Proxy Models in a Game...is it a sin?

[beowulfthehunter]

Ok I just got reamed over on the PP site because I sugested Proxying one of thier overpriced figure with something cheaper.

God forbid I try to save a buck in this already expensive hobby.

So my question is this, how do youy feel about proxying a model. Now by that I mean using a figure who is similar to the model.

Examples would be:
Space Marine Scouts used as MI
Beastmen used for Tharn (the sugestion that got me yelled at)
Generic guys with pikes used as Spearmen in Warhammer Fantasy.

 

[Sand Rat]

Well, since I\'m building an Empire Army out of Foundry miniatures, a Reaper Wizard for my army wizard and using Reaper Dwarves as a Dogs of War unit, plus putting together a Lizardman army with Sebiki from Crocodile games as my Krox, hell no, I dont have an issue with it.

 

[Furyhound]

I am the utmost enemy of pure proxy (Unpainted models, cards, lego etc.) but I myself want to create proxy like banshees from Rachkam, Werewolves that represent minotaurs and more.
It depends on how far do you go.

Example: You took a reaper Chaos wizard as your necromancer in a VC army.
No harm no faul, or you took drune warriors as marausers it even fits like a glove, or a Jack instead of a dreadnought.
Something a bit far - Hell its difficult for me to think of that, maybe my example with the minotaurs is a bit far.

I would never yell at someone for proxying like that. Something idiotic is to take high elf spearmen and say they are skaven.......
Even if someone brought a rival miniature company to an event dedicated only to a single company, I would tell the proxyers its not nice what they are doing on the worst case, never yell.

Whoever snapped at you had no right. Even if he was right let\'s say you brought a rival company insulting the event, still he had no right.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by beowulfthehunter
Ok I just got reamed over on the PP site because I suggested Proxying one of their overpriced figures with something cheaper.

Gotta be honest here, that might not have been the most tactful thing to have done. So I can understand if you got shouted at.

However I see the point you are making, even if I do not consider PP to be overpriced. I\'ve said before that I have no problem with an opponent using a proxy model within a game. As long as the figure is within the comparative size and scale of the game and is played within the spirit there\'s no problem.

 

[Hoblit]

There are two things here. First up is your definition of proxy.

At the club I play at. Proxying models is allowed if you are building up a new army and want to try new units or different combinations and so on. This is incredibly useful and allows good army development without wasting money on models that you never use.

Using different models, such as Steelcult\'s suggestions, is perfectly acceptable for club tournaments and friendly games, however, in a sanctioned event, then only models produced by the sanctioning company are allowed, which I also feel is fair.

 

[Sand Rat]

And I agree with that also Hoblit.

I dont play at \"Sanctioned\" events most of the time, so, its good to go for me.

But, I do agree that the proxied fig should look like what its supposed to be

 

[supervike]

Ideally, miniatures that you\'d play with would be WYSIWYG. This would help keep the rules on the up and up AND keep opponents honest. Also, from an aesthetic point of view. Its much more enjoyable to see a fully painted truly representational unit that a piece of paper or a lego man.


BUT, I think there would be absolutley nothing wrong with a proxy army (expect for the sanctioned events). If the GAME is truly the real point of it, better to enjoy the game than to wait until every miniature is \'legal\'.

 

[beowulfthehunter]

I will never play in a sanctioned PP event. I cannot stand thier format.

I have never been a fan of BS proxies
Elfs for Skaven either, but I have played against armies where my opponent had boxes as Rhinos!

 

[hakoMike]

Originally posted by supervike
If the GAME is truly the real point of it, better to enjoy the game than to wait until every miniature is \'legal\'.

I agree. If we\'re playing a game, then it should be about playing and not your opponent\'s ability to buy models. Bring on the origami doomwheel!

Yeah, two nicely painted armies of the correct figures with good scenery pieces look great on the table, but I would rather play with crap than turn away a potential opponent.

 

[Gilvan Blight]

Sorta on topic, sorta off.

I just wish the game companies made enough minis with enough variety that your army can be wsiwyg withought having to convert. I hate the fact that I need to convert to my minis just to make them look like a comon army choice. I barely find enough time to paint, let alone convert.

 

[Spacemunkie]

Can I just play Devils Advocate and say WTF start playing Warmachine in the first place if you find it either too expensive or don\'t like the models???

Seems to me that you miss out on a large part of what makes pretty much any mini related game fun - the figures!

If I don\'t like the figs, I don\'t play the game. There are games like Confrontation that I started playing because the figs were so good, then stopped because the rules are utter arse.

I can understand proxying to try out a unit, but surely buying the figs shows your support for what that company is doing in the long run?

 

[Dark Seraphim]

Proxying or using Standin\'s, is fine by me. Only the official competitions you would not be allowed to use thoes minis...

But using card or lego (as one so nicely pointed out) is not acceptable, but other minis to represent them (eg. another mage for a mage) is good.

 

[beowulfthehunter]

To respond to the Devil...lol

I am only going to Proxy one unit due to the fact it is going to cost like 80 bucks to field that unit of 6 models!

I plan to purchase the other models from that mini line, but just not those. I have supported the company, but sometimes you have to look at other expenses in real life.

Also when your firends play a game and your not to happy about the figures (Warlord) you just want to proxy to play with them.

 

[Modderrhu]

Don\'t proxy within a single army. Don\'t try proxying dark elf Dark Riders for Cold One Knights. That\'s far more confusing for the opponent than trying to proxy off some skaven as skinks.

Proxy like for like. High elf archers for Brettonian archers is fine.

The worst I saw was a lizardman army, with all the appropriate models, except for a green card with a big \'F\' written on it - the slann-mage priest. The table-top was green, and the opponent consistantly forgot about what was the becoming the biggest threat on the table. No fair.

 

[hashmallum]

But it\'s kinda strange :/
Like playing Dawn Of War tyrannids with models from all other armies

No fun ...

The same thing we could use caps , toy cars as proxies , just using our imagination...
(Though I never play with unpainted models)

For me it\'s very strange , and I doubt I personally could ever make myslef playing with proxy models

Maybe it\'s the same thing that doesn\'t allow my mind to play classic pen and paper RPGs...

It\'s too abstract

 

[Dark Seraphim]

In the spirit of my Eldar army, I\'m thinking about getting the Dark Age:

Removing the tail, adding a crystaline weapon and some gems to him, as a Wraithlord.

I agree with hash though, proxying a mini that has no relation what so ever with the mini it\'s supposed to be replacing is just sad

 

[EricJ]

I say proxy all you want, enjoy the games, enjoy playing with friends, and don\'t worry about PP fanboy\'s who have nothing better than to defend a company who doesn\'t pay them anyway! We all likely pay a TON to these companies, why do we need to spend 80$ and countless hours painting, getting a squad together before we can even try it on the field!

Don\'t expect to have the minis accepted in broader circles, but with friends, I don\'t see a problem at all.

 

[StarFyre]

haha

other models?

many of my WH matches have been against pieces of paper that says \"unit of 24 skeletons\". etc.
That way my friend could figure out what worked for him, and it helped me practice without friend having all the models for his army, and let me face many other armies I would not normally have a chance to play.

Sanjay

 

[Spacemunkie]

Originally posted by beowulfthehunter
I am only going to Proxy one unit due to the fact it is going to cost like 80 bucks to field that unit of 6 models!

Is that how much a unit of those Rackham rip-offs cost??
Have to say, PP figs aint that cheap where infantry is concerned. But the game is smashing

 

[Xavier]

Amongst friends all\'s fair as long as the base size is the correct size.

However if you plan on playing in a league or sanctioned events then I think proxing should be minimized should look good and accurately represent.

The only other exception is if you go to the extreme and proxy a whole are my with a theme of your own. Such as, David Taylor’s, Cathay army.