What am i doing wrong?

[zombiepaints]

What am i doing wrong that im not getting very high marks on the voting page? this is a piece i recentlly finished and posted http://www.coolminiornot.com/273997
what things do i need to work on the most and what things will help me to be a better painter? i have only been painting about 6 months, so i know i do need to improve and keep practicing i want to make sure that my efforts arent in vain, and i dont continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[funnymouth]

Nothing wrong at all. I gave it a 6. Voting on cmon has taken an ugly turn, I'm afraid. I submitted a mini yesterday that is currently getting a 4.8, my worst score of all time. A similar group, painted identically, scored 5.8 two years ago, and yet another identical group scored above 6 four years ago. Tt is no longer tt. I actually laughed when I looked at the scores in the gallery this week. It's so ridiculous it's become a joke.
To be perfectly honest, if it werent for the great feeback I (sometimes) get on the forums I would have already abandoned cmon. In the future I'll probably host my image at photobucket or wamp - I don't want votes, just comments.

 

[GraveRisen]

One thing I can see immediately is the fur around he sleeves/down the coat/around the hat. It looks.... well, your fur can use some work.

Always ALWAYS start with a dark color and go to a lighter color (until you start to get into some really advanced techniques. So in this case start with a medium brown base and work up to white/offwhite.

I would also paint both of his boots the same colors. As well as work on your metallics. The axe doesn't really have much depth to it and just looks kinda rough as is.

 

[PegaZus]

Took at look at the figure, and the first issue I could see is that the beard and chest sort of blend into each other. There's not enough contrast/shading/color to separate easily. It also seems to be quite glossy in that area.

Other issues: The fur lining of the coat seems a little odd color wise, what with gold and white together. The splatters seem a bit random and all over; maybe having them in a more concentrated area might make them congeal better with the rest of the figure. The "skate ax" blade appears to be stone. If that's what you were going for, great. Unfortunately, it probably would have worked a lot better as a more metal like color there.

Digging into more subtle areas, the fingernails look like they are too much of contrast with the fingers. It almost looks like he painted them. The wood handle looks a little lifeless and mono-color; maybe a bit more shading or a wash on that would help it. The boots are a bit like the handle, where they're more or less a single color. Maybe a darker brown or a black would pot them a bit. Maybe some wet or snow on the one on his foot might help add some interest there. The other foot seems odd as well. Is he supposed to have a sock with no toes in it? Or did he slice his toes off?

But here's your biggest problem:

The mini.

Sorry, but that's not an attractive mini to start with, so that isn't your fault. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a full point higher painting the same colors on a different mini. Something about it is just "off" to me. He's a bit of an ugly mug, but not in the "good n' ugly" sense. It seems sculpted wrong. Maybe someone else can put my finger on it better. Maybe it would look better with a big ol' stogy in his mouth. And you may have squeaked a bit more points out of people if they weren't sick of snow this deep into winter.

The good? The picture is clear and in focus, so no issues there. The coat base color is spot on, and I personally think that's the best thing on the mini. The base is rather nice, albeit a bit plain. Do like the bird tracks in the back (not sure that you did that or it was part of the sculpt).

Conclusion? Take the score you've got and add 1 to it to account for the bad sculpt. Should make you feel a bit better about it. And at a 5.6, that's not a terrible score for it.

 

[funnymouth]

So those make the mini worthy of a score less than 5? Bullshit. He has room for Improvement, sure, but we are talking apples and oranges between the score he has and the score he deserves.

 

[GraveRisen]

So those make the mini worthy of a score less than 5? Bullshit. He has room for Improvement, sure, but we are talking apples and oranges between the score he has and the score he deserves.

he just outlined 4 paragraphs of areas the mini could be improved and detailed why it got the score it did. I also entirely agree on the mini itself. it's a very, very sub-standard sculpt. More than anything else, nothong "pops" on the mini. there's nothing to make you say "oh wow" and vote it up. Again, this is partially due to the sculpt and partially to do with the lack of contrast and definition.

 

[funnymouth]

Your right, it should be a space marine. Those things are AMAZING sculpts. Oh, wait.....
I'd hardly call a 5-6 "voting it up" by any standard. To me those scores are appropriate for virtually any model demonstrating good brush control, reasonable composition, and the concept of hilighting.

 

[TrystanGST]

5 is tabletop quality, according to the guide at the top of each voting page. Which is right where I think this mini sits. I won't get into the specifics, as PegaZus gave plenty to chew on, but personally I rarely score anything above an 8, unless it's converted/and or sculpted/and or lots of freehand. And that's on top of an excellent paint job. Basing helps too. The way i see it, there should be very few things voted 9 or 10, as that is the top of the scale. Most of my votes fall in the 5 to 7 range.

 

[Garshnak]

You sound a little bitter there, funnymouth. Perhaps you're taking the voting system a little bit too seriously. Ever heard about the validity of internet polls? It's the same thing here, you can't entirely trust the result because there's factors involved that don't have anything to do with the quality of the sculpt or the paintjob. Sure it is a rough estimate, but people tend to either vote high or low and rarely mediate or put actual thought in an appropiate rating. So it sucks or it rocks. Both are equally bad, I dislike the harsh downvoting of okay minis just as much as the blind upvoting and stream of 10s that some of the better minis get, just because they can't do better themselves or see anything wrong with it.
And that's the whole crux of it, people vote relative to their own (percieved, mind you) skill level and how critical they are (by mood or lifestyle).

tldr; Lighten up, don't take ratings too seriously. Keep it real.

Now back to the guy who started the thread, you're doing fine for just 6 months, really. I did much worse. It takes time and effort. The more time and effort you put in your minis the more you'll get out of it. And that's important, it has to be fun for you if you're doing this to please other people, you might want to reconsider things because I can assure you that won't last very long and doesn't make for a happy life.
Just keep at it, read some articles on all the basic techniques (you can never practice the basics enough, since they're most important!), like layering, blending, colour choice. There's plenty of articles around here on CMON and helpful people. Learn to understand how it works, art principles and you'll see mistakes yourself (though there's a risk to become too self critical, but don't let that go to your head)
And you'll find yourself improving over time.

And the sculpt isn't entirely bad btw, it has some potential. But it's not the easiest to make it look really nice I must admit.

 

[funnymouth]

Bitter? Nah. I have a few 8s in my gallery, and I know what it takes to please CMON voters. I'd rather please myself, but a harsh score can still hurt. Jaded? Certainly. This guy is coming to us asking " what did I do wrong" instead of "what can I do better" because the community has told him his work is "not good" as opposed to "tabletop quality." " not good" should have deep, inherent flaws, beyond model choice, a lil overpainting and basic techniques.
Post your first mini (after 9 years) and tell me it doesn't burn a little when people say it isn't good without a word of explanation.

 

[PegaZus]

Your right, it should be a space marine. Those things are AMAZING sculpts. Oh, wait.....

Now don't get me wrong. I AGREE that it's not fair that because it isn't a space marine it didn't rate higher. That's just a fact of what happens with the voting community. I consider it an utter embarrassment that for a long time one of my highest scoring minis was a f'n spore from the basic starter kit. I pored my heart into others that didn't get much higher.

And I wasn't trying to just point out what was "wrong", but listing as to why others may have dinged it down, and what could be done better. All just a progression in the Wonderful World of Minis that most of us are traveling through.

So zombiepaints, that's what I saw that could have been some reason for the low score. Not being a space marine unfortunately could lead to a lower score. Ya just shake your head and have to laugh at what happens sometimes and continue to make the best paint job you can.

Visit the forums more, and get constant feedback. Besides, we're all a fun bunch to hang out with. But I'd wear disposable clothing should you tread into the Freak Bar.

 

[zombiepaints]

Thank you all very much for the input. it is really appreciated. you have given me a good point to start improvements from. its hard to know where to start when you get a low score on the voting page and noone posts any comments so that i know what needs improvement.

pegaZus, "The other foot seems odd as well. Is he supposed to have a sock with no toes in it? Or did he slice his toes off?"
to answer he is missing a boot and his toe is poking out of his sock. in retrospect this is something i shouldve got a detail shot of possibly. i love the idea of a big ol stogy I may have to go back and add one.

Garshnak, you are 100% right you cant do it to please others but do it because its enjoyable. i do really enjoy painting. i was feeling a bit discouraged though that i scored lower than a 5 on a piece that i thought wouldve been closer to 6 as i feel this piece is much better than the one i did that scored over 6 less than a month ago.

Again thank you all for the help and advice may your hands stay steady and brushes always true

 

[zombiepaints]

PegaZus, I want you to know that i didnt take your post as list of things that are "wrong". i appreciated the way you broke evrything down. I think for the next project.... a space marine!!! lol actually i am debating between a frost giant and crazy pete the prospector from reaper. thanks again

 

[funnymouth]

yeah, im sorry i didnt give you any, you know, constructive feedback. my phone replies are pretty criptic too, as i cant be bothered to correct the awful autocorrect (ryegrass, lol) =). im just kinda stewing today and my reply was kneejerk in response to a rash of underscored models ive seen. i interpreted your remarks as somewhat more disparaging than you intended, i fear. loads of good advice up there, and for my part ill suggest you stay involved with the forums in the form of a wip of your next project, and that you go over the articles section "with a fine toothed comb."

 

[BPI]

5 from me. Not a 4 as the presentation is good. Not a 6, as minor touch-ups required & I don't like the mini.

Id suggest getting back in with the flesh paint to smooth over the rough shading, particularly on the belly. Try to darken his pupils, looks as though the brush hit the right spot but the paint was a bit thin. Did you drybrush yellow over the white fur? If so, I'd suggest using the colours the other way around next time The flesh shading around the axe hand has carried onto the haft, just run your yellow/brown wood colour back up arouynd his thumb & fingers to define the two areas more clearly (or jam some Devlan Mud in there to brown the red).

Snow. Did you paint the base pale blue & then scatter Bicarb on the top? Try mixing bicarb with PVA to form a thick paste, add tiny amount of white paint. Smear over top of all snow areas.. Then scatter with bicarb before it dries. Easy to do & worth a go to see if you like the effect.

Most of it's just neatening up. Harder to see in real life but with nice big pics you've got your reference material sorted.

I'm probably just repeating advice from above but that's my take

Also, I see TT in the Gallery as 4-6 but really don't like the descriptions for the lower scores. Instead of Not Good or Crap or whatever they say, I'd prefer more encouraging remarks.

Cheers, B.

 

[zombiepaints]

what is TT?

 

[Garshnak]

what is TT?

TableTop quality. Neat 'n good colours, but nothing special up close, works best when viewed from a distance, like atop a table.

 

[QuietiManes]

Basically, the bare minimum required to consider the miniature completed without intentionally trying to make it look bad is generally considered "table top quality". I think Games Workshop used to have the rules to be considered "painted" and thus be able to use your mini's in their store games, was to have 3 colours on the model and some sort of work done on the basing. Everyone adds or removes details to the definition as they see fit though, including me.

I'd like to have some guidelines drawn up to help describe and/or define the various scores. What a score of X should have and shouldn't have. Might help with the 'creep downward' in the scoring.

 

[zombiepaints]

I'd like to have some guidelines drawn up to help describe and/or define the various scores. What a score of X should have and shouldn't have. Might help with the 'creep downward' in the scoring.[/QUOTE
I think this would be a great idea, especially for others like myself that are new to mini painting/sculpting.

 

[TrystanGST]

The only problem I see with "guidelines" are that judging is rather subjective. I might place a higher emphasis on freehand and subtle shading, while you might prefer more highlighting and more conversions. The way I judge won't (and shouldn't) be the same as you.