Impernouncable
New member
It\'s a recommendation not an edict.
A peculiarity about mini painting
- Thread starter DennisMech
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johnboyjjb
New member
Would you consider a doll art? How about teddy bears? It\'s something I would consider as a collectible. I don\'t consider it an art until you get free hand in there. That will be totally unique. Excessive detail gets in there too. Anything that will make somebody not remotely interested in the hobby stop and go 
! That is art.
! That is art.I take your point but...
I don\'t think general \'popularity\' resolves the dilemma...???
There is a lot of so-called \'high-art\' that just makes me want to lose my lunch.Originally posted by johnboyjjbAnything that will make somebody not remotely interested in the hobby stop and go
I don\'t think general \'popularity\' resolves the dilemma...???
craftsperson...
A few questions...
Is ego the only difference between a craftsman/woman and an artist?
Does an artist have to make money to qualify as one?
I don\'t know where I stand completely on this argument, but I do feel that some of the miniature work on this site qualifies as real art. Nerdy or not!!lollol
A few questions...
Is ego the only difference between a craftsman/woman and an artist?
Does an artist have to make money to qualify as one?
I don\'t know where I stand completely on this argument, but I do feel that some of the miniature work on this site qualifies as real art. Nerdy or not!!lollol
I appreciate your dilemma...
But, give me the title of \'craftsman/person\' any day.
I decided long ago that I am too much of a \'pleb\' to appreciate art, But nowadays I have sufficient letters after my name to be able to tell artists to go and \'paint\' themselves.
I always had this power of course, as do we all, we just need to exercise the damn thing and stop being misled by the people who consider themselves the \'Guardians of Art\".
But, give me the title of \'craftsman/person\' any day.
I decided long ago that I am too much of a \'pleb\' to appreciate art, But nowadays I have sufficient letters after my name to be able to tell artists to go and \'paint\' themselves.
I always had this power of course, as do we all, we just need to exercise the damn thing and stop being misled by the people who consider themselves the \'Guardians of Art\".
pop art
To me, the miniatures are not a whole lot
different than pop art Royal Doulton china
figurines. in fact I thought Jim Jackson\'s
recent auctions for the Confrontation
Red Lioness miniatures tried to mimic that
look. They do a run of 5000, similar to a
run of miniatures.
The popularity aspect of art is just that,
and more popularity than art, to me. If
your art is great, and you can acheive status and recognition within your social group, it\'s art. Its your acceptability within
the clique that makes it art, otherwise its
unfashionable (or nerdy, as pointed out).
A good example is the composer Salieri
(who you say?) from the movie Amadeus.
Its only Mozart who is remembered today.
I\'ve been to all kinds of art museums in Italy, there are hundreds of contemporaries
of Da Vinci (who to me is more a scientist
and inventor , least and lastly a painter) its the same thing. We only remember the Mona Lisa etc, other great works of the period by more skilled painters are
forgotten.
I believe the miniatures are art, but as in
the examples above, have minimal to no
chance of acceptance with the cronies of today\'s art establishment.
To me, the miniatures are not a whole lot
different than pop art Royal Doulton china
figurines. in fact I thought Jim Jackson\'s
recent auctions for the Confrontation
Red Lioness miniatures tried to mimic that
look. They do a run of 5000, similar to a
run of miniatures.
The popularity aspect of art is just that,
and more popularity than art, to me. If
your art is great, and you can acheive status and recognition within your social group, it\'s art. Its your acceptability within
the clique that makes it art, otherwise its
unfashionable (or nerdy, as pointed out).
A good example is the composer Salieri
(who you say?) from the movie Amadeus.
Its only Mozart who is remembered today.
I\'ve been to all kinds of art museums in Italy, there are hundreds of contemporaries
of Da Vinci (who to me is more a scientist
and inventor , least and lastly a painter) its the same thing. We only remember the Mona Lisa etc, other great works of the period by more skilled painters are
forgotten.
I believe the miniatures are art, but as in
the examples above, have minimal to no
chance of acceptance with the cronies of today\'s art establishment.
I absolutely agree....
Yeah, I also would very much prefer the title of \'craftsman\' to that of \'artist\'.
This whole thread reminds me of a news story I once saw, a few years back.
An art critic somewhere had raved about a particular work of new art and how it displayed all the characteristics of a \'masterpiece\'. He and his fellow artisians went on and on about it.
When they showed the art, I liked it, but being a \'layman\' couldn\'t \'see\' it for what it was being discussed as. It just looked like a gob of interesting colors.
Well about 3/4 way through the story, they show the artist. A six year old girl, who painted the \'masterpiece\' with some cheap paints. I can\'t remember all the details, but some hoaxters had put this in with an \'up and comings\' portfolio.
So, when the art critic finds out it is a 6 year old, and how she could whip another masterpiece up in no time, do you think the guy backed down from his view?
No, without skipping a beat, he proceeds to say how this young girl\'s vision and skills are on par with a modern day \"mozart\".
Who knows, maybe he is right? I just saw a gob of interesting colors.
I guess I can qualify for an art barbarian also.....
Yeah, I also would very much prefer the title of \'craftsman\' to that of \'artist\'.
This whole thread reminds me of a news story I once saw, a few years back.
An art critic somewhere had raved about a particular work of new art and how it displayed all the characteristics of a \'masterpiece\'. He and his fellow artisians went on and on about it.
When they showed the art, I liked it, but being a \'layman\' couldn\'t \'see\' it for what it was being discussed as. It just looked like a gob of interesting colors.
Well about 3/4 way through the story, they show the artist. A six year old girl, who painted the \'masterpiece\' with some cheap paints. I can\'t remember all the details, but some hoaxters had put this in with an \'up and comings\' portfolio.
So, when the art critic finds out it is a 6 year old, and how she could whip another masterpiece up in no time, do you think the guy backed down from his view?
No, without skipping a beat, he proceeds to say how this young girl\'s vision and skills are on par with a modern day \"mozart\".
Who knows, maybe he is right? I just saw a gob of interesting colors.
I guess I can qualify for an art barbarian also.....
This touches upon the term \"selling out\"... Why is there this general consensus among artists that true art cannot make money? People who product \"craft\" often make a living from their products (hence the term \"skilled craftsman\") but are generally seen as separated from artists for this very reason of making enough product to sell and support themselves.
Artists, on the other hand, fight tooth and nail (and starvation) for AGES before they finally catch a break. But the second their art turns a profit, they are often seen by their peers as having \"sold out\".
I just don\'t understand why the instant you finally get your work in a gallery that it is instantly diminished in terms of its artistic merit. Is the ideal (or pure, etc.) form of art only able to sustain itself when it is separate from profit? Thusly, is the craft is separate from art because there is the expectation of profit somewhere present within the making? And what, then, would this mean if someone created a mini with the expectation of never selling it for profit?
(Goes back to her polemic hole for an hour.)
- Otter
\"Never send a ferret to do a weasel\'s work.\"
Flashman14
New member
haaa . . that\'s very funny . . . If there were no guardians of art that piece really would be considered a masterpiece!
But in all seriousness I think there has to be a standard as to what constitutes art. If \"anything goes\" then you really lose the meaning and power of what good art can do.
The only thing universal to nearly all fine art is that it communicates something to the viewer/listener. What that is specifically, varies, can be easily accessible or not and open to interpretation but the fact that it means something other than what it is elevates it to art.
By this definition then the kids work IS art in that the kid communicated in a way that has meaning to him. Our own interpretations may vary of course. (I didn\'t see the story so I can\'t say for certain that\'s true but I know a lot of little kids and they are always drawing something that bears no resemblance to it\'s real-life counterpart). But this is all a question of skill not intent.
Bad art exists along with good art too of course and that I won\'t bother debating that as it is much more subjective than \"what is art\".
But in all seriousness I think there has to be a standard as to what constitutes art. If \"anything goes\" then you really lose the meaning and power of what good art can do.
The only thing universal to nearly all fine art is that it communicates something to the viewer/listener. What that is specifically, varies, can be easily accessible or not and open to interpretation but the fact that it means something other than what it is elevates it to art.
By this definition then the kids work IS art in that the kid communicated in a way that has meaning to him. Our own interpretations may vary of course. (I didn\'t see the story so I can\'t say for certain that\'s true but I know a lot of little kids and they are always drawing something that bears no resemblance to it\'s real-life counterpart). But this is all a question of skill not intent.
Bad art exists along with good art too of course and that I won\'t bother debating that as it is much more subjective than \"what is art\".
Flashman14
New member
oh . . and commercial interests have no bearing on what constitues art.
It could speak to the quality of said art but other than that money can\'t be a defining characteristic - hasn\'t been true throughout history and isn\'t true now . . .
It could speak to the quality of said art but other than that money can\'t be a defining characteristic - hasn\'t been true throughout history and isn\'t true now . . .
farseerlum
New member
ooo this is getting intersting..
i think impernouncable is right in that minis arent\' \"fine art\" and never will be.
if they were to be any class of art it would be the decorative kind.
which means in the form Vs function argument its function would be to look pretty.
i can assure you bobby wongs gladiator mini would be a purely decorative peice in my home.
however i have always looked at it the other way round.
is jen haley an artist. yes of course only a yob would disaagree.
by definition anything she produces is art.
and i do belive that some miniatures being produced painted to stellar levels can and do evoke just as much emotional response as the mona lisa.
i should point out that once you photgraph your miniature you have enterd the realm of photographic art.
which has well established art cred.
i think impernouncable is right in that minis arent\' \"fine art\" and never will be.
if they were to be any class of art it would be the decorative kind.
which means in the form Vs function argument its function would be to look pretty.
i can assure you bobby wongs gladiator mini would be a purely decorative peice in my home.
however i have always looked at it the other way round.
is jen haley an artist. yes of course only a yob would disaagree.
by definition anything she produces is art.
and i do belive that some miniatures being produced painted to stellar levels can and do evoke just as much emotional response as the mona lisa.
i should point out that once you photgraph your miniature you have enterd the realm of photographic art.
which has well established art cred.
Bah, lets just sit back fer about, say, 50-100 years. Y\'know, innovate, advance the ummm....art, profession, whatever. I think this hobby just needs a little time to settle in. Like a fine wine, it needs to age to fully realize it\'s potential. I think then we (well, we might be dead) will need to step back and look at the hobby, not now. It\'s in it\'s infancy, and hey, I don\'t really mind it. I entered this \"hobby\" knowing it wouldn\'t exactly garner the respect and admiration of my classmates (just some taunting) I wasn\'t really looking to place my mini\'s in a museum. I wanted to enjoy them, game with them, etc.
G
GarnetJubilee
Guest
Originally posted by Vidja
You\'ll probably think I\'m too cynical, but... if you paint a mini and give it to a friend for his birthday, then yours is an hobby. If you sell it for 15 bucks, then it\'s a craft. If you make 500 $ out of it, then it\'s art.
No matter how many modern art museums I visit (or have visited), I still cannot bring myself to call that large canvas of red \"art,\" no matter how many millions of dollars some bored dilletante paid for the darn thing.
People are willing to pay oodles of money for stupid things (GW, anyone?). Or stupid amounts of money for things that have had good hype, so I really don\'t think that the people with large pocket books and poor (easily influenced) taste should be allowed to dictate what is and is not art.
Ultimately, it\'s the artistic community that defines what is and is not art, imo. Regardless of what the unpaint--I mean, unwashed masses think.. lol
paintwidow
New member
This is a teensy weensy off topic, but it\'s late sooooo.....I went to a special art exhibit at a museum once and there was this one piece in the brochure that I really wanted to see. It was Michael the Archangel, about 24 inches tall, and plated with gold. This guy looked like he was ready to kick some butt. Had his sword raised high and every line of him screamed \"Butt-kicking for God!\" (I\'ve got a thing for warrior angels, which is why I can\'t wait for the new Reaper angel, see the CMON Shop Update thread.) But there was this man, and I have never smelled anything like this before. He couldn\'t have taken a shower, or bath, for a least a month, and I\'m not exagerrating. His T-shirt was white with that grimy look that can only be achieved by wearing the same clothes for weeks on end (come to think of it, this would be a good look for minis in an army
). Anyway, where did he park himself? Smack dab in front of shining, glowing, wonderful Michael. And he stayed there for an hour. We went back right before we were ready to leave, and he was still there. There was a lot of people there, we were crammed in the little connected rooms like cattle, and this guy literally had a 10 foot radius circle of clear space all the way around him. And the people closest to him obviously didn\'t want to be there long. So, needless to say, not wanting to puke in the museum, the closest I got to Michael was about 20 feet away. Sigh, unwashed masses indeed.Some people might call that reaction snobnosed or stuckup. I on the other hand would have taken a picture of the guy in front of the image and probably have sold it by now.
Miniatures are like that plated gold angel painting, but in a more full veiw. Don\'t tell me you looked at that visiage of the angel and didn\'t wish you could have been there to see it from every angle.
Miniature give you this oportunity. While a life size version would be more suitable not all of us have the money for something like that. Not to mention the fact that clasical sculptures seem to have slightly less realistic detail than minis (even though sculptures are life size).
After all that asthetic goodness, you come down to the craftsmanship. Minis are harder to sculpt than life size sculptures (nothing against michelangelo). After sculpting it you still have to paint it. So minis combine bothe painting and sculpting techniques but on a much smaller (and therefore harder) scale.:bouncy:
Miniatures are like that plated gold angel painting, but in a more full veiw. Don\'t tell me you looked at that visiage of the angel and didn\'t wish you could have been there to see it from every angle.
Miniature give you this oportunity. While a life size version would be more suitable not all of us have the money for something like that. Not to mention the fact that clasical sculptures seem to have slightly less realistic detail than minis (even though sculptures are life size).
After all that asthetic goodness, you come down to the craftsmanship. Minis are harder to sculpt than life size sculptures (nothing against michelangelo). After sculpting it you still have to paint it. So minis combine bothe painting and sculpting techniques but on a much smaller (and therefore harder) scale.:bouncy:
abstracity
New member
So....
If I decide to try to convey some emotion in my miniatures do I suddenly become elevated to the vaunted position of artist?
Bah! It\'s in the eye of the beholder, personally I don\'t care if everyone on the street considers what I do art...I know that some of them do. And my business cards say I\'m an artist so I must be, no?
All that aside, I don\'t know why people have such difficulty believing that this stuff might one day end up in a museum... I\'ve seen displays at museums that contain painted toy soldiers and the like...and let me tell you, the mini\'s I\'ve seen in museums to this point have all looked like complete ass. I\'l not be too surprised if something ends up in a museum in the not too distant future.
Peace.
If I decide to try to convey some emotion in my miniatures do I suddenly become elevated to the vaunted position of artist?
Bah! It\'s in the eye of the beholder, personally I don\'t care if everyone on the street considers what I do art...I know that some of them do. And my business cards say I\'m an artist so I must be, no?
All that aside, I don\'t know why people have such difficulty believing that this stuff might one day end up in a museum... I\'ve seen displays at museums that contain painted toy soldiers and the like...and let me tell you, the mini\'s I\'ve seen in museums to this point have all looked like complete ass. I\'l not be too surprised if something ends up in a museum in the not too distant future.
Peace.
