Freelance painters, love\'em or loathe\'em?
- Thread starter Propaintjob
- Start date
Speaking (or writing) as a former employee for that same well known Games Company, and as a former actor and freelance painter I can see your points. To those females amongst us: many of the staff of these shops discovered mini\'s at the age before traditionally discovering girls, they aren\'t very comfortable in dealing with men, but when it comes to women, well I\'ve seen some good members of staff fall to pieces.
As for the confidence, quality of work, and feeling like a slag for painting for cash I go with my heart and my gut. Usually I take a piece I\'d love to paint, paint it, then sell it on eBay. For me it\'s the doing that I enjoy. I don\'t need to turn a profit, just need to plough the proceeds into more nice mini\'s. Occasionally I get asked to do a commission, and I only take it on if it floats my boat.
I\'m very lucky that, although it was once my living, I earn rather well on various contracts that come up. - not enough to commision someone else to paint for me though.
As for the animosity - it\'s a different kettle of fish in the retail side of a certain company - it\'s drummed into the \'recruits\' that any money on the side is dirty and evil. Naturally anyone else they see doing this is seen in the same light. Maybe the training has changed, maybe more tolerance has crept in now, but *shakes walking stick* in my day that\'s how it was.
(stop reading if I\'m rambling) I used to love teaching people how to paint though.
....never had a problem talking to women either.... but then I grew up with them ;-)
As for the confidence, quality of work, and feeling like a slag for painting for cash I go with my heart and my gut. Usually I take a piece I\'d love to paint, paint it, then sell it on eBay. For me it\'s the doing that I enjoy. I don\'t need to turn a profit, just need to plough the proceeds into more nice mini\'s. Occasionally I get asked to do a commission, and I only take it on if it floats my boat.
I\'m very lucky that, although it was once my living, I earn rather well on various contracts that come up. - not enough to commision someone else to paint for me though.
As for the animosity - it\'s a different kettle of fish in the retail side of a certain company - it\'s drummed into the \'recruits\' that any money on the side is dirty and evil. Naturally anyone else they see doing this is seen in the same light. Maybe the training has changed, maybe more tolerance has crept in now, but *shakes walking stick* in my day that\'s how it was.
(stop reading if I\'m rambling) I used to love teaching people how to paint though.
....never had a problem talking to women either.... but then I grew up with them ;-)
W
Warworks
Guest
minors can\'t make contracts here in the states either. Which, I suppose, I probably wise. I still take commissions from underage clients, but I always insist that the parent be the one to sign the receipt authorizing work, etc. It actually works out pretty good, because the parents know I\'m going to be honest with them, and I usually get more work for birthday surprises and the like.
@benjers - I\'m sorry, any money on the side? As in they shouldn\'t sell their services outside of work, or...??? I don\'t know too much about the internal GW retail mentality or business practices.
@benjers - I\'m sorry, any money on the side? As in they shouldn\'t sell their services outside of work, or...??? I don\'t know too much about the internal GW retail mentality or business practices.
Propaintjob
New member
I make it very clear in my Terms & Conditions and on my website that work will only be accepted from minors if they provide written consent from their parent/guardian. It\'s open to abuse obviously, but at least that way if a parent gets the hump and I end up in court I can show that I have taken every reasonable measure to prevent \'child robbing\'.
Gelflin: Just had a look at your gallery, nice Howling Banshee BTW, don\'t see any reason for a lack of confidence there. Got me doubting myself now!! lol
Regarding the certain games company, I certainly wouldn\'t have been able to freelance while I was employed by them (until last year), cuts into their paint sales you know
and would most certainly have been fired if I sold something on ebay (painted or otherwise) which I had bought with staff discount. I\'m still in touch with some of my old colleagues & my understanding is that it\'s still the same.
Gelflin: Just had a look at your gallery, nice Howling Banshee BTW, don\'t see any reason for a lack of confidence there. Got me doubting myself now!! lol
Regarding the certain games company, I certainly wouldn\'t have been able to freelance while I was employed by them (until last year), cuts into their paint sales you know
and would most certainly have been fired if I sold something on ebay (painted or otherwise) which I had bought with staff discount. I\'m still in touch with some of my old colleagues & my understanding is that it\'s still the same.Thanks!
Aha my evil plan for getting people to view my gallery worked....lol. No reallly thank you *blushes* On a confident note though the pics dont do the painting justice. I still think that freelancing is great especially as there is so obviously a market for it, hey if people are going to pay you to do something that you enjoy what the hell!!!!
Aha my evil plan for getting people to view my gallery worked....lol. No reallly thank you *blushes* On a confident note though the pics dont do the painting justice. I still think that freelancing is great especially as there is so obviously a market for it, hey if people are going to pay you to do something that you enjoy what the hell!!!!
T
t_haye2
Guest
the point with Gw is that if you\'re employed by them, it states in your contract that you are prohibited from working for any other business that works in the same industry, either your ow or as an employee. Also, anything you create during work or spare time MUST be offered to GW first, and you\'re not allowed to sell it elsewhere, untill they givetheir consent. basically, this means that you\'re not allowed to make money painting, sculpting, writing or illustrating in your spare time, UNLESS it\'s for GW. This is open to management disgression mind you, and i was allowed to sell minis and do comission work, as long as I bought the models at retail price, so i didn\'t \'make money\' off the companies\' back. These clauses were still too restricting for me in the end, and will never work for a company that would enforce them.
SJB
New member
That contract huh? A while back I thought about going to GW as an in-house sculptor and looked into it. Didn\'t seem there\'d be any problem getting the job and it was nice to know I wouldn\'t have to bother with the trainee program.
Unfortunately I didn\'t really relish the idea of killing off Spyglass in order to take the job. Might just about have managed to swing it if I stopped selliing the fantasy figures and went historical only (but I don\'t think they would have liked that either to be honest). In the end it didn\'t seem worth it.
Shame, I\'d quite liked the idea of working on some of their ranges.
Steve B
Unfortunately I didn\'t really relish the idea of killing off Spyglass in order to take the job. Might just about have managed to swing it if I stopped selliing the fantasy figures and went historical only (but I don\'t think they would have liked that either to be honest). In the end it didn\'t seem worth it.
Shame, I\'d quite liked the idea of working on some of their ranges.
Steve B
War Griffon
New member
That must be a 40K and WHFB thing then Tammy.
I play in the Warmaster tournies and you have to delcare that you painted the models yourself. Mind you with a more experienced age group amongst the Warmaster playersyou get to know everybody anywayso it is not really a problem.
Martyn.
@ tammy - it\'s true, that was stipulated in the contract, and ethically it would suck to make money off the company\'s back.
There was a chap who came to me when I was looking after someone elses store who wanted a very large dark angels army done - I would have earnt double my monthly salary on it - I had to grit my teeth and say no.
Being poor is not a good feeling, but maintaining your conscience is.
- off on a tangent, I\'m sculpting two Grey Knights with thunder hammer and storm shield. I can\'t work out the writing on the shoulder pads, can anyone help (I\'m a bit of a purist - who cares if no one can see it - I know it\'s there...)
I
There was a chap who came to me when I was looking after someone elses store who wanted a very large dark angels army done - I would have earnt double my monthly salary on it - I had to grit my teeth and say no.
Being poor is not a good feeling, but maintaining your conscience is.
- off on a tangent, I\'m sculpting two Grey Knights with thunder hammer and storm shield. I can\'t work out the writing on the shoulder pads, can anyone help (I\'m a bit of a purist - who cares if no one can see it - I know it\'s there...)
I
E
E-Arkham
Guest
I\'d think the main thing GW is concerned about is that you could command a higher price if you\'re known for being a Games Workshop \'eavy Metal painter. Obviously, GW feels that you shouldn\'t get free advertising out of their magazine, and in a lot of ways, that\'s a valid way of looking at it.
One flip side to that, of course, is whether GW is not willing to pay the fair market value of the painted miniatures to being with -- and \"fair market value\" is extremely subjective. Just look at what some of the top auctions have gone for here on CoolMini and compare that to some of the day-to-day auctions.
Determining a fair-market value of a painted figure\'s cost would be to break it into work done, how well known the artist is, notoriety, etc. The easiest part is determining the value unpainted -- OK, $4.99 for a Reaper, or $8.99 for a GW, etc, etc -- but where to go from there?
Obviously notoriety plays a significant factor. I\'m sure that Jen Haley, for example, would not be commanding the same prices she currently does if she were a complete unknown painting at the same level of skill. How do you measure something like that, or having regular work put in White Dwarf, or having a huge circle of friends?
If anybody has managed to quantify things such as a painter\'s notoriety or renown, let me know. It\'d be a great read.
As to the original poster, I love freelance painters and have since before I was amoung their ranks. There are some things I don\'t care for: so called \"pro painted\" work on eBay (of which I have yet to see one that was truly pro painted), and watching my own auctions end at less than half what other folks make to start (which boils down to just my being jealous, at the end of the day).
Kep
One flip side to that, of course, is whether GW is not willing to pay the fair market value of the painted miniatures to being with -- and \"fair market value\" is extremely subjective. Just look at what some of the top auctions have gone for here on CoolMini and compare that to some of the day-to-day auctions.
Determining a fair-market value of a painted figure\'s cost would be to break it into work done, how well known the artist is, notoriety, etc. The easiest part is determining the value unpainted -- OK, $4.99 for a Reaper, or $8.99 for a GW, etc, etc -- but where to go from there?
Obviously notoriety plays a significant factor. I\'m sure that Jen Haley, for example, would not be commanding the same prices she currently does if she were a complete unknown painting at the same level of skill. How do you measure something like that, or having regular work put in White Dwarf, or having a huge circle of friends?
If anybody has managed to quantify things such as a painter\'s notoriety or renown, let me know. It\'d be a great read.
As to the original poster, I love freelance painters and have since before I was amoung their ranks. There are some things I don\'t care for: so called \"pro painted\" work on eBay (of which I have yet to see one that was truly pro painted), and watching my own auctions end at less than half what other folks make to start (which boils down to just my being jealous, at the end of the day).
Kep
