W&N Series 7 - Bad Batch?

[jugglervr]

So, I\'m pretty new to painting (clumsy attempts from when I was 15 not counted), and since I have some disposable income and a large amount of perfectionism in my adulthood, I decided to go at it right.

So I bought 4 series 7 Winsor & Newton brushes from dickblick.com
I was immediately disappointed with their poofiness when they arrived. the #2 and #1 especially were so poofy that I couldn\'t even get their little plastic guard on without wetting them. \"Ah well,\" I said to myself. \"These aren\'t as buttery-soft as the sables that came with my Vallejo paint set, but maybe they\'re more robust\" so I conditioned them with my new B&J brush soap the way it says, leaving the soap in the brush, not too far up to the ferrule, sculpting the brush to a nice point...

Then I get them out to paint today, select a #1 for some basecoating, and after 20 strokes or so (of regular rinsing and re-shaping), the brush splits into two distinct points. It\'s pretty dang hard to follow a line when you\'ve got 2 tips. So I rinse well, reshape the tip, dip the paint, and get the double-tip almost immediately.

Rather frustrated, I switch to the #0, which, due to its smaller size, i figure has less of a chance to split. This turns out to be the case, however, it has 4 or 5 hairs that are longer than the rest of the brush, making detail work almost impossible. These few bristles also have a tendency to form a glob of dried pigment at the end while I\'m painting. This glob of pigment resists all attempts at rinsing and blotting, and requires that I pin it to the blotter as I blot to scrape it off the bristles.

Do I need to trim my brushes to a better point?
Can I do anything to avoid the splitting on the #1?
Am I crazy in thinking Series 7 brushes should just work right out of the tube?

Please save me from madness (or from snapping all my brushes in half in a rage.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by jugglervr
I was immediately disappointed with their poofiness when they arrived. the #2 and #1 especially were so poofy that I couldn\'t even get their little plastic guard on without wetting them.
Please define what you mean by \"Poofy\" as over here in the UK it has a more specific meaning, refering to sexual orientation traits.

Do I need to trim my brushes to a better point? No Dont try to trim brushes
Can I do anything to avoid the splitting on the #1? Sorry but no again
Am I crazy in thinking Series 7 brushes should just work right out of the tube? No you are definitley not....I\'d suggest contacting Dick Blick straight away and state that these brushes are \"Not Fit For Purpose\" and request an exchange.

W&N &\'s do have occasionaly screw up brushes, which is why I prefer to select personally rather than via an online store.
But realise that people in the states will not have as easy an access to stores as I do.


AS an aside I\'ve just found out that Ken Bromley\'s store is situated.....In Bolton so I\'m having a trip down there today.

 

[Ritual]

W&N seem to have laxed in their quality control the last years or so. They should, and can, be of excellent quality, but you might just as well, unfortunately, get a really crappy one unless you are careful when picking out the brushes (supposing you\'re in a position that you CAN chose which brush to buy).

I\'d do as DR suggested and contact dickblick. I\'ve heard good things about them and they should be aware of W&N\'s quality issues.

 

[Jericho]

The 000 I got from Dickblick over Christmas had one hair longer than the rest. That\'s what God invented tweezers for

If you have multiple bad bristles and a split tip on another brush, then by all means hound Dickblick about a refund/exchange. They sell them cheap, but not cheap enough that you can toss a W&N without noticing the hurt.

I\'ve heard the Raphael brushes are a bit better than Series 7 for quality control these days. They\'re on Dickblick as well, for about a buck a brush more. Probably $22 or so each at full retail.

 

[jugglervr]

Thank, guys. I\'ll give them a ring.

(and by \"poofy\" I guess I meant \"puffy.\" The bristles were generally not parallel, but came out of the ferrule at a bit of an angle and then curved back to the tip. very different from other brushes I\'ve seen)

 

[mattrock]

Originally posted by jugglervr
Thank, guys. I\'ll give them a ring.

(and by \"poofy\" I guess I meant \"puffy.\" The bristles were generally not parallel, but came out of the ferrule at a bit of an angle and then curved back to the tip. very different from other brushes I\'ve seen)

Actually my 7s do the same thing but when dampened keep a sharp tip despite the initial swell. If you don\'t like the style I\'d suggest you look into W&N Series 7 miniature brushes as they have shorter length and thus form more of a triangular angle to the bristles where the regular 7s look something akin to the brush in the CMON logo.

I have found that you can repair a split tipped brush with Master\'s brush soap by forming the tip and leaving the soap to dry in the brush, but it definitely takes more than one application. You\'ll do this several times before you see results that will please you. On new brushes though, I agree that I\'d see about getting new ones...you should only have to repair old ones that you really like and hate to lose.

 

[lizcam]

I\'ve got a question. Is there a company out there that makes really small (like 0-10/0) flat brushes like filberts and angle brushes out of sable? I use some synthetic ones and love the shapes but can only find rounds in sable.

 

[generulpoleaxe]

raphael 8404\'s just as good with better quality control.
slightly thicker as well so they hold more paint.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

I did read somewhere that W&N laid off a lot of their top brush makers about 2 years ago and I have admit thats about the same time the quality of their brushes have gone to crap. I wont buy one now.

LIke GP said the Raphael 8404\'s are top notch.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by lizcam
I\'ve got a question. Is there a company out there that makes really small (like 0-10/0) flat brushes like filberts and angle brushes out of sable? I use some synthetic ones and love the shapes but can only find rounds in sable.

I\'m having to go back a log time to remember the numeration system for brushes but I\'m pretty sure that the number has something to do with the fine-ness of the tip capability.
Therefore the concept of a 10/0 Flat is a misnomer. There are several small flat brushes from varing manufacturers which you could look up.
www.jacksonart.co.uk
www.artdiscount.co.uk
http://www.artsupplies.co.uk
This last is Ken Bromleys who I visited this afternoon.
It\'s a small warehouse with a shop and a hectic, slightly chaotic madcap air about it. But it has a great range of brushes which I was able to mooch around in and select the the best of the brushes I wanted.
(and best of all it\'s less than 2 miles from my house)

Now I can at the moment make an offer that if anyone wants to buy brushes which they know have been inspected, I am quite willing to help out. Drop me a PM and we can always work something out.

 

[jugglervr]

Wow. That was... easy.
Called the 800 number, complained about the quality. They offered me new product or a credit. I opted for new product to see if it was just a bad batch. \"We\'re sorry for the inconvenience and we\'ll ship out your replacements right away. You can go ahead and dispose of the defective brushes.\"

That\'s nice customer service. If the replacement product is up to quality, I\'m a big fan.

Now, can anyone give me an idea of what I should be looking for as far as quality with the new brushes?
My vallejos are buttery-soft, hold a firm tip, and are very springy... I thought the WNs would be even better, but now I\'m just not sure what makes for a quality brush.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Dick Blicks has always been top notch about customer service.

 

[Jericho]

And being such a massive distributor they can afford to keep people happy like that

 

[Dragonsreach]

Well I\'m glad to see that you\'ve received good customer service.

I don\'t know why but it kinda gives me a mild \"warm fuzzy\" feeling when businesses do the right thing.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by jugglervr
Now, can anyone give me an idea of what I should be looking for as far as quality with the new brushes?
My vallejos are buttery-soft, hold a firm tip, and are very springy... I thought the WNs would be even better, but now I\'m just not sure what makes for a quality brush.

They should be springy and rather tight. No stray bristles and the bristles should hold closely together after dipping them in paint and making a few strokes.

 

[Einion]

Dick Blick are great, nice to hear they came through for you.

Originally posted by jugglervr
Now, can anyone give me an idea of what I should be looking for as far as quality with the new brushes?
My vallejos are buttery-soft, hold a firm tip, and are very springy... I thought the WNs would be even better, but now I\'m just not sure what makes for a quality brush.

Have a look at post #9 in this thread on planetFigure.

Something I should mention is that the dry appearance of a brush isn\'t necessarily any cause for concern. Lots of brushes will look a bit bleh when dry but form a great point when wetted.

For more on the quality issues with Series 7 you just need to do a quick search here, a number of prior threads have posts from me and a few other people on their drop in quality over the years (with no consequent drop in price!!) Used to be you could order a bundle of these and there wouldn\'t be a bad one in the lot - some not quite as great, but very rare indeed to find anything you\'d think of as a true dud - but because I always check before I buy it was easy to spot the decline in quality a few years ago.

Einion

 

[spazzy]

think I\'m going to pop over to dickblick and buy me a few raphaels.... I love companies who give good customer service. Make my day to give my money to them rather than somebody who doesn\'t give a damn.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Originally posted by spazzy
think I\'m going to pop over to dickblick and buy me a few raphaels.... I love companies who give good customer service. Make my day to give my money to them rather than somebody who doesn\'t give a damn.

Ive had better luck getting the Raphael 8404\'s from the Italian Art Store. Also very good service.
http://italianartstore.com

 

[mattrock]

I\'ve always had good experience with blick. The prices tend to be very good with them too.

 

[Thunderhawker]

I got both my S7s and 8404s from blick with no issues. I do use the \"dip and flick\" test as soon as I get them though.