Public - GW Bashing

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Undave

Flockwit
I think the point of all that is to have the framework in place just in case someone does decide to take the piss. GW aren\'t going to come down like a ton of bricks on you if you put their minis on CMON but if you tried to use bits of their stuff in your own sculpts and sold them as part of your own company then they\'re likely to have something to say about it. Most of the time they use their own discretion and let things slide up to a point rather than litigating for litigations sake.

GW gets a lot of negative press because it\'s seen as \"the Evil Empire\" purely because it has been around longer and is more established than other, similar companies. Whilst I certainly don\'t agree with some of their past actions as companies go they just don\'t deserve the prejudice some people level at them.
 
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Spacemunkie

New member
Originally posted by Undave

That and unless the entire thing was done \"in house\" there would always be significant divergences from the established fluff. Just look at DoW for example. WTF is an IG Colonel doing running around in a pair of lightning claws and duffing people up....
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Well boo-hoo. You see this is 90% of GW\'s problem. They seem to think their \'IP\' is a bullet-proof entity that\'s worth a fortune. It\'s not, or their stuff would sell better than it does! It\'s also stifling anything creative that they might do at the moment because of the need to strictly adhere to \'fluff\'.

Who cares if someone has a weapon in a CPU game that they don\'t have access to in some poxy army list?

Cretinous.
 
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Undave

Flockwit
It may not be worth a fortune but it is what the company is built upon. The fluff evolves all the time but the rich tapestry of background is what fuels the games. They make sure that they leave more than enough vague loose ends for people to incorporate their own story into the background making for some colourful and inventive armies. The backstories are being built upon all the time as the Horus Heresy books have re-opened old story lines and formed an entirely new area for people to base their stuff in. I fail to see how it\'s stifled anything.
I buy into the whole thing just as much for the idea of the 40k and fantasy worlds as the games or the minis. To me it has far more appeal than some vague nebulous premise for why a certain set of minis behaves like it does in a game.


If you want to play something where you can crowbar anything into the story just because it sounds good with no regard for why it should be there try D&D :p


Edit: BTW I was taking the piss with the whole IG Commander thing. There\'s no real reason why he shouldn\'t lead from the front and the army lists are necessarily restrictive in order to keep the games running smoothly. It\'s just that my vision of a high ranking officer would be something like General Melchett Beeeeeeehhhhh lol
 
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Undave

Flockwit
You know, if there\'s one thing I\'ve learnt from working for GW, it\'s never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew an IP lawyer, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! \'Cos it turned out all along that the film maker who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other miniature companies who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the entire hobby. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!
 
EArkham

EArkham

Necromancer
Originally posted by Undave
If you want to play something where you can crowbar anything into the story just because it sounds good with no regard for why it should be there try D&D :p
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Er... that\'s exactly what GW did to build their \"rich backstory\" in the first place.

GW did the right thing with stopping the film. Most of us agree on that. It makes sense for them to have done.

But let\'s not delude ourselves into thinking that GW has come up with some immaculate, all original backstory that\'s solid as rocks. It\'s a patchwork story, influenced (or stolen, depending on your point of view) by dozens of other sci-fi greats. Just take a look at any of the \"fluff discussions\" on boards like Warseer. There are gaping holes in the story all over the place, and major plot points -- even entire races -- have been ret-conned in or out on a regular basis.

I have nothing but respect for GW. I love many of their miniatures and model kits; I\'m not a mindless basher. They have done a fair job tidying up the backstory over the past twenty plus years, but sorry, I draw the line at people calling it a \"rich tapestry\" of sci-fi. Especially considering how superior some of that same story\'s influences were. :)

It\'s a damn fine marketable product, but great sci-fi it most certainly is not.

Kep
 
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lono

New member
Is the background immaculate? No, of course it\'s not.

Is the background great sci-fi? Hell yes!

It packs a multitude of races, backstories and generally groovy things together into a world that although not perfect (if you want to try and squeeze as much pleasure from it as you can by analysing it a stupid amount) is compelling, packed with intrigue, unexpected elements and is the perfect catalyst for all of the goings on with their games and miniatures.

The background is all the more fascinating because instead of focusing on the most minute and unnecessary details it instead gives an illusion of an alternate and entertaining reality.

In the same way that a good mini painter or computer game designer would go about the task, they\'ve realised that if you go for realism, things get boring and all too questionable. If you go for the illusion of realism and pull it off, you have a rich and completely believable setting. For me the backgrounds to 40k and Warhammer do this to perfection.

Obviously you aren\'t going to agree. You clearly think there are massive weaknesses with the GW background so there\'s no point in me trying to change your mind. For me though, more than the miniatures, the games, the advancements they\'ve made in sculpting and casting, whatever else you care to pick out, it\'s the background to GW\'s worlds that has always been THE main attraction.

It\'s just so much more exciting than most other sci-fi fare because it\'s such an intriguing patchwork of elements and ideas.
 
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philologus

Subgenius
Oh Crap! I just read the GW IP thingy that was linked...Check this out:

\"We have no problem with people using forums to express their love (or even hate) of the hobby. We would, however, ask people to bear in mind that the hobby is for people all ages. Please be careful of the language used and the topics discussed.\"

Do they know about our Space Marine cod-piece thread? Chern! Get thee to the delete button immediately!!
 
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Spacemunkie

New member
Originally posted by lono

...it\'s the background to GW\'s worlds that has always been THE main attraction.
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Which is exactly why they should be making kiddie-friendly cartoons using the imagery and backgrounds. They\'d make a packet from action figures and toys. Mini gaming is dying on it\'s arse at the moment.

And if people can\'t see how creatively stifled GW has become over the past 15 years or so, then they must be utterly blinkered!

I get bored of reading about \'the good old days\' where GW are concerned, but much of what people are getting at is true: GW took more risks with the games and miniatures they released and there was much more choice of stuff to play or collect.

GW made business decisions based on branding and shifting units. It worked for a long time but I have a feeling that it\'s time to move with the times. They need to freshen their image and create some new IP - their competitors are very busy and continue to eat into the GW share of the market.
 
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uberdark

New member
i cant wait to see some daemonettes in little packages sold by fisher price.....of course slaanesh would taint them with lead just because.

lol
 
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lono

New member
Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Originally posted by lono

...it\'s the background to GW\'s worlds that has always been THE main attraction.
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Which is exactly why they should be making kiddie-friendly cartoons using the imagery and backgrounds. They\'d make a packet from action figures and toys. Mini gaming is dying on it\'s arse at the moment.
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I\'d be more tempted to:

- Take the multimedia advertising route (stuff like the Halo 3 website based around that ultra cool diorama) that actually showcases the background.

- Get an in house computer games division, rather than licencing them out (if they had done Warhammer Online right the first time around they would have got an absolute fortune from the monthly subscription fees. Because they have now licenced it out that cash goes to EA, or at least the majority does). And who could resist a Ghost Recon/Rainbow Six style tactical combat game based around Necromunda? Or a Fallout-like RPG where you are an Imperial Inquisitor?

- Sort out an in house animation studio pumping out something like the Starship Troopers Roughnecks animated series etc.

But in principle I agree with your statement. As soon as they realise that there are other mediums that they could be marketing their stuff through and, with a very stringent interview and testing process, they get people on board equipped to deal with this, they will find that they can keep making tabletop games and minis for the fun of it from the profit other ventures are bringing in.

I mean hell, if the first Warhammer Online had been less of a shambles, come out on time and got even a 10th of the audience WOW has they would be making crazy cash from it. In the region of $10,000,000 a year, a vast amount of that being profit I believe!
 
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Thunderhawker

New member
You know that Marvel comics did the same thing years ago with a Fantastic four movie (that, from what I heard, SUCKED!) and later came out with the current FF franchise movies which suck less, but are more in line with the company image. So, I have no issue with GW on this one. Intellectual property is intellectual property, and be damned to anyone who infringes on it.

That said when are we going to see something from them on the non-interactive side of the entertainment market?
 
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