The Journey of a Third World Noob

Tabris_

New member
Hello people, i think it's my first post here and i thought it would be interesting to show you guys my brief history as a mini painter, this serves as both an introduction and a way through which i could ask for advice and tips from the much more experienced folks here from CMON.

I'm from Duque de Caxias, a large city that borders the more well know Rio de Janeiro here in Brazil. I've being playing RPGs for more than 10 years (and i'm only 22), but never paid attention to "real" minis as i saw them as overly expensive and unnecessary. We used chess pieces, metal markers, paper counters and finally paper minis that went more and more complicated with time.

It was not until the beginning of this year that i've taken the next step and went to real miniatures, i began with pre-painted but quickly began painting them myself. I sort of feel in love with the hobby, even more than it's utility in my rpgs i noticed i liked painting for painting sake.

But let's begin talking about the practical things. I began with some skeletons i bought from a friends that had never painted them. I've used Acrilex paints (a low quality national producer of Acrylic paints, the only ones i could readly find on my city) and Condor brushes (about the same thing).

This was the final result: http://coolminiornot.com/252119
Noticed the minis didn't came with bases so i super-glued them to 5 Centavos coins that i painted black. All those were minis were also primed using Acrilex Acrylic Base, prime on brush.

Next came my first real challenge, a group of zombies, they look ok, the skin in a bit to reddish for my tastes, i didn't have a lot of color options and mixing was always at random: http://coolminiornot.com/252118

Them i did some DDM repaints, i don't know if i can submit them to CMON but i'll directly post them there:
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3339/goliathmini1.jpg
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/5386/calistomini.jpg

They are not really great, but i'm really proud of the Goliath. The Barbarian in a player character and the guy liked it so that's ok.

After that i painted just two more minis that looked ugly like hell when i finished them, but that's ok.

After that i decided i would stop using Acrilex paints, making an investment and buying some GW and Vallejo ones, i also bought some LOTR GW miniatures. More than a month after (yes, about 40 days to receive just some paints from the UK by Air Mail. The LOTR minis i managed to find here in Brazil.) i did my first primer by spray. And utterly and catastrophic failure that almost made me give up, i managed to strip the paint from the worst minis that had lost almost all detail to the overpriming and paint over the ones that lost just some.

Those Gondorians where the first ones, i think they are my best work so far even with some mistakes: http://coolminiornot.com/255330

One of my last works was this elf, i didn't shaded it properly because i was trying to follow a tutorial, the highlights are ugly because of the old brushes i used (it's hard to find brushes that stay with round points there): http://coolminiornot.com/255331

After all, i think i'm really immersed by the hobby and that's why i'm posting this there. It's also a way to show that you can accomplish something even with the limited and poor quality materials i can find there, so far the only imported things i used were the paints and the minis and i'm sure somebody who lives in São Paulo, Rio or some other larger city could find better materials.

Yes, you can be a decent painter and make minis for you RPGs and Wargames even if you live in Brazil or someother country that is not in Europe, North America or the Far East. I'm just in the beginning and i'm far from the marvelous painters from this site but i'm sure i'll get there someday.

EDIT: Please, if you are from South America, Africa or some other country outside that main "miniature painting sphere of influence" please share your experiences too. Brazilians are specially welcomed.
 
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Mercius

New member
Welcom to the forums and the hobby friend. I too have recently become lost in the hobby. It is such a great hobbby to have and is great as just a timesink or if you are like me then if you have a bad day, sitting down and painting for an hour or two can be therapeutic. I am glad you were able to pick up some decent paints...sounds like your next step is going to be brushes. You will want to get a good Kolinsky sable brush if you are willing to invest the money, you can try http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-studio-sable-round/ for a cheaper alternative to Windsor Newton or DaVinci brushes. Also sounds like you have been doing some reading, read as many tutorials as you can, engross yourself in the hobby as much as you can.

The biggest tips you will get here are going to be to thin your paints, opinions vary but for layering you will want a skim milk consistancy at the least. I tend to paint using mostly washes and glazes because it suits my style, but that will be the trick, finding the style that works for you and allows you to achieve your best results with the most fun. There are so many tutorials andvideos around here that you will find a glut of info at your fingertips.

As far as your minis go, you can see your progress from the skeletons to the Gondorian warriors. The Gondorian warriors are actually pretty nice, great tabletop quality. Just keep practicing and trying new things and you will continue to improve, and also posting on here will get you lots of good advice also. Cheers and welcome again!
 

Tabris_

New member
Thanks Mercius. You are right about the brushes, i'm thinking about trying some better quality brushes from my own country before going into the more expensive stuff. I fear i'm not good enough already at caring for them and i might waste away my money.

Also, the hardest problem is finding things i can buy here in Brazil. I had to borrow a friend's international credit card to buy the paints as i don't have one myself (and being a student it would be a little hard to get one). Even so the prices and taxes can be rather prohibitive even if they feel fine to you guys. So i think i'll have to ask some of the other painters from Brazil as to what would be the best option.

And about thinning. I'm having problems in finding the correct consistence. Also, how you add the water to the paint? I have a eyedropper but sometimes it seems a drop is too much, others too feel. I've seem some DVDs from miniature mentor where the guy has to do about 7 or 8 layers just for the basecoat. It really needs to be that thin?
 
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Matt Cexwish

New member
Ah, cool...

I was always wondering how this Hobby must seem like for someone from a -as you put it- Third World Country (what is the First, what the second and is there the 10th World then...?... Strange, I always thought we only have one Planet...;)...)...

Myself, I was born and raised in Germany, where the Economy is ever strong and a Hobby like this is a question of a leisure necessity... The Miniatures are expensive and I know that for example in Poland with a slightly lower economy they are really hard to efford...

There is a theory I developed after the years: Painters in countries with a weak economy paint their Miniatures more carefully then others in stronger economy countries, because they think more about their precious material... Another thing is that people are more eager to do commission jobs or sell their Miniatures...

All in all: Welcome to this Great Hobby of ours... Enjoy your time and strive to become the Best Miniature Painter in whole South America... Until now, you are the best I have seen, hah...

You wrote about problems getting Hobby Material... That is exactly what I was thinking... Is there a Hobby Store in Rio...?... I know that Games Workshop analyzes the Markets all around the world and their next project was Japan (which seems successfull...), but I strongly doubt they will be in Brazil within the next, let´s say, 10 years...

If you need a couple of Miniatures you can send me a Personal Message and I will see what I got... Wonder how much shipping is to Brazil, though...^_^... I got a friend that is going there on a regular basis (Slayer Sword Winner by the way...) and he might serve as a Transportation Slave (Cocaina, haha...)...
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Tabris welcome to the site!

While I like to think of CMoN as a worldwide community, there are several places that are very under represented.

We've had a few folks on from Central and South America, we certainly would love to see more.

Your painting is jumping in leaps and bounds. Keep on with the tutorials and such here and you'll be amazed at your progress.

When I first started this hobby, it was a challenge as well. Even though I live in the states, rural Iowa didn't afford many opportunities at getting paint or miniatures readily. I mail ordered almost everything (these were the days before the internet). The hurdles weren't as high as what your's are, but still there.

Welcome to the site! I hope you are one of the torch bearers that bring in many folks from your side of the globe. We'd all be better for it.
 

Tabris_

New member
Ah, cool...

I was always wondering how this Hobby must seem like for someone from a -as you put it- Third World Country (what is the First, what the second and is there the 10th World then...?... Strange, I always thought we only have one Planet...;)...)...

Myself, I was born and raised in Germany, where the Economy is ever strong and a Hobby like this is a question of a leisure necessity... The Miniatures are expensive and I know that for example in Poland with a slightly lower economy they are really hard to efford...

There is a theory I developed after the years: Painters in countries with a weak economy paint their Miniatures more carefully then others in stronger economy countries, because they think more about their precious material... Another thing is that people are more eager to do commission jobs or sell their Miniatures...

All in all: Welcome to this Great Hobby of ours... Enjoy your time and strive to become the Best Miniature Painter in whole South America... Until now, you are the best I have seen, hah...

You wrote about problems getting Hobby Material... That is exactly what I was thinking... Is there a Hobby Store in Rio...?... I know that Games Workshop analyzes the Markets all around the world and their next project was Japan (which seems successfull...), but I strongly doubt they will be in Brazil within the next, let´s say, 10 years...

If you need a couple of Miniatures you can send me a Personal Message and I will see what I got... Wonder how much shipping is to Brazil, though...^_^... I got a friend that is going there on a regular basis (Slayer Sword Winner by the way...) and he might serve as a Transportation Slave (Cocaina, haha...)...

About the term "Third World", it's common there and refers to in development and under-developed countries, it has its origins in the Cold War Era where First World were USA and it's allies, Second world USSR and their comunnist allies and finally Third world were the unaligned nations. More information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

GW had some representatives there in the form of some national hobby stores, none of those hobby stores succeeded and eventually given up. The taxes for importing miniatures are a little high in Brazil and very few people play wargames there. Most people that buy minis buy them for RPGs but they prefer D&D Minis because they are cheaper and they don't have to paint, even those are not officially represent in Brazil because of toy regulations that make distribution by Devir Editora (that has the rights for the D&D books in Brazil) almost impossible.

Most people there prefer to import themselves or buy from other people that unofficially import. This happens because although or taxes are very high not all shipments are taxed, it happens in a almost random fashion. There are some small tricks that reduce the chance the shipment will be tracked and those people that sell minis use them to buy and resell by unofficial means. Big distributors will always be taxed, but small shipments to people instead of businesses will avoid taxing sometimes, this actually incentives this kind of small unofficial activity. Sadly most of those people only sell DDM and HeroClix.

About painting more carefully, i think that's true. I also try to avoid wasting materials and use a lot of improvising. I even have all the sprues of the minis i bought because i might use them for conversions some day. I try to put a minimum of paint in the wet pallete (that i made myself) to avoid wasting precious imported Vallejo paints because there was some colors left when i finished. But anyway i normally don't like wasting stuff anyhow, this is not only with my minis.

About hobby stores i know two here in Rio but one is focused at RPGs and the other in airplane models and pre-painted figures. One sells Vallejo paints but it's about 4 times more expensive than buying for outside the country. I've seem some variety of brushs too, but i think the prices would be in the same range to if i'm going to invest some money better to import.

About the offer for minis, thanks. Right now i have about 80 LOTR minis to paint so i don't ABSOLUTELY NEED more minis, if you want to send minis or supplies i will receive and be very thankful, please contact by PM for my address or other means of contact. I've never met such a kind community before.

Tabris welcome to the site!

While I like to think of CMoN as a worldwide community, there are several places that are very under represented.

We've had a few folks on from Central and South America, we certainly would love to see more.

Your painting is jumping in leaps and bounds. Keep on with the tutorials and such here and you'll be amazed at your progress.

When I first started this hobby, it was a challenge as well. Even though I live in the states, rural Iowa didn't afford many opportunities at getting paint or miniatures readily. I mail ordered almost everything (these were the days before the internet). The hurdles weren't as high as what your's are, but still there.

Welcome to the site! I hope you are one of the torch bearers that bring in many folks from your side of the globe. We'd all be better for it.
Thx for the post. There are sure lots of people like me. I 've seem some photos of some guy that is manufacturing his own minis in central Brazil and those are nice sculps. I think Brazil is developing and growing as a country and the RPG hobby (which is the great "entry drug" for mini painting here) is growing with it. As people become able to import more stuff from USA because they have more money the hobby slowly grows. I can't speak for other countries but i'm sure there are plenty of painters in Argentina too and i'm sure we will be seeing lots of painters from Latin America showing their works here.
 

gsr15

New member
Hi there Tabris,

As another newbie on the site I'll agree with what everyone else has said so far...you've made a huge improvement between the zombies and the LOTR soldiers. I've learned a ton from reading through many of the forums and articles here, and there is still so much more around here to learn! Also, be sure to post pictures as you paint in the Work in Progress section of the forum...I have received lots of wonderful help and suggestions in there from the other members to help improve my painting, so take advantage of the resources here and just keep painting!
 

Tabris_

New member
Hi there Tabris,

As another newbie on the site I'll agree with what everyone else has said so far...you've made a huge improvement between the zombies and the LOTR soldiers. I've learned a ton from reading through many of the forums and articles here, and there is still so much more around here to learn! Also, be sure to post pictures as you paint in the Work in Progress section of the forum...I have received lots of wonderful help and suggestions in there from the other members to help improve my painting, so take advantage of the resources here and just keep painting!

Thx! I usually paint a whole mini in one go (I'm like this, once i begin i can't stop until i finish) but i'll try to paint step by step to post in the wip page.
 

tooshy

New member
Hey Tabris, nice to hear your story so far and to see the progress you have made. Unfortunately a lot of people take it for granted that paints, models etc are readily available (and I include myself in that group). I can't imagine what it is like not to be able to get that sort of stuff; it makes me feel bad for my impatience!

Your painting has certainly improved - your elf demonstrates that you are getting a lot neater with your painting. Literally staying 'within the lines' is the first start. If you can paint base colours neatly (forget highlights and shading initially) then you are on the way to producing some great models. I would also mention preparation - THE most important step. Making sure your joins are neat, no excess glue and cleaning off any rough parts and those pesky mould lines!

I think you are definitely good for some better paint brushes now. That alone will improve your brush control and quality of painting. With regards to thinning your paints, I add water with my brush. Getting good coverage with paint does not mean a thick coat; the DVD you saw was right when it said to use lots of layers. In a hot country one of the things you will probably suffer from is paint drying too quickly. This will give you a very rough finish, but if you use very thin paint and load your brush (not too much though because you don't want to flood the model) the paint will flow very evenly. Use a hairdryer to dry between layers if it's taking too long. Painting over paint that hasn't dried properly will also give you a rough finish.

I'd like to send you some brushes - I have lots and can certainly donate some to help you progress :) If you are happy to receive them, PM me with your name and address and I'll pop them in the post :D In the meantime, keep up the good work! ;)
 

Mercius

New member
Aside from practice nothing improved my painting more than buying Kolinsky sable brushes...it really makes a huge difference, especially with brush control. I don't care for my brushes very well and my sables are still holding a perfect point and applying paint smooth and evenly. Again welcome to the forums and I am glad you are finding us all such a nice community.
 

Tabris_

New member
Hey Tabris, nice to hear your story so far and to see the progress you have made. Unfortunately a lot of people take it for granted that paints, models etc are readily available (and I include myself in that group). I can't imagine what it is like not to be able to get that sort of stuff; it makes me feel bad for my impatience!

Your painting has certainly improved - your elf demonstrates that you are getting a lot neater with your painting. Literally staying 'within the lines' is the first start. If you can paint base colours neatly (forget highlights and shading initially) then you are on the way to producing some great models. I would also mention preparation - THE most important step. Making sure your joins are neat, no excess glue and cleaning off any rough parts and those pesky mould lines!

I think you are definitely good for some better paint brushes now. That alone will improve your brush control and quality of painting. With regards to thinning your paints, I add water with my brush. Getting good coverage with paint does not mean a thick coat; the DVD you saw was right when it said to use lots of layers. In a hot country one of the things you will probably suffer from is paint drying too quickly. This will give you a very rough finish, but if you use very thin paint and load your brush (not too much though because you don't want to flood the model) the paint will flow very evenly. Use a hairdryer to dry between layers if it's taking too long. Painting over paint that hasn't dried properly will also give you a rough finish.

I'd like to send you some brushes - I have lots and can certainly donate some to help you progress :) If you are happy to receive them, PM me with your name and address and I'll pop them in the post :D In the meantime, keep up the good work! ;)
Thx for the tips. I really had some problems with getting a neater painting at the beginning.

I'm more than surprised about people willing to send me minis and supplies, i didn't even tough about it when i first created the topic, i just wanted to share my experiences.

BTW, some friends will be appearing there soon, first probably will be Wulfgar, a friend i made over the web that wants to start playing wargames too.

I think the best thing about a smaller community like the brazilian one is how you get to know basically everybody via forums and etc, it's easy to share experiences and etc. We are probably a few hundreds in the whole country and this really puts people together in some way.

EDIT: A photo of my "painting corner". Not bad for a noob i think

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8319/paindesk.jpg
 
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Mercius

New member
Your painting area is much neater than mine...I am always running across loose flocking, stray metal sprue and random birch seed seperators at my station, God help me when I have to dig in what I like to call the corner of random parts for something.
 

Tabris_

New member
Your painting area is much neater than mine...I am always running across loose flocking, stray metal sprue and random birch seed seperators at my station, God help me when I have to dig in what I like to call the corner of random parts for something.
I tremble only to think of the chaos a veteran painter spare parts corner might be. I'm trying to keep everything organized, specially as i share my bedroom with my brother and he complains a lot about lack of organization and "my miniatures and RPG books taking over his room". His hobby (aquariums) seems to take a much smaller space in the living room.

Of course this is my work desk and i can't have a lot of things over it because we also use it to play or RPGs, also it's not really balanced (probably because it's plastic) and having more weight over it would only maek the swinging it does while i paint worse.

If i should show my mini storage and my tools storage it would be entirely different. I'm luck my aunt was into making decoration for children's parties when i was a child and into making dental prosthetics later and abandoned both. Now i have most of stuff i would need for converting, scenery building (altough i don't do that because i don't have space to store) and eventually venturing into sculping. This doesn't means they are well organized or that my mother likes them in the middle of the bedroom.

Miniature tools at one side, psychology books (from university) in the other, at the corner my guitar... That's what you get for liking very different things, a REALLY MESSY ROOM. :beerwave:
 

tooshy

New member
Hey Tabris, I noticed on the picture of your painting desk that you have a pot for your brushes. They look like they are suspended in water. Do you store them like this, or are they like that just while you are painting? The reason I ask is because ideally they should stored upright with the bristles in a nice neat point and let them dry like that. It will help keep the bristles together; being in water will cause them to 'fluff' open and really you want them to be nice and pointy! Apologies if this is just whilst you are painting (even then I would question doing it!) but I thought I'd mention it :)
 

Mercius

New member
Tabris, do they have pink soap down there? If they do invest in some and use it at the end of painting to clean the paint out of the ferule and to form a sharp point. This will extend the life of your brushes even more.
 

Tabris_

New member
What's the different of this pink soap Mercius? Never saw it selling here but i'm thinking there's an equivalent, just not sure.

If i search in art stores in Rio i might find some brush cleaner or something similar i can't find in my own city. I'll also ask other mini painters here how they clean their brushs.

BTW i devised a small device that keeps the brushes immersed in water without they touching the sides of the cup. Did this using an old Requeijão cup.

EDIT: (didn't noticed tooshy's post)
Hey Tabris, I noticed on the picture of your painting desk that you have a pot for your brushes. They look like they are suspended in water. Do you store them like this, or are they like that just while you are painting? The reason I ask is because ideally they should stored upright with the bristles in a nice neat point and let them dry like that. It will help keep the bristles together; being in water will cause them to 'fluff' open and really you want them to be nice and pointy! Apologies if this is just whilst you are painting (even then I would question doing it!) but I thought I'd mention it :)
Wow! It was suggested by a friend, didn't knew it caused this kind of trouble. I'm stopping using it right now.
 
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freakinacage

New member
Miniature tools at one side, psychology books (from university) in the other, at the corner my guitar... That's what you get for liking very different things, a REALLY MESSY ROOM. :beerwave:

lol thats nothing. you should see my room. a bomb could go off and it would end up tidier!!

i live in wales, does that count as 3rd world?!

welcome to the forums btw
 

Tabris_

New member
lol thats nothing. you should see my room. a bomb could go off and it would end up tidier!!

i live in wales, does that count as 3rd world?!

welcome to the forums btw
Your money has 3 times the value of our money. So i think not.

BTW, we recently had a D&D 4th campaign that had taken place in a fantasy version of Wales. Great fun even me not being a fan of 4th.
 

Shawn R. L.

New member
lol thats nothing. you should see my room. a bomb could go off and it would end up tidier!!

Down around the Pleistocene layer, there's a carpet in my room.



The paint job looks good on the archers but the bows need to be strung. Good thick hair works well for that.
 
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Tabris_

New member
Down around the Pleistocene layer, there's a carpet in my room.



The paint job looks good on the archers but the bows need to be strung. Good thick hair works well for that.
I always forget about that, and i'm sure i'm not the only one, i see lots of archers without strings even there at CMON. Not sure if hair is the best option because it's to frail and those are going to be use at tabletop. I was thinking about guitar cords or even wire.
 
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