Why chiks in fantasy are half/completely naked???

[Sanitarium]

Ok, call me a freak, gay or femminist, but I never understood why chiks in fantasy always have to be half naked and gracile, while they are equipped as well as males and usually stronger than most of existing male counterparts (ok, we have to consider also that women in fantasy are a rare sight and those that appear are usually some kind of heroeines that can put down an ogre regardels the fact that the ogre weights 20 times more than they do).

Ok, there are cases when it\'s backed up with fluff (like for GW dark elf wich elves, who are supposed to be beatiful SMBD nimphos, that most perverts would love to serve as sex toys), but still in most cases it\'s completely irrational.

For instance if you take any japanize manga (not hentai), there are no bad looking chiks (I mean, all of them are beadable at least), no fat wemen and all of them, from high priestesses to some women knights wear clothing/armour that leaves leggs, torso, decolte and arms uncovered (for the joy of all us perverts), but it\'s completely idiotic from a safety/fighting practicity (ok, those beatifully ornated huge shoulder plates won\'t help you much if I stabb you in your lovely exposed breasts or I cut off one of you beatiful long legs, that look out from under your mini skirt...).

All we can ratianally deduce from all this is that chiks in fantasy count on fighting some horny, unsatisfied orks that didn\'t see a woman for the last 30 years and that consequently will be so busy drooling all over the place to give them the chance to finish their pityfull and lonely lives (wich basically is a reasonable tactic for GW deamonettes only).
What would our hot non demonic heroines do if they\'d have to fight with a horde of gay ogres????!!!!

Well, actually I\'m a pervert too and so far I\'m etherosexsual, but still, sex can\'t be the leading movent in everything (we\'re war gamers after all-you have a whole bunch of japanize hentai to drool over good looking and uncovered fantasy chiks, like Midnight panter, Words worth and Dragon pink).

So, am I the only one thinking it this way? (come out female wargamers, this is your chance show what you\'ve got)

 

[bayrodney]

Well IMHO i dont mind
Its not all female models that are half naked, mainly the ones that are backed up by fluff.
I wouldn\'t worry about it.
If you dont like it, use a lil green stuff to \'cover it up\'.

 

[Pestie]

\'cos no one wants fat mingers

 

[Sonnyslayer]

1: Its hot..
2:Most of the wargamers are men.. so it sells
3: its fantasy
4: still hot..

 

[Grumb]

Originally posted by Sonnyslayer
1: Its hot..
2:Most of the wargamers are men.. so it sells
3: its fantasy
4: still hot..

That pretty much sums it up doesn\'t it....lol

 

[Modderrhu]

Not strict fantasy, but consider the Sisters of Battle. They have armour aplenty. There are a couple of female paladin sculpts that are quite well covered with armour too, so it\'s not like all fantasy females are scantily clad bints. Thinking about it, there is certainly a fair number of well clothed female sculpts.

The idea I always had was that lithe females are just so much harder to hit than armour-laden males. Relying on subtlety, speed and agility to avoid a bashing, rather than wading into the middle of a battle, hoping that no-one has a magic +3 sword that will cleave through your magic +1 armour.

So that\'s my take on it, agility and speed vs. brute force and ignorance.

 

[Sanitarium]

Ok, points taken:

-There are also models that are reasonably dressed (sisters of battle and some reaper female paladins)-however I meant chiks in fantasy in general (not only miniatures, but books and comix too-maybe it wasn\'t clear in the first post)

- Chiks in fantasy rely on agility and speed-fair enought, however in duels represented on comix or books between our agile \'undressed\' heroines and the uber bad guy they absorb quite some punishment (blows that when miss the female blow up a car, demolish a wall or even palace and kill 30-50 file and rank male troopers, while when it hits the \'heroine\' she make some jumps from one wall to the other and go on fighting as if nothing happened...) as if they would be made out of adamantium (wich is true only for Emma Frost and She-Hulk, from the Marvel comics).
Another example of this could be the last Final fantasy animated movie (Avendant children) where Tifa (ok, some of you know her from the videogame too) gets a punch (that in other scenes is enought to take down walls and marble pillars) in the face, is thrown against a wall (after being hurled around against desks and pillars) and used as mace to destroy one of the main pillars and just gracely lands on the floor, grinns for a moment and goes on asskikking even better than before taking all those hits (ok, in the end she looses and fades out, but that\'s only after getting a force powered punch in the chest and breaking another pillar with the fall)

- Males are horny maniacs by default (ok, I overstated it a bit, but it sums Grums\' point, I think)-Ok, that confirms that sex is indeed a leading element in every aspect of our society, doesn\'t it?

So basically chiks are supposed to be the uber fast/agile warriors in fantasy, but still they\'re more though than a dwarven lord, without the beard and armour-actually half naked, because males tend to use organs other than brains when it comes to buy stuff (refrasing and exagerating (for humor sake) Grums point)

Any other opinion???

 

[NecroN]

A theory.

Most fantasy settings have a male dominated society where females do not hold any position of power, and often hold no realy position at all other then caretaker (of hearth and home).

The female hero is the rare exception to this norm and is often put into situations no other female would ever be in (and often riduled by the male society for being involved).

Due to this the female has to make do with what is avalialbe to her in a male dominated world. Thus any equipment must be self made or purchased off a male. A male who most likely thinks that women in chain mail bikinis are hot.

Thus the reason they dress that way is due to society and the avaliablity of \'full plate for women\'.

Also perhaps that is the only way they can fit in in such a society. A male dominated society doesn\'t want some huge bruser female to be better then their best night, but if a dashing beautiful princess bests him, that is acceptable.

Just some random thoughts on the why background wise.

The why in reality: it sells and it\'s what is expected. The early fantasy writers and artists set a preciedent and it;s what is expected now.

 

[vincegamer]

In early fantasy, women were only victims to be rescued.
Even when women were rescuers, they did it with trickery or seduction rather than force (see R.E.Howard\'s \"Hour of the Dragon\").

Seduction was seen as the woman\'s craft. Only later did women become warrior figures (though the amazons of Greek myth may be the precedent).
When they became warriors, they had to have warrior qualities - those toughness examples you give would happen to your male heroes too. Men don\'t need armor all the time either, look at early comics like Doc Savage or the Shadow.
They did not, however, give up their seduction power.

Now, I agree it\'s gotten extreme. Video games are another example. I hate when characters get felled with swords then get back up.
I used to play Soul Caliber. I liked the character Taki. She had a move where she\'d grab the opponent from behind, and draw her knife across his throat, and he\'d collapse to the ground - but get back up! Excuse me, your throat\'s just been slit! you\'re dead!

I liked Taki because I could win with her without ever using her sword. She could kick and throw her opponents to defeat. I\'d just use the knife thing as my last move - he wouldn\'t get up and I could get into the game better.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Its simple..two words...

SEX SELLS

Nothing more nothing less.. its a male driven industry. Yes women are becoming more and more involved and products are being catered in their direction but still if you want to see products..you give the consumer what they want.

Years ago when I worked for Ral Partha we use to have a table top display rack that we would put only Ral Partha female miniatures on with a sign on it \"Women for Sale\" sure we got complaints by women at every show.. but we explained that every figure on the rack was indeed an woman and that they were for sale. Useually most bought at least one and we never went home at the end of a show with a full rack and in most cases we restocked it many many times.

 

[EricJ]

hmm, seems to me most fantasy men miniatures tend to be half naked as well

 

[tzor]

I think in general this can be overanalyzed to death. But I think there a lot of simple reasons why you see a whole lot of half/full naked and scantly clad women in fantasy art and models.

First of all, all the good artists have had proper training, and that includes a whole lot of time trying to sketch nudes. I think it is obvious to a casual observer that women in general tend to have more curves than men. On the other hand, women\'s clothes tend to want to eliminate as many curves as they tend to accentuate. Consider that there are shoulder pads on many women\'s jackets to elimiate the natural curve of the shoulder. Armor also has that feature as well.

When it comes to minis, lots of curves and lots of flesh means more opportunities for shading and highlights. Consider the recent nude by Hasselfree, Mary. Aside from the fact that she is 50mm and completely nude, the biggest thing is that she is not the typical anorexic model but has ... curves ... otherwise called a modest amount of fat.

What occasionally gets me is the really odd stuff, for example something I call an \"anti bra.\" A covering over the top of the breast leaving the bottom exposed. I don\'t even want to know how those things work. Suction cups? Glue?

My collection of minis has only a very small portion with half naked women. One of those figures \"My Hero\" also has a half naked man beside her. Two of them are from a culture which did not support armor and which generally accepted topless women. One is a fantasy football mini, and yes that\'s pure fantasy!

Yes the \"chainmail\" bicini is silly. Yes, Fredricks of Hollywood sells the chainmail bicini ... I kid you not. Yes it sells. But it\'s not the only kid on the block and there is just as many full plate wearing ladies as there are half naked ones.

 

[Spacemunkie]

Boris Vallejo has a lot to answer for.....

As does Chris Achilleos.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Two words...tit and illation.

I don\'t want no frumpy bint sprawled on my crappy fantasy literature!

Primeval is probably a fan though, the barbarian that he is lol

 

[Primeval]

Originally posted by reverend
Two words...tit and illation.

I don\'t want no frumpy bint sprawled on my crappy fantasy literature!

Primeval is probably a fan though, the barbarian that he is lol

Actually, this argument went on a bit amongst we barbarian types when the new Red Sonja comic came out. And in the comic she even gives reasons for being so (un)attired, and they work for her. My personal opinion on the whole thing is I got tired of psuedo-intellectual ramblings by people who can\'t seem to embrace all facets of their being and admit they LIKE sex, and walked away from the discussion....

Figured I had to at least throw something out there since I was summoned by the Rev

EDIT: How did I miss that - nice job citing REH there vincegamer!

 

[Frustrated Father]

Heh, I had to laugh when I read this, especially after looking over a green that we have in sculpting right now that is bound to upset some one here.



Seriously though, it is all about fantasy and yes, you could try and say their breasts are hanging out to distract the individuals they are fighting or to give them that extra bit of speed, but the honest truth is, sex sells, and really well.

That being said, I think something tasteful is all well and good, its the lewd stuff that you just have to shake your head at (hentia or whatever that stuff is) but then again, it sells, or it wouldn\'t be there.

Most painters, wargamers, video game enthusiasts, manga and animation and even porno watching folks are male. Simple.

 

[Avelorn]

This is a good topic, as it is allways worth reflecting about these very real issues with this hobby. Cultural and ethnic portrayals and how that is related to our history is also very interesting.

There is alot to say about this, and I think there is always the risk of everyone going very defensive and trying to defend something not worth of defending. I\'ve been in that position myself in a discussion of my precious lotr. He just said \"don\'t go there\" and I realised that he was right. I think you will find it very hard to explain by anything other than relating to the history, society and culture we have all been brought up with.

I think the best thing we can do about it is discussing and reflecting about these facts. Especially concerning that the consumers often are kids and that we all do take part of creating their ideals. But being a feminist doesn\'t mean not being interested in female or male bodies.. or sex. And both personally and intellectually I much prefer the halfnude female hero before the halfnude passive spectator.

Cheers.

 

[Spacemunkie]

Originally posted by Pestie
\'cos no one wants fat mingers

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by Primeval

Figured I had to at least throw something out there since I was summoned by the Rev

I pictured you grappling with one of our scantily clad subject ladies as I typed. Am I right?

 

[mud duck]

I think that most of the reasons have been noted here. But to recap and sound (hopefully) like I know what I\'m talking about here it goes. 1 Sex sells. 2 to parafrace the artist that draws Groo the Wander (cann\'t think or spell his name offhand) there are two types of woman in comics pretty, big breasted ones, and ugly ones. It\'s expeced. 3 a woman in full plate, mini wise would look greatly like a man. So whats the point of painting that model? 4 women in fantisy are expected to use hit and run tatics and not the bash bash bash tatic, so less armour, more speed and moblity. 5 and lastly the less area the armour covers, the higher the armour class. mind you this only works on females and in some cases really buff males, think Conan. my two coppers