Commissar Elvis
New member
I\'ve started this thread to continue what Shadzar and I have been discussing, so as to avoid a hijack of Freakinacage\'s Trading Post thread.
On Games Workshop, Intellectual Property and Anti-Trust Law
- Thread starter Commissar Elvis
- Start date
vincegamer
New member
That puts Ebay WAAAAY behind WalMart (China\'s single largest trading partner).
Commissar Elvis
New member
Which is good. WalMart has one of, if not THE, most reprehensible business models I\'ve ever seen. They abjectly deny workers the right to unionize (two in Canada have done it, but WalMart will probably close them out of greed and spite), they undercut the economy of the very nation that buys most of their crap by buying cheap Chinese goods which are sold to Wal-Mart for low prices due to artificially lowered labor costs (what amounts to slave labor in many cases), and they pay their workers a starvation wage. I don\'t do business with Wal-Mart unless I\'m drunk (because if that\'s the case, they\'re the only store open 24 hours near my house 
). See the AFL-CIO\'s petitioning of the Bush administration for an example of this (just Google for \"AFL-CIO China Petition\").
Anyhow...to say that the Internet is not a viable place to do business is to completely ignore reality. Look at how many business operate extremely successfully entirely in cyberspace.
Before I get too far off on a tangent, I\'ll steer myself back on course - Denying Internet retailers (such as myself, though I\'m just barely getting going) access to distributors, product, etc. is simply unfair practices designed solely to limit competition. Discount caps? Requiring a brick and mortar store? What the hell are these people on about?
To quote the ultracapitalists themselves, \"It\'s business.\"
). See the AFL-CIO\'s petitioning of the Bush administration for an example of this (just Google for \"AFL-CIO China Petition\").Anyhow...to say that the Internet is not a viable place to do business is to completely ignore reality. Look at how many business operate extremely successfully entirely in cyberspace.
Before I get too far off on a tangent, I\'ll steer myself back on course - Denying Internet retailers (such as myself, though I\'m just barely getting going) access to distributors, product, etc. is simply unfair practices designed solely to limit competition. Discount caps? Requiring a brick and mortar store? What the hell are these people on about?
To quote the ultracapitalists themselves, \"It\'s business.\"
vincegamer
New member
Keep in mind, they are limiting competition for THEIR product.
That is what is odd to me. They limit secondary sales. They get the original sale don\'t they?
Anyway, it just pushes the smaller dealer into some other product, and if we can push for open game systems, then more power to the sellers of Spyglass etc.
That is what is odd to me. They limit secondary sales. They get the original sale don\'t they?
Anyway, it just pushes the smaller dealer into some other product, and if we can push for open game systems, then more power to the sellers of Spyglass etc.
No Such Agency
New member
Commisar Elvis: To quote a very politically conservative poster on another site I frequent, Fark.com:
...you know, rather than funding a PR blitz [in the wake of several workers\' rights violations scandals], wouldn\'t it have been better [for Wal-Mart] to have just cleaned up all their labor violations and start playing by the rules like the rest of us?
It\'s closer to a caricature of a capitalist success story - it\'s almost if a bunch of college maoists/commies got together and dreamed up everything wrong about corporate america from their perspective. Then built it and set it loose on the world.
That\'s what wal-mart is like.
ON topic: The internet is a great \"place\" to do business, as long as you\'re selling relatively small, relatively valuable specialty items - or selling in such large volume that you get a rock-bottom shipping discount with FedEx/UPS etc. and can afford to offer cheap/free shipping.
Pets.com tried to sell pet food and kitty litter on the web, but of course having kitty litter FedExed to your house is retarded because it\'s heavy and you can buy it anywhere. Pets.com is no longer with us. GW and other mini makers are a perfect example of the former type - they sell small, expensive items to a niche market - so they can, and DO, do very well.
I think the gist of GW reseller policy is that they simply don\'t want online stores selling their minis below the MSRP. GW carefuly \"price-points\" their products, and being undercut by third parties causes the customer to believe that GW\'s prices are inflated. I suspect that \"real\" stores simply can\'t afford to undercut GW - they have higher overhead. Also, because GW dominates the market, every brick-and-mortar game store who sells them becomes a \"GW store\" - catering the the \"Games Workshop Hobby\". This is reinforced by the barrage of promo materials sent to shops, so the GW brand is everywhere.
...you know, rather than funding a PR blitz [in the wake of several workers\' rights violations scandals], wouldn\'t it have been better [for Wal-Mart] to have just cleaned up all their labor violations and start playing by the rules like the rest of us?
It\'s closer to a caricature of a capitalist success story - it\'s almost if a bunch of college maoists/commies got together and dreamed up everything wrong about corporate america from their perspective. Then built it and set it loose on the world.
That\'s what wal-mart is like.
ON topic: The internet is a great \"place\" to do business, as long as you\'re selling relatively small, relatively valuable specialty items - or selling in such large volume that you get a rock-bottom shipping discount with FedEx/UPS etc. and can afford to offer cheap/free shipping.
Pets.com tried to sell pet food and kitty litter on the web, but of course having kitty litter FedExed to your house is retarded because it\'s heavy and you can buy it anywhere. Pets.com is no longer with us. GW and other mini makers are a perfect example of the former type - they sell small, expensive items to a niche market - so they can, and DO, do very well.
I think the gist of GW reseller policy is that they simply don\'t want online stores selling their minis below the MSRP. GW carefuly \"price-points\" their products, and being undercut by third parties causes the customer to believe that GW\'s prices are inflated. I suspect that \"real\" stores simply can\'t afford to undercut GW - they have higher overhead. Also, because GW dominates the market, every brick-and-mortar game store who sells them becomes a \"GW store\" - catering the the \"Games Workshop Hobby\". This is reinforced by the barrage of promo materials sent to shops, so the GW brand is everywhere.
Drake Farstrider
New member
They don\'t want anybody selling their product cheaper than MSRP. There was an instance when I worked at my LGS, that GW stopped selling to another game store, because they were discounting GW\'s products up to 30%. They would only agree to sell to them once they had stopped discounting GW\'s product. Of course they agreed, but the damage was already done. They eventually went out of business. GW then happily moved into the area with there own store.
Drinks a shot of Vodka.
: :flip::bouncy::flip:
D
Dark Zealot Studios
Guest
The reson that Gw dicided to suspened internet sales is to help brick and moter stores.
I worked at a hobby shop for many years both doring internet sales and after the new GW policys and what it all comes down to is gw has promoted its hobby to where it is by the games being played the majarity of there customers are in to playing then the painting of the models and they are trying to protect the brick and morter stores that promot that and provid a plase for people to met play and get help in there hobby.
The problem is not the internet but the fact that most internet places where priceing there product at or just above cost. Which robs sales from brick and moter stores who can in no way compete with the price mark
which in the long run can cause the demise of the store also eliminating the only place that many may have had to play. also eliminating the open promotion of the hobby in that area. And over time it will fade out to only a few people who even know what it is.
any way I hope I have exlaned well anuf to enlightend some and apoligize for ramballing god gifted me more in art then english.
I worked at a hobby shop for many years both doring internet sales and after the new GW policys and what it all comes down to is gw has promoted its hobby to where it is by the games being played the majarity of there customers are in to playing then the painting of the models and they are trying to protect the brick and morter stores that promot that and provid a plase for people to met play and get help in there hobby.
The problem is not the internet but the fact that most internet places where priceing there product at or just above cost. Which robs sales from brick and moter stores who can in no way compete with the price mark
which in the long run can cause the demise of the store also eliminating the only place that many may have had to play. also eliminating the open promotion of the hobby in that area. And over time it will fade out to only a few people who even know what it is.
any way I hope I have exlaned well anuf to enlightend some and apoligize for ramballing god gifted me more in art then english.
GW are probably already dead, but just don\'t know it yet...
Okay...cards on the table..My name is finn17 and I am a GW basher (Before Tammy reminds me )
This is just my opinion: GW became terminally ill a few years ago when their catalogue shrank from about 200-300 pages to approx 20-30 pages.
Remember the days when you could order the left leg of a Bretonian bowman or whatever? Their product range then was really big and characterful and appealed to people like us (me?) because you could buy from a wide range and customise to your hearts content.
The businessmen have now taken over from the artists though and their range has completely stagnated. None of their new races/models have improved markedly on what went before. For example: the new Ogres are completely crap compared to the old ones. Big, fat men with dustbinlids instead of belt buckles. No character and no humour at all. Very poor.
Prices...I said in another thread that I had been to a GW to buy a captain Shrike and Lysander for a friend and been appalled at the cost of 17GBP for two 28mm minis. Who is their market for christ\'s sake??? Kids can\'t afford those sort of prices. Bloody Hell!! I cant afford those prices!!!
I could go on....No really, I could...
The evidence is on this very site however...GW have been going since the 80\'s and on the Game-Specific forums for Warhammer and 40K their total posts come to 3030 at the time of writing. Rackham on the other hand are almost complete newcomers to the market and their Game-Specific forum has a total post count of 5288 at the time of writing. I could be over-rating the influence of CMON contributors....but if we are twice as interested inRackham as we are in GW...then what is the future likely to have in store for GW? Especially as I haven\'t even mentioned Privateer Press, Spyglass, Dark Ages, etc, etc.
As I said...it\'s all my opinion...but I think GW are \'Going Down\' and I personally can\'t wait to watch the scenario when the gits at the top finally get to realise this:flip:
Okay...cards on the table..My name is finn17 and I am a GW basher (Before Tammy reminds me
)This is just my opinion: GW became terminally ill a few years ago when their catalogue shrank from about 200-300 pages to approx 20-30 pages.
Remember the days when you could order the left leg of a Bretonian bowman or whatever? Their product range then was really big and characterful and appealed to people like us (me?) because you could buy from a wide range and customise to your hearts content.
The businessmen have now taken over from the artists though and their range has completely stagnated. None of their new races/models have improved markedly on what went before. For example: the new Ogres are completely crap compared to the old ones. Big, fat men with dustbinlids instead of belt buckles. No character and no humour at all.
Very poor. Prices...I said in another thread that I had been to a GW to buy a captain Shrike and Lysander for a friend and been appalled at the cost of 17GBP for two 28mm minis. Who is their market for christ\'s sake??? Kids can\'t afford those sort of prices. Bloody Hell!! I cant afford those prices!!!
I could go on....No really, I could...
The evidence is on this very site however...GW have been going since the 80\'s and on the Game-Specific forums for Warhammer and 40K their total posts come to 3030 at the time of writing. Rackham on the other hand are almost complete newcomers to the market and their Game-Specific forum has a total post count of 5288 at the time of writing. I could be over-rating the influence of CMON contributors....but if we are twice as interested inRackham as we are in GW...then what is the future likely to have in store for GW? Especially as I haven\'t even mentioned Privateer Press, Spyglass, Dark Ages, etc, etc.
As I said...it\'s all my opinion...but I think GW are \'Going Down\' and I personally can\'t wait to watch the scenario when the gits at the top finally get to realise this
:flip:
mickc22
Granddad!
According to top Economists...
\"...any business without an internet presence by 2010, is not serious about business.....\" or words to that effect & something along the lines of \"..will not be a business by 2012.....\" or something similar, you get the gist, I can\'t remember any names (basically I\'d have to go downstairs & hunt through the bookshelf)
\"...any business without an internet presence by 2010, is not serious about business.....\" or words to that effect & something along the lines of \"..will not be a business by 2012.....\" or something similar, you get the gist, I can\'t remember any names (basically I\'d have to go downstairs & hunt through the bookshelf)
But Mr. Finn... to play devil\'s advocate i must say, those were character models you bought. The bulk of the 4DK Army is made in troups, who cost a reasonable 2 to 3 bucks (american... local, for me at least) a peice. Very reasonable IMHO. 25USD for 10 of my Wolvies. And if you don\'t like the price for the bigger pieces (like titans and terran) then make your own! That\'s how i see it. Building a 4DK army didn\'t cost me my soul to the devil... and the game system\'s mighty fun. Oh, and the WYSIWYG rule\'s just plain silly. In fact, i\'m a WYSIWYDG (what you see is what you DON\'T get) warrior http://www.signorellis.com/warhammer.html That top paragraph pretty much explains it all
Braveheart712
New member
Not sure what the topic is, but should that matter?
OK, here are my opinions on the subject.
First, if you are using a reference to an existing product or company while making a distiction between yourself and them, you should be covered legally. For example, if you said \"Product \'X\' that can be used in miniture wargames such as Mordiem and 40K\", you would be covered under the law as I understand it. If however, you are representing your product as that of another company, or failing to draw a clear distinction, you are in violation. Remeber too how lawyers work. It is commonly known as the law of deep pockets. Lawyers only tend to sue when the monitary benefit is worth the effort. I highly doubt GW is gearing up there legal bloodsuckers to reign down on someone who is selling some knockoff buildings because the damage inflicted by that persons infringement would not pay for the filing fees on the lawsuit. However if the person who did this was making a large profit, GW might become more interested.
Second, it was brought up about how GW closed down the internet sellers and imposed price restrictions on discounting. Initially I was upset since I thought it was in clear violation of free trade, but after talking to a local shop owner I learned the following. He told me that internet sellers were driving him out of business in several ways. His in store sales had slipped since many customers went to the web where the discounts were greater than he could afford to sell at since he had costs like emloyees. building rent, etc, that many internet sellers did not have. He told me that if it continued taht he would have lost his store and I would have lost my gaming place. I know GW does allow its Rogue Traders to discount, but I think it is at a set limit of 10 to 15% under retail. I admit I would like to have the benefit of dirt cheap minis so I could collect everything I want, but I also understand the costs involved. Now GW\'s quarterly price hikes are a whole different topic, best summed up in the word GREED, but that is only my humble opinion. I too see the suits pushing out the artists at GW and it is sad....
Again, this is just my opinion..
OK, here are my opinions on the subject.
First, if you are using a reference to an existing product or company while making a distiction between yourself and them, you should be covered legally. For example, if you said \"Product \'X\' that can be used in miniture wargames such as Mordiem and 40K\", you would be covered under the law as I understand it. If however, you are representing your product as that of another company, or failing to draw a clear distinction, you are in violation. Remeber too how lawyers work. It is commonly known as the law of deep pockets. Lawyers only tend to sue when the monitary benefit is worth the effort. I highly doubt GW is gearing up there legal bloodsuckers to reign down on someone who is selling some knockoff buildings because the damage inflicted by that persons infringement would not pay for the filing fees on the lawsuit. However if the person who did this was making a large profit, GW might become more interested.
Second, it was brought up about how GW closed down the internet sellers and imposed price restrictions on discounting. Initially I was upset since I thought it was in clear violation of free trade, but after talking to a local shop owner I learned the following. He told me that internet sellers were driving him out of business in several ways. His in store sales had slipped since many customers went to the web where the discounts were greater than he could afford to sell at since he had costs like emloyees. building rent, etc, that many internet sellers did not have. He told me that if it continued taht he would have lost his store and I would have lost my gaming place. I know GW does allow its Rogue Traders to discount, but I think it is at a set limit of 10 to 15% under retail. I admit I would like to have the benefit of dirt cheap minis so I could collect everything I want, but I also understand the costs involved. Now GW\'s quarterly price hikes are a whole different topic, best summed up in the word GREED, but that is only my humble opinion. I too see the suits pushing out the artists at GW and it is sad....
Again, this is just my opinion..
Commissar Elvis
New member
Good info, Braveheart, thank you. As I definitely intend to be producing and selling \"terrain suitable for miniature wargames such as Warzone and Warhammer 40,000\" very soon (may the gods bless Bruce Hirst!), that\'s definitely good to know, and it surely didn\'t seem like any sort of ridiculous infringement to me. If anything, it\'s free advertising!
Second, what the hell does GW care if retailers are discounting a product that they already bought from GW. That\'s where the problem lies. GW stores have become something far removed from simply an outlet to sell GW products. They are muscling their way into markets in an attempt to become a monopoly (on their own product, granted, which unfortunately is not illegal). Who is going to buy from GW mail order or a GW store if they can hit the LGS or \"CaseysDirtCheapGWCrap.com\" for 10%+ under MSRP? Nobody...
But there\'s where the problem lies, and where the foolishness of trying to manufacture, distribute, market AND retail one\'s own product comes to light.
Granted, I\'m a pinko lefty and am for strict controls on business - but that\'s because I\'ve been screwed so much as a worker and now, finally, when I decide to say, \"Well, if ya can\'t beat \'em, join \'em\" I find out that without the obscene amount of capital necessary to open a brick and mortar store (which I have no intention of doing, as I\'ve been friends of the owner of the ONLY one in this county for nearly a decade now) that carries GW products, I simply won\'t be buying them from Games Workshop. How incredibly stupid is that?
No matter what GW does, it\'s not going to eliminate private sale of their product (i.e. Game Geek A decides that Orks are the \"worst army ever\" and sells it to Gamer B for ridiculously less than retail), nor are they going to eliminate people, including retailers, selling their product, at a discount, on eBay.
I\'ve assembled a fairly sizable Ork army in a relatively short time for less than $400. I\'d say I\'ve easily got 2500 points worth of models, and I bought the bulk of it on eBay. Am I undercutting, perhaps even hurting, the LGS? Indeed I am...but I cannot afford to piss money away at MSRP, and neither can other hobbyists who\'ve been around for 10+ years. When I have money to, quite literally, piss away then I shoot down to the LGS and buy some models - because the owner is my FRIEND and I don\'t expect him to welcome me with open arms when I game there on most Saturdays and he notices that I never buy anything but drinks!
While I\'m a bit disappointed that I will not be able to purchase direct from Games Workshop as a business, I\'ve decided that I\'m going to be extending a cordial invitation for GW to pucker up and kiss my large, white American posterior, at least when it comes to purchasing from them. The LGS can now order bits (they don\'t stock sh*t on the shelves anyway, and there are, luckily for now, NO GW stores in Florida), and I\'m feeling like I really need to pour my hard-earned cash into some greedy corporate pig\'s pocket, I can always buy something for retail - other than that, it\'s almost 100% in-community trades and private sale eBayers.
It appears that my only option is to begin dealing with more broad-minded and progressive outfits like Rackham and such. Hell, even Armorcast won\'t sell wholesale to me! WTF, over?! Maybe selling miniatures is going to be an impossibility, but we shall see. If it turns out that way, I\'m hardly sunk, since the miniatures part is only a sideline that I truly wanted to invest and participate in. I hope I don\'t have to tell the entire hobby industry to kiss my ass.
@Finn17 - I think we were separated at birth. You cannot be anyone but my twin brother. lol
@Itchy - US$2-$3 is NOT reasonable for a plastic infantry model! There was a time (lemme put on my Old Man Mask) when you got 36 plastic miniatures for $20! And no, they weren\'t crappy!
@NSA - Your buddy at Fark pegged it. Back to GW, price-points are fine, but here\'s where the problem is - GW\'s prices ARE inflated; look at every other manufacturer out there.
Second, what the hell does GW care if retailers are discounting a product that they already bought from GW. That\'s where the problem lies. GW stores have become something far removed from simply an outlet to sell GW products. They are muscling their way into markets in an attempt to become a monopoly (on their own product, granted, which unfortunately is not illegal). Who is going to buy from GW mail order or a GW store if they can hit the LGS or \"CaseysDirtCheapGWCrap.com\" for 10%+ under MSRP? Nobody...
But there\'s where the problem lies, and where the foolishness of trying to manufacture, distribute, market AND retail one\'s own product comes to light.
Granted, I\'m a pinko lefty and am for strict controls on business - but that\'s because I\'ve been screwed so much as a worker and now, finally, when I decide to say, \"Well, if ya can\'t beat \'em, join \'em\" I find out that without the obscene amount of capital necessary to open a brick and mortar store (which I have no intention of doing, as I\'ve been friends of the owner of the ONLY one in this county for nearly a decade now) that carries GW products, I simply won\'t be buying them from Games Workshop. How incredibly stupid is that?
No matter what GW does, it\'s not going to eliminate private sale of their product (i.e. Game Geek A decides that Orks are the \"worst army ever\" and sells it to Gamer B for ridiculously less than retail), nor are they going to eliminate people, including retailers, selling their product, at a discount, on eBay.
I\'ve assembled a fairly sizable Ork army in a relatively short time for less than $400. I\'d say I\'ve easily got 2500 points worth of models, and I bought the bulk of it on eBay. Am I undercutting, perhaps even hurting, the LGS? Indeed I am...but I cannot afford to piss money away at MSRP, and neither can other hobbyists who\'ve been around for 10+ years. When I have money to, quite literally, piss away then I shoot down to the LGS and buy some models - because the owner is my FRIEND and I don\'t expect him to welcome me with open arms when I game there on most Saturdays and he notices that I never buy anything but drinks!
While I\'m a bit disappointed that I will not be able to purchase direct from Games Workshop as a business, I\'ve decided that I\'m going to be extending a cordial invitation for GW to pucker up and kiss my large, white American posterior, at least when it comes to purchasing from them. The LGS can now order bits (they don\'t stock sh*t on the shelves anyway, and there are, luckily for now, NO GW stores in Florida), and I\'m feeling like I really need to pour my hard-earned cash into some greedy corporate pig\'s pocket, I can always buy something for retail - other than that, it\'s almost 100% in-community trades and private sale eBayers.
It appears that my only option is to begin dealing with more broad-minded and progressive outfits like Rackham and such. Hell, even Armorcast won\'t sell wholesale to me! WTF, over?! Maybe selling miniatures is going to be an impossibility, but we shall see. If it turns out that way, I\'m hardly sunk, since the miniatures part is only a sideline that I truly wanted to invest and participate in. I hope I don\'t have to tell the entire hobby industry to kiss my ass.
@Finn17 - I think we were separated at birth. You cannot be anyone but my twin brother. lol
@Itchy - US$2-$3 is NOT reasonable for a plastic infantry model! There was a time (lemme put on my Old Man Mask) when you got 36 plastic miniatures for $20! And no, they weren\'t crappy!
@NSA - Your buddy at Fark pegged it. Back to GW, price-points are fine, but here\'s where the problem is - GW\'s prices ARE inflated; look at every other manufacturer out there.
Braveheart712
New member
\"Attention...Elvis has now left the forum....\"
Drake Farstrider
New member
Wow, C.E. that was alot.
It\'s pretty simple if they won\'t do business with you then screw them! I mean if they are afraid of on line discounters who get their stuff 2nd hand, then they should grow up!
I wonder if they would be willing to work with an online seller that did not offer discounts on GW stuff?
It\'s pretty simple if they won\'t do business with you then screw them! I mean if they are afraid of on line discounters who get their stuff 2nd hand, then they should grow up!
I wonder if they would be willing to work with an online seller that did not offer discounts on GW stuff?
S
Shadzar
Guest
ok i can not find where i read a judge stating precedent that \"internet not a viable place to sale....\"
but i have fount the part where GW IS violating the anti-trust act. be it on the internet or not.
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/foia/divisionmanual/ch2.htm
Clayton Act section 2 article f:
and whther they want to call it helping the brick and mortor stores or not, they are price fixing, by not allowing people to sell their product online, and discriminating from competition. internet vs brick and mortor sales competition.
and in this world today you have to be able to compete with the internet for said reason above...eBay.
well i hope soeone figures it out and sues GW for discrimination of healthy competition of sales.
maybe if we all online got together and made a class action lawsuit agaisnt them. (at least the US portion of GW) then they will have to pay out $5k per each such person in fines. OR maybe those internet retailers (such as i was until this whole thing put me in the poor house) will get back the right to sell their \"personal tangible property\" however and where ever at whatever price they see fit (my GW merchandise 30% off retail. so i got a really nasty email from them)
in the least likely possibilty GW will have to do like the music industry did and pay out monies to each person who bought their product at higher \"fixed\" prices. (i got my check for $12 did you?)
again so sorry for hijacking your thread freakinacage. it was not my intent. i just wanted to warn you as you are a new seller to eBay.
but i have fount the part where GW IS violating the anti-trust act. be it on the internet or not.
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/foia/divisionmanual/ch2.htm
Clayton Act section 2 article f:
and whther they want to call it helping the brick and mortor stores or not, they are price fixing, by not allowing people to sell their product online, and discriminating from competition. internet vs brick and mortor sales competition.
and in this world today you have to be able to compete with the internet for said reason above...eBay.
well i hope soeone figures it out and sues GW for discrimination of healthy competition of sales.
maybe if we all online got together and made a class action lawsuit agaisnt them. (at least the US portion of GW) then they will have to pay out $5k per each such person in fines. OR maybe those internet retailers (such as i was until this whole thing put me in the poor house) will get back the right to sell their \"personal tangible property\" however and where ever at whatever price they see fit (my GW merchandise 30% off retail. so i got a really nasty email from them)
in the least likely possibilty GW will have to do like the music industry did and pay out monies to each person who bought their product at higher \"fixed\" prices. (i got my check for $12 did you?)
again so sorry for hijacking your thread freakinacage. it was not my intent. i just wanted to warn you as you are a new seller to eBay.
Drake Farstrider
New member
Nice article Shadzar.
Commissar Elvis
New member
You guys are my heroes. Most other forums where \"concerns\" about Games Workshop are brought up simply devolve into \"It\'s too much money\" on one side and the \"Love it or leave it\" simpletons on the other side.
I\'m chalking up the difference here on the assumption that most of us are either adults or late teens. I get so tired of people doing nothing but spouting opinions and never doing any research, citing any sources, NOTHING.
Here, this is obviously not going to be a worry. I can\'t tell you all how refreshing this is! :bouncy:
To be fair, it\'s not just Games Workshop. As mentioned above, Armorcast most likely will not sell to me wholesale unless I have a brick and mortar store, and a large hobby distributor (I do not remember the name off hand, but I can look it up) states, right on their main page, that you are required to be a brick and mortar store and provide photos, interior and exterior before you are allowed an account with them! They also state that this is due to a provision in their agreement with Wizards of the Coast! :wow:
It\'s actually starting to sink in here - the large manufacturers/distributors have formed an unholy alliance to deny anyone but people with massive overhead (i.e., brick and mortar stores) access to their products at wholesale prices, be they businesses or not!
I don\'t prattle on about business sales without grounding, either. I\'m simply a sole proprietorship at the moment, but the fact remains, I have a Florida Tax ID number and am considered a business in the State of Florida. Whether I sell anything or not, I still have to file my taxes monthly (yech, that needs to be done for February - even if it is $0 for last month).
I\'m literally concerned, on legal grounds, about this refusal to allow accounts. I\'m obviously not going to try to sue anyone, and even if I did, the legal might of the industry giants would obviously find some loophole, send lobbyists to the Bush administration to eliminate \"Intarweb seller discriminationism\", and a judge would laugh at me and probably hit me with contempt for \"wasting his/her time.\"
On the other hand, why haven\'t class action suits been organized? With the recent passage of legislation taking multi-state class action suits out of the hands of state courts and placing them under Federal jurisdiction, I doubt anything would come of it, but I still have the nagging feeling that a nationwide case of circumvention of business law is taking place.
@Braveheart - You scared with that post for a moment - at first glance I thought it meant I would be banned for my previous post! lol
@Drake - Thanks! And no, according to TheWarStore (which as far as I know, is not brick and mortar), GW has banned \"internet sales from a website with a shopping cart.\" eBay has no shopping cart, hence retailers often sell their items at discounts via eBay. I bought a Tau Army box and several other new items via eBay, but I try to buy used but either unassembled at best or nothing-but-primer at worst (though sometimes deals are too good to pass up). I\'ve gotten a lot of downright STEALS from private collections on eBay. I guess GW doesn\'t care, because they\'ve already been paid twice - once by the retailer, and again by the customer (or at least they\'re pleased that their Chain of Command was adhered to ).
@Shadzar - No, godd****t, I didn\'t get my $12 check! Strange that, since I filled out three separate applications for three separate addresses. To make matters even worse, my initial inquiry to Games Workshop regarding whether or not \"virtual\" businesses could purchase direct from GW has gone unanswered for over a month now. I may call them and find out straight from the horse\'s mouth. At the very least I could be surly and demand to talk to someone\'s supervisor! lol
I\'m chalking up the difference here on the assumption that most of us are either adults or late teens. I get so tired of people doing nothing but spouting opinions and never doing any research, citing any sources, NOTHING.
Here, this is obviously not going to be a worry. I can\'t tell you all how refreshing this is! :bouncy:
To be fair, it\'s not just Games Workshop. As mentioned above, Armorcast most likely will not sell to me wholesale unless I have a brick and mortar store, and a large hobby distributor (I do not remember the name off hand, but I can look it up) states, right on their main page, that you are required to be a brick and mortar store and provide photos, interior and exterior before you are allowed an account with them! They also state that this is due to a provision in their agreement with Wizards of the Coast! :wow:
It\'s actually starting to sink in here - the large manufacturers/distributors have formed an unholy alliance to deny anyone but people with massive overhead (i.e., brick and mortar stores) access to their products at wholesale prices, be they businesses or not!
I don\'t prattle on about business sales without grounding, either. I\'m simply a sole proprietorship at the moment, but the fact remains, I have a Florida Tax ID number and am considered a business in the State of Florida. Whether I sell anything or not, I still have to file my taxes monthly (yech, that needs to be done for February - even if it is $0 for last month).
I\'m literally concerned, on legal grounds, about this refusal to allow accounts. I\'m obviously not going to try to sue anyone, and even if I did, the legal might of the industry giants would obviously find some loophole, send lobbyists to the Bush administration to eliminate \"Intarweb seller discriminationism\", and a judge would laugh at me and probably hit me with contempt for \"wasting his/her time.\"
On the other hand, why haven\'t class action suits been organized? With the recent passage of legislation taking multi-state class action suits out of the hands of state courts and placing them under Federal jurisdiction, I doubt anything would come of it, but I still have the nagging feeling that a nationwide case of circumvention of business law is taking place.
@Braveheart - You scared with that post for a moment - at first glance I thought it meant I would be banned for my previous post! lol
@Drake - Thanks! And no, according to TheWarStore (which as far as I know, is not brick and mortar), GW has banned \"internet sales from a website with a shopping cart.\" eBay has no shopping cart, hence retailers often sell their items at discounts via eBay. I bought a Tau Army box and several other new items via eBay, but I try to buy used but either unassembled at best or nothing-but-primer at worst (though sometimes deals are too good to pass up). I\'ve gotten a lot of downright STEALS from private collections on eBay. I guess GW doesn\'t care, because they\'ve already been paid twice - once by the retailer, and again by the customer (or at least they\'re pleased that their Chain of Command was adhered to
). @Shadzar - No, godd****t, I didn\'t get my $12 check!
Strange that, since I filled out three separate applications for three separate addresses. To make matters even worse, my initial inquiry to Games Workshop regarding whether or not \"virtual\" businesses could purchase direct from GW has gone unanswered for over a month now. I may call them and find out straight from the horse\'s mouth. At the very least I could be surly and demand to talk to someone\'s supervisor! lol