Freelance painters, love\'em or loathe\'em?
- Thread starter Propaintjob
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TAB Studio
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Supervike is getting infamous for his posts ....page 14 Harbinger 12
Worth far more than the pay.
Worth far more than the pay.
Propaintjob
New member
That sheds quite a bit of light on it. There\'s quite a bit of stuff there I hadn\'t really considered, especially the tournament element.
Couldn\'t agree more about the term \'pro painted\' on ebay. I know my user name on here probably makes me sound like an arrogant tw@t at first glance (it takes a while to get to know me & realise that this is in fact true), it\'s just the name I gave to the website etc. Although, I know full well I\'ll probably never reach the top 100 on here let alone the standards displayed by the greats.
I think the forums I saw must have been run by people who got stiffed by a freelancer at some point or something, whereas on CMON there seems to be a genuine respect for everyone who\'s simply doing their best.
\'Decent hourly rate\' lollollollollol still laughing about that
Thanks for taking the time to reply, hopefully my curiosity will get back in it\'s box now
Couldn\'t agree more about the term \'pro painted\' on ebay. I know my user name on here probably makes me sound like an arrogant tw@t at first glance (it takes a while to get to know me & realise that this is in fact true), it\'s just the name I gave to the website etc. Although, I know full well I\'ll probably never reach the top 100 on here let alone the standards displayed by the greats.
I think the forums I saw must have been run by people who got stiffed by a freelancer at some point or something, whereas on CMON there seems to be a genuine respect for everyone who\'s simply doing their best.
\'Decent hourly rate\' lollollollollol still laughing about that
Thanks for taking the time to reply, hopefully my curiosity will get back in it\'s box now
Dragonsreach
Super Moderator
Originally posted by t_haye2
There is some animosity towards freelancers, but mostly from the staff of a certain miniature chain of stores we all know and love. I always get really weird looks from the Friar Lane staff when I reply \'it\'s for a client\' to their questions of \'you play *insert army of models purchased here* then, por is it for your boyfriend? lollollollollollollollollol Yep there is a certain amount of sexism in the hobby and Margo was subject to a lovely patronising comment at gamesday. I understand that she gave a very polite and sarcastic reply back. (Good for you Margo!)
As for freelancers; scum of the earth, aren\'t we. Prostituting talent for money we should all be starving in a garret somewhere, coughing our lungs up with consumption. While our patrons earn all the praise and money.
Cow girl??! COW GIRL???!! what? MOOOO! No I can\'t envision Tammy wearing a ten gallon hat and roping a steer on the range. lol
On the tourney thing: While you still get the painting points if the army is not painted by yourself, it makes you unable to win the \'Best Army\' award, but that assumes that the players are honest enough to notify the judges that they are using \'bought\' armies, ie by not signing the box saying \'I painted this army\'
U
U4-Welcome
Guest
Sound interesting, what was the comment and matching rapier-like demonstration of wit ?
Smoth
New member
I don\'t know. I am not a great painter but I am a freelancer from what I understand in this thread. People can hate me all they want. I do it because I hate seeing poorly painted minis on a table. And that kid.. the one who slaves and doesn\'t do a good job. I often sit down and help him/her. As for other freelance painters I have met... I have hated many of them because they over charge for something that is in my opinion sub-standard.
I have yet to be met with any kind of hate.
I have yet to be met with any kind of hate.
Many years ago, I made a living painting minis for other people, ran a business employing two full-time and two part-time painters, in fact. It wasn\'t what I would call a great living, but it paid my bills through college. I never experienced any serious animosity then, but I think it was because I was unfailingly honest about the quality of the work I would produce for a given amount of money, and told people up front what to expect.
I did have a certain Canadian Games Day winner contact me about painting an entire tourney army to GD standards for him. I turned him down, both because the amount of work required was staggering to contemplate, there was no way he would\'ve paid the amount of money it would\'ve cost, and I honestly did not consider myself up to the task of doing an entire army to that standard. Lastly, there was the ethical concern...
I did not mind selling my work, whoring out my brush, if you will. Still don\'t, though I don\'t do it for money these days. I did have an issue with the idea that this bloke was going to make tourney points off of my work though. Seemed vaguely less than up-front. Personally (were I a competent enough player to compete at that level), I would rather know that I won because of the abilities I possessed, not because part of my points were brought about by the strength of my wallet.
I would of course love to return to the halcyon days of college and be able to support myself with a brush and paintpots, but I have a wife and three kids now. It is enough to simply partake in an activity I enjoy for the sole purpose of my enjoyment. Oddly enough, I\'ve found that I enjoy it more when money is not involved.
I personally think the major motivation behind freelancer-hate is jealousy, either of talent or of economic reality. They\'re mad because you\'re better than they are, or because you\'re making money off of it when they\'re not. I\'m currently, neither, and I don\'t mind. One of these years I\'ll get the skills back up to speed.
Oh yeah, first post on CMON, so please forgive any social faux pas.
I did have a certain Canadian Games Day winner contact me about painting an entire tourney army to GD standards for him. I turned him down, both because the amount of work required was staggering to contemplate, there was no way he would\'ve paid the amount of money it would\'ve cost, and I honestly did not consider myself up to the task of doing an entire army to that standard. Lastly, there was the ethical concern...
I did not mind selling my work, whoring out my brush, if you will. Still don\'t, though I don\'t do it for money these days. I did have an issue with the idea that this bloke was going to make tourney points off of my work though. Seemed vaguely less than up-front. Personally (were I a competent enough player to compete at that level), I would rather know that I won because of the abilities I possessed, not because part of my points were brought about by the strength of my wallet.
I would of course love to return to the halcyon days of college and be able to support myself with a brush and paintpots, but I have a wife and three kids now. It is enough to simply partake in an activity I enjoy for the sole purpose of my enjoyment. Oddly enough, I\'ve found that I enjoy it more when money is not involved.
I personally think the major motivation behind freelancer-hate is jealousy, either of talent or of economic reality. They\'re mad because you\'re better than they are, or because you\'re making money off of it when they\'re not. I\'m currently, neither, and I don\'t mind. One of these years I\'ll get the skills back up to speed.
Oh yeah, first post on CMON, so please forgive any social faux pas.
Propaintjob
New member
Good to meet you Moonduck
Call me whatever you\'d like, I\'m pretty thick-skinned and many thanks for the gracious welcome!
As to basic sentence structure, I\'m afraid I\'m not actually good at that. Calling me verbose would be like calling Niagara Falls a \"bit of water\". I am, however, an absolutely abysmal typist, so expect to have the additional entertainment of creative typos. Fat fingers and all that.
and many thanks for the gracious welcome!As to basic sentence structure, I\'m afraid I\'m not actually good at that. Calling me verbose would be like calling Niagara Falls a \"bit of water\". I am, however, an absolutely abysmal typist, so expect to have the additional entertainment of creative typos. Fat fingers and all that.
I don\'t know how someone can hate freelance painters. The closest I have come to freelance painting was when I painted two minis for pay, both for friends. The first one, I offered it to a friend to represent an RPG character, and the other one was another friend\'s conversion who overheard what I said
I did it cheap of course, 5€ for 2 minis that would maybe reach a little over six here, and mainly took the money to renew my paint collection. I do paint minis for friends occasionally, but I do it for free. I also build some terrain and if anyone wants it, I usually give it away for the cost of the material.
Do these stories lead anywhere? Yes, in fact they do. I don\'t think I could be freelancing and seriously pay my bills from that. It\'s because of my skill, that actually doesn\'t matter as I have found out - you don\'t have to be good, you have to be better than the one employing you. And, not trying to boast, but it\'s true: It seems I am the best here in Herne, or at least one of the best. I just have no positive feelings about my paintjobs. I always see what\'s wrong with my minis, always think they look crappy, think \"Nobody would ever want to pay me for that\". And then I go to my local hobby shop and see some guys playing Warhammer 40K with minis that look like they had paint vomited over them and I think \"You HAVE to paint some minis for those guys. Decrappify them, so to speak.\"... my insecurity always holds me back.
So, freelancing also takes a lot of guts. I see \"pro-painted\" and \"very well painted\" models on eBay that have no shading or highlights whatsoever and basically are \"well painted\" because the paint stayed in the supposed areas. I could never say that my work is \"well painted\" because I don\'t think so. Should I ever finish the comissar and if gods helps me I will before I am out of university again I will say he\'s \"painted\". Full stop. Let them judge the quality by the picture. But you can\'t make a living by that. People dot want painted models, they want models that are \"pro painted\".... so, skill, guts and pride in your own work would be good for a freelancer. How can you hate people because they show those three characteristics?
I feel like I\'m ranting, maybe I should just stop here
I did it cheap of course, 5€ for 2 minis that would maybe reach a little over six here, and mainly took the money to renew my paint collection. I do paint minis for friends occasionally, but I do it for free. I also build some terrain and if anyone wants it, I usually give it away for the cost of the material.
Do these stories lead anywhere? Yes, in fact they do. I don\'t think I could be freelancing and seriously pay my bills from that. It\'s because of my skill, that actually doesn\'t matter as I have found out - you don\'t have to be good, you have to be better than the one employing you. And, not trying to boast, but it\'s true: It seems I am the best here in Herne, or at least one of the best. I just have no positive feelings about my paintjobs. I always see what\'s wrong with my minis, always think they look crappy, think \"Nobody would ever want to pay me for that\". And then I go to my local hobby shop and see some guys playing Warhammer 40K with minis that look like they had paint vomited over them and I think \"You HAVE to paint some minis for those guys. Decrappify them, so to speak.\"... my insecurity always holds me back.
So, freelancing also takes a lot of guts. I see \"pro-painted\" and \"very well painted\" models on eBay that have no shading or highlights whatsoever and basically are \"well painted\" because the paint stayed in the supposed areas. I could never say that my work is \"well painted\" because I don\'t think so. Should I ever finish the comissar and if gods helps me I will before I am out of university again I will say he\'s \"painted\". Full stop. Let them judge the quality by the picture. But you can\'t make a living by that. People dot want painted models, they want models that are \"pro painted\".... so, skill, guts and pride in your own work would be good for a freelancer. How can you hate people because they show those three characteristics?
I feel like I\'m ranting, maybe I should just stop here
As far as the tournament problem goes, I can see both sides of the arguement. I do agree that People who have bought their armies shouldn\'t be eligible for best army, and should only be entered in the best general, or whatever its called.
But, I know quite a few people who would get into the hobby except for the fact that they don\'t find the painting of the army enjoyable. They like the games, and that\'s cool. The problem is, unless these people by pre-painted models, they can\'t play in tournaments and so miss out on some of the competitve aspect.
But, I know quite a few people who would get into the hobby except for the fact that they don\'t find the painting of the army enjoyable. They like the games, and that\'s cool. The problem is, unless these people by pre-painted models, they can\'t play in tournaments and so miss out on some of the competitve aspect.
P
praetorian0_1
Guest
I\'ve actually heard people that sell minis put down painters- kinda self loathing if ya ask me. It is just a hobby for pete\'s sake. More power to the person that makes cash at it. Would you put down a guy that paints bird houses and sells them after he buys them from Lewiscrat pre-made. What he does is his business. Doesn\'t make much sence but, weeeeeeeeee, why not. Indulge that personal sence of entilttlement and negative spirit- you go right ahead and put down who ya like.lol
Seriously, if you were going to do something you want to do and would do it for free anyhow- then you make bucks at it... I\'d call that person pretty lucky. Income is sort of relative then, isn\'t it?
I\'m going to butcher an old Sicilian saying but...\"fati i faiti doi\"(sic): you do what you do, I\'ll do what I do; basically live and let live. Folks spent way too much time in other people\'s business these days.
Seriously, if you were going to do something you want to do and would do it for free anyhow- then you make bucks at it... I\'d call that person pretty lucky. Income is sort of relative then, isn\'t it?
I\'m going to butcher an old Sicilian saying but...\"fati i faiti doi\"(sic): you do what you do, I\'ll do what I do; basically live and let live. Folks spent way too much time in other people\'s business these days.
There is one solid problem with painting for money. You do not have control over the project. I had a fellow pay me very, very well to paint a Slaaneshi WFB army for him. He mails me the minis and I asked him for the colour scheme. His response? \"Oh, I don\'t know. How about Blue and yellow, with lots of gold?\". I tell him that those are not properly evocative colours for Slaanesh, and would look more like Tzeentch. His response to that was basically \"My money, my colours\".
So I start to paint his Tzeentch-looking army of Slaanesh. It\'s a big project, so I keep appraising him of the progress, sending him pics, etc. I keep asking if I can toss in some pastels, maybe a few decadent purples. Nope, blue, yellow, lots of gold. *Sigh*. So I send him the stuff, and his comment? \"Well, the minis are well-done and all, but the army doesn\'t look very Slaaneshi\". :flame:
I totally refused to repaint a single bloody thing.
On the same thought, I\'ve sold paint jobs that I told the person specifically to not tell anyone that I\'d painted the minis. Regular historical gamers are just not terribly picky around here when it comes to 15mm and smaller, and just want lots of minis with a few colours tossed somewhere near them. I can\'t blmae them all that much. Who wants to pay good money for a paint job on 500 6mm Napoleonics that you\'ll pull out once every 6 years? So I swallowed my pride, slapped pigment on \'em as fast as possible, and pleased the customer, the whole while feeling like a tawdry whore.
Sadly, I just had a friend give me money last night for some paintwork on his Mordheim stuff. I took it without thinking, out of habit. I\'m pimping my paintbrush again...
So I start to paint his Tzeentch-looking army of Slaanesh. It\'s a big project, so I keep appraising him of the progress, sending him pics, etc. I keep asking if I can toss in some pastels, maybe a few decadent purples. Nope, blue, yellow, lots of gold. *Sigh*. So I send him the stuff, and his comment? \"Well, the minis are well-done and all, but the army doesn\'t look very Slaaneshi\". :flame:
I totally refused to repaint a single bloody thing.
On the same thought, I\'ve sold paint jobs that I told the person specifically to not tell anyone that I\'d painted the minis. Regular historical gamers are just not terribly picky around here when it comes to 15mm and smaller, and just want lots of minis with a few colours tossed somewhere near them. I can\'t blmae them all that much. Who wants to pay good money for a paint job on 500 6mm Napoleonics that you\'ll pull out once every 6 years? So I swallowed my pride, slapped pigment on \'em as fast as possible, and pleased the customer, the whole while feeling like a tawdry whore.
Sadly, I just had a friend give me money last night for some paintwork on his Mordheim stuff. I took it without thinking, out of habit. I\'m pimping my paintbrush again...
ipaintminis
New member
pimping my paintbrush
HAHAH,
i can so see that as the name of a studio!
HAHAH,
i can so see that as the name of a studio!
W
Warworks
Guest
Some freelancers have such an attitude about their work that I\'m completely turned off by them. These people I\'m thinking of don\'t respect their clients, don\'t respect other painters, and don\'t respect anyone who runs the competitions they enter and get prizes from when they win. I\'ve only met a couple this bad, but I can see how it can leave a bad taste in someone\'s mouth. Some stories I\'ve heard from guys about what they did to their clients...especially the teenage clients! It makes my vision blur to think about someone cheating a kid for his toys.
Sorry. I\'m better now.
Umm, for the most part
Sorry. I\'m better now.
Umm, for the most part
T
t_haye2
Guest
Hmmm,I don\'t generally take on underage clients due to the fact that they\'re not responsible for the money they spend. in theory, if a parent or guardian would take me to court to claim the money back saying the kid took a irresponsible choice to hire me, I\'d not have a leg to stand on.
Hmmmmm....
Well I have done nothing but admire professional painters (freelancers) the whole time that I have been interested in the hobby. I have had to take time out from my painting to have a child and bring that child up. Only fairly recently picking up a paintbrush again. I want to become a freelance painter but am staggered by the competition, and I am very critical of my own work so this has hindered my progress because I am never happy or confident that I have done anything worthwhile. I have also had bad experience within in certain games store relating to my sex (why do most male gamers seem afraid of us women?) I have sat down in my local store for many hours helping out the kids with their painting yet still feel isolated in the predominatly male environment. I feel more tolerated than welcomed.
Anyway, I am now helping my husband with his painting and he has improved dramatically. I lack the confidence to freelance at the moment yet feel that this is definitely what I want to do. But with a lack of confidence and the competition I dont know if I am up to standard. But as for all you freelancers you have my respect and admiration for what you do.
Well I have done nothing but admire professional painters (freelancers) the whole time that I have been interested in the hobby. I have had to take time out from my painting to have a child and bring that child up. Only fairly recently picking up a paintbrush again. I want to become a freelance painter but am staggered by the competition, and I am very critical of my own work so this has hindered my progress because I am never happy or confident that I have done anything worthwhile. I have also had bad experience within in certain games store relating to my sex (why do most male gamers seem afraid of us women?) I have sat down in my local store for many hours helping out the kids with their painting yet still feel isolated in the predominatly male environment. I feel more tolerated than welcomed.
Anyway, I am now helping my husband with his painting and he has improved dramatically. I lack the confidence to freelance at the moment yet feel that this is definitely what I want to do. But with a lack of confidence and the competition I dont know if I am up to standard. But as for all you freelancers you have my respect and admiration for what you do.
