on the other hand really like the brood. All we have seen so far is just a taste of their abilities and Lash Out not only follows the Teknes philosophy, I feel it fits in well with their lore. Until we actually see their full cards I am not sure we have a reason for disappointment. There is still so much we haven't gotten to see yet, each piece that we do get just adds to the anticipation.

 

[Xavarir]

We have just about all the pieces of the puzzle now for the Brood.

1. They have a "meh" basic attack.

2. Lash Out passive.

3. [Reaction] Distraction (I assume this tidbit from Mr. Black was another line from the Brood)

The only things missing are the wounds/resilience, which we can make a fairly educated guess at, and the defense chart (we can probably get pretty accurate here too). I could be wrong and the info we are missing could be huge. I hope so.

 

[Swan]

Well, you did leave some things out:

Their troops are sorta "eh" on tricks (mainly dealing with raw stats to survive) until a leader brings out their full potential:


a nice wound pool combined with the Lash Out ability make them super annoying for enemy infantry

So, if we start with their basic attack, since it is "meh" I would take that to probably mean a 2 rate attack with no additional abilities

Lash Out - really awesome ability

Distraction (if it belongs to them) is nice since it forces enemies they engage and fail to destroy to spread out their attacks, and increase the chance for Lash Out to occur

We haven't seen their movement or defense chart. those alone can make these troops shine

 

[Xavarir]

If the Distraction ability does indeed belong to the Brood Warriors, then the Lash Out ability has improved a great deal. It gives me the impression that the Brood Warriors want to take hits (Zaalak-esque?) and could provide further protection for the pain fueled piggys.

My guess for wounds and resilience is 2 and 1 respectively. On the off chance that they have either 2 resilience, or more than 2 wounds, then they will be better again. The more hits they can soak the more damage they will deal.

As I said before, I'm not doubting the effectiveness of the current design. They do fit the Teknes theme of hunker down and react, I was just hoping for more offensive, psychic power wielding, mutant babies.

 

[PraetorDragoon]

I am guessing, that they will be 1/3, with the usual 7+ hit chart. As thet seem like to be hit.

 

[Teleologica]

I agree PD, if only because Mr Black scoffed at the idea of Rank 2 infantry getting Res 2, but did say the babies have a 'nice wound pool'.

I have to say, I get that people might be concerned about apparent lack of variation in Teknes, but IMO it's too early to say the baby swarm is going to be good or bad, lots of stats remain unknown.

Oh, on which topic BTW Mr Black ... MOAR SPOILERZ PLZ!!!11!


TY

 

[Xavarir]

3 wounds would be sweet. The Skorza and The Wrath, the Rank 2 infantry we know everything about, both have only 2 wounds and 1 resilience. However, they are more offensive based Rank 2 infantry then the Brood seem to be. Because the Brood have to take hits to be the most effective, 3 wounds might not be unreasonable.

I think Swan hit the nail on the head when he said they will be amazing at holding objectives. That way, the opponent is forced to engage them and take quite a Lashing (see what I did there!?).

 

[Xavarir]

[Reaction] Distraction: If an enemy that is engaged with this model would perform an attack action that does not target this model, and this model would be a valid target, that enemy must make a Will Check(1). On 1 or more failures it must allocate at least 1 attack die to this model. An enemy may only be targeted by Distraction once per turn.

Mr. Black I have a question about this ability, regardless of who it is for. It says it must allocate at least 1 attack die to this model if it fails the will check. What happens in the case of an ability such as the Fulung Devourer's Spear of Light?

Say the Devourer uses Spear of Light and targets 3 models in a line. If the infantry with Distraction was on the complete opposite side, and in contact, with the Devourer, could he "distract" the Spear of Light and soak the entire hit himself (essentially he "taunts" the Devourer and the line attack flows over him instead of over the other 3 infantry originally targeted)? Or does the Devourer assign 1 die to the "distracter" and the remaining 3 to the original targets?

 

[Swan]

Well in this case, since the Spear of Light is a ranged attack, the Brood Warrior would not be a valid target, since he is in contact with the Devourer.