Plastic over metal?

[DennisMech]

This has happened to me from time to time. I show some guests this crazy hobby of mine and explain the gaming and the painting and show off a couple sprues and bits, and then a question comes up. What is the difference between plastic and metal (as in use, they\'re not THAT unknowing) and i say that plastic is cheaper and so it is used for regiments and the like and that I like it because of how easy to file and cut it is. But sometimes they question why not all miniatures are made of plastic. And I freeze and end up saying something like \"I really like this miniature\" and distract them with some colorful little guy and it is forgoten. But what is the difference? why arn\'t all minis made of platic? and why do only GW make plastic (or at least anything good in plastic)? Anyway, i\'ve ranted on, but please enlighten me if you can!

 

[farseerlum]

metal casts are finer and able to carry more detail than plastic.

the lessor reason (astheticaly speaking) is that a plastic die is extremmly expensive compared to RTV molds used in metal. you could make an RTV mold yourself.
you would need many thousands of dollars for a injection die.

so the variety is made by metals and the quality is made of metals but the RAF is plastics.
the plastics quality seems to be getting better though. one day mayby they will all be plastic. (it\'d be a cold day though)

 

[DennisMech]

These days I find that new plastics are very close to the same quality.

ah ha! the expence, this explains why all GW plastics are only made in england.

i don\'t see why it would be a cold day. I would be rejoicing! Plastic is easier to cut and modle, on the shelf the are relatively cheaper, and the flash is easier to clean.

 

[finn17]

It all depends what you want to do with them...

As someone who has never used figures for gaming purposes, just a collector and painter. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in anything made of plastic.

Perhaps this is just prejudice as plastic is generally seen as a cheap material. But I like the solid feeling of a lump of lead in my hand. Another reason I suppose, is that I often buy up old painted minis, that have been smothered in paint. A few hours in the gunk-tank and they are as good as new. All ready for me to paint in my own style, or just add to the ever growing painting list.

If I was a gamer or converter however, I would probably have completely opposite views.

:flip:

 

[U4-Welcome]

I like plastic for one thing : it\'s light. So though you don\'t get as much detail as with metal, you never have to worry about your mini suddenly breaking up. E.g. I\'m working on a horsewoman with a standard. The horse is plastic and will be glued to the base by three of its hooves. The girl and the standard are lead. Heavy. Hence, high center of gravity, and this is why I fear that the 3 points of attach will not be enough, and that it\'sll break at the slightest touch. This wouldn\'t be so much of a problem had everything been made of plastic. See ? :flip:

 

[freakinacage]

i have to say that i love plastic. it is cheap and flexible. although i still associate heavy with quality, if you drop a metal mini, the paint is more likely to chip and bits are more likely to fall off. i feel that most minis should be made of plastic as the quality of the moulds seems to be increasing.

we will still need character models in metal though (i need the tabs for putting in my paint pots to mix up better).

i was dissapointed to see that the new grey knights were all metal. i think they could have easily been done in plastic. oh well, you don\'t always get what you want

 

[Sturmhalo]

Ooh, plastic is wonderful! The figures are cheap and you can chuck em across the kitchen floor without any worries! Plus I can chop em up and stick em together in all sorts of weird and wonderful postions.



If anyone noted a touch of sarcasm there, then you already know my opinion. Plastic figures are ok I guess, but they\'re not as detailed as metal (regardless of how good they are these days!). They are fun to stick together and you can interchange some parts (though I wish some people had better aesthetic judgement), but that doesn\'t necessarily make for a good set of figures.

Yeah, the costs of making moulds for plastics are prohibitively high for most companies. GW originally started experimenting with plastics around 1985/86 I think (Drastik Plastik Orcs & Psychostyrene Dwarves anyone?). The plastics they made in the late 80\'s were in addition to the metal models. You had a choice of good quality metal or the somewhat lesser quality plastics. Great if you wanted to build a large army quickly and didn\'t mind the compromise. However, these days GW don\'t give the option. I suppose it is more cost effective to just make either plastic or metal of a particular type of figure, but I reckon a lot of it has to do with the cost to the gamer. GW would never sell enough stuff if everything was metal these days as they\'ve outpriced the cost of their metal figures. Plastics are the only way people can afford to build armies (not that that\'s \'cheap\' these days either - plastic space marine devastators/jump troops being my point). For example, a box of space marines sets you back about £15 I think. If you wanted that squad in metal I think I\'m right in saying it\'d cost over £30!

I\'ll always remember reading the article in the Citadel Journal where Jervis Johnson (I think it was him) introduced the plastic figures back in the 80\'s. He said that plastics would not supercede metal. Hmm....

 

[tooshy]

Sounds about right

Well having read through this thread, I think I agree with almost all of the \'pros & cons\' of metal vs plastic.

It\'s all a matter of taste (hmmmm... plastic <chomp chomp chomp>).. I just prefer metal figures and I\'m willing to pay a bit extra for them. Plastic just doesn\'t feel right - I mean can you imagine the Grenadier Goblin Giant in plastic - YUK :|~

Ok so metal figures are annoying sometimes \'cos they can bend and break and almost never recover after being dropped (nor the item they fell on) but they are nice.

What\'s the deal with GW when they make 99.9% of a model in metal, but then include a plastic arm, or a plastic horses head to go onto a metal horse body ??? What\'s the point?

 

[finn17]

That\'s what I\'d expect from you...

Originally posted by freakinacage
i was dissapointed to see that the new grey knights were all metal. i think they could have easily been done in plastic. oh well, you don\'t always get what you want

Philistine!:flame::duh:

 

[Flashman14]

I can\'t seem to muster an opinion with any recalcitrance. Like Finn there I do like the weight and heft of some solid figs, but it is easier to work with plastic.

A compromise - a metal frame with a plastic exoskeleton? - It could give new meaning to the name \"lead belly\".

Heh . . I know that was bad . . the Rocky & Bullwinkle First Season was just released on disc and that kind of joke typified the Mr. Peabody endings . . . lol

 

[kittykat23uk]

Personnally I prefer metal to plastic any day. I especially don\'t like the way that GW are now making a lot of their dragons in plastic- they just don\'t feel right and I don\'t feel like I\'m getting my money\'s worth. Plastics do have thier place though and are beneficial when converting as you normally get more bitz left over from assembling plastics.

One exception to this is that I like resin figures- but again, they feel quite heavy and they are normally very detailled.

Regards

Kat

 

[Doctor Faust]

A plastic mold cost about $100,000. A metal mold costs about (guessing) $300. It is just not economically possible to make everything out of plastic.

I was once told by a GW rep that the Leman Russ tank, despite being their best seller, took ten years before they saw a profit on it. Gives you an idea of the costs involved.

 

[Lurch]

Originally posted by Freakinacage
i have to say that i love plastic. it is cheap and flexible

:wow:Cheap? :wow:
If its so cheap, why am I paying 30 dollars for enough sprues to make 6 figures? Or in the case of the larger models these days, one.
Ohh and the new WOTC plastic figures look soo much better than their older, metal chainmail counterparts.
Bah!
Plastic is just another way of making us pay alot of money for our mini addiction, with no real gain.

 

[supervike]

metal head

I have many plastics, and many metallic minis.

I like the qualities of both. Plastics are easier to chop up and glue together, but I do agree with the consenses.

Aestically speaking (is that how that is spelled?) The metal minis just feel and look like something collectable. The plastics do tend to become more....toyish (not that there is anything wrong with that)

So, in a perfect world.....

 

[Grumbold Ironbrow]

Its metal for me!!

Originally posted by finn17
As someone who has never used figures for gaming purposes, just a collector and painter. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in anything made of plastic.

Perhaps this is just prejudice as plastic is generally seen as a cheap material. But I like the solid feeling of a lump of lead in my hand. Another reason I suppose, is that I often buy up old painted minis, that have been smothered in paint. A few hours in the gunk-tank and they are as good as new. All ready for me to paint in my own style, or just add to the ever growing painting list.

If I was a gamer or converter however, I would probably have completely opposite views.

:flip:

I have to agree with Finn. I don\'t play any of the GW games so I\'m not building large armies. I paint individual character pieces and display pieces and I just prefer the feel of metal. I bought some of the GW plastic pieces this spring to give them a try and just didn\'t care for them that much. They just seemed cheap to me. I can see the appeal of plastic if you need to assemble large units, but that\'s just not what I\'m into.

Cheers,
Grumb

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by tooshy
What\'s the deal with GW when they make 99.9% of a model in metal, but then include a plastic arm, or a plastic horses head to go onto a metal horse body ??? What\'s the point?

My GW horses are the other way around: plastic body with metal head! They tend to tip over forward if not counterweighed under the back of the base.

I don\'t play either, but I hope to so I am making an army.
I suppose I would only like them all metal if I didn\'t want to make any changes to them. I had a bugger of a time shortening the cloak on the amazon CMON figure. Plastic I could have done with an awl and my kitchen stove in 5 minutes.

That\'s what it comes down to for the users: if you want to change it then plastic is great but if you like the original (or only make small adjustments) metal is more impressive in detail.

Personally I like plastic for painting too if it were just as good. The truth is I can hold a plastic mini from a tiny spot without it falling - I\'m less likely to drop the lighter weight - and as a consequence I don\'t end up rubbing off the paint as often while working on some other bit.
Plus plastic minis don\'t get stopped at the airport!

 

[Sand Rat]

Hmm, actually having worked for a long time with both plastic and lead I would say that both arguments are valid. However, in 25mm I have seen nothing in plastic that is as good as its lead counterparts - but for real quaility of casting I am becoming more and more enamored of resin pieces, which have the fine line molding capacity of the lead, with the weight advantages of plastics, with the cost of both combinied

 

[finn17]

The fumes the fumes....Urk!!

Originally posted by vincegamer
Plus plastic minis don\'t get stopped at the airport!

I have been stripping minis all afternoon and perhaps the vapours have got to me but Vince\'s last sentence just conjured up the most amazingly stupid mental image.

I always imagined GW shipped them in large boxes. I never knew they had to make their own way...

Am I the only sick bugger round here?lol

 

[wightzombie]

plastic can be percieved as cheaper but thats really only gw\'s pricing scheme. a pewter figure costs nill to make. i think at least all characters and single models should be pewter. i dont mind file and rank being plastic especially if you pick up a movement tray of pewter minis, wouldnt want that to tip not to mention the weight saved in your army case when 60 minis are plastic.

although what KAT said scared me about a plastic dragon, that would seriously suck. i especially love me pewter dreadnought and give the plastic ones thee evil eye.

also i dont know why but i usually just pin weight as quality or older ala it was made right the 1st time! from surge outlets to silverware to cars etc, if it doesnt have the wieght, in the back of my mind it just seems flimsy like a new laptop or flip out cell phone.

i dont mind most of gw\'s plastics now but if they start casting single characters like teclis as plastic and try charging 11 or 13 bucks for him ill be crawling out of the store laughing. lol

 

[tooshy]

Ooooh lots of pretty colours.....

Hmmm...Finn maybe you do need some fresh air dear lol

However, having said that - how the hell would they get their weapons past customs? ??? Can you imagine an Ork being frisked and then questioned when they find a bolter under his coat and several snotlings in his top pocket....

Customs Officer (CO): \"ok Mr..er..ShagNasty is it?...ok well what do you think you are doing attempting to take a weapon aboard a British Airways flight?..\"

Ork: \"Dat\'s nuffink mate...u oughta sez ma bruvva...\'es got a fookin\' big rokkit launcha. Got it cheep \'e did....\"

CO: \"er..right and what about these chaps.?\" <pointing to a small group of snotlings sitting on the table>

Ork: \"Deeze \'lil guyz fix me bitz...don\' cost much an\' if dez getz in da way, well I jus\' stik me boot under \'em and off da go...nuffink wrong wiv dat is der?\" <Ork gives CO the evil eye..>

CO: \"No! No..not at all Mr Shagnasty....you are free to go, have a nice trip Sir! \" <CO hastily stuffs snotlings back into Orks pocket and sends him on his way..>