Nazi Costumes?

[Godlikebuthumble]

Germany\'s Penal (teehee) Law is pretty clear on that (following the ACC guidelines established after the war):

excerpt, bad translation by yours truly:
§ 86a Use of symbols of unconstitutional organisations

1) Punishable with prison terms of up to three years or fine is any person who,

1. inside the country, spreads or publicly (in assemblings or publicated writing acc. to § 11 point 3) uses Symbols of one of the Parties or organisations described in § 86 pts. 1 Nr. 1, 2 and 4, or who,

2. Inside the country, produces, stores or exports items containing or depicting such symbols for use or distribution within or without the country according to the way described in Nr. 1

(2) Symbols in the meaning of point 1 are specifically flags, insignia, uniform pieces, slogans and greeting formulae. Equivalent to the symbols named in sentence 1 are such as are similar to the point of confusion.



So, badly translated legalese aside, any of the OP incidents (as well as the Walmart lady), would be liable for hard time or a hefty fine in Germany. While understandable, this does make for a kind of arms race between federal organs and crafty (sorta) neo-nazis (or even other groups). Lonsdale sweaters, for example, used to be popular with those guys for a while, because a jacket worn over it would still reveal the LO|NSDA|LE, and to a nazi, that\'s 4/5 of NSDAP... so yeah.

Personally, while I think the SS dress uniforms (apart from riding pants) looked pretty awesome for the time compared to other militaries\' (small wonder - designed by Hugo Boss of all people), wearing any kind of 3rd Reich uniform (outside of sanctioned dramatic context like plays, movies, and, possibly, conventions) is, by historical context alone, if not by law, way beyond simple bad taste.

/wall of text

 

[AegisD]

Originally posted by DXM
Some people here do not see the offense protraying a Nazi or displaying that Swastika. Some or most here do not have a direct link to WW2. Most are separated by a Generation.My Mom and Dad lived through the war and saw what the Nazi represent. I\'m not just talking Holocaust. The first troop though your area were the trained professional the second wave were the rejects. They would line up 100 villagers and execute them because some Germans were killed. My Mom\'s cousin who survived an execution squad.

I can\'t imagine living through that... Much less seeing it myself.

My grandfather was part of the Navy nuclear division involved in project crossroads. I actually have some of the original Navy prints (or had, my deadbeat uncle has them right now, and may have lost them :evil: ) from the Able and Baker tests too. And he died of a plethora of cancers about a decade after his discharge because of the massive doses of radiation taken by everyone present during the testing.

Every time I think about the war, I wonder how things would have been different if it just never happened. I realize that nuclear weapons still would have arisen eventually, but I wonder how long we could have avoided unleashing such a monster....

But overall, I still think there\'s a massive difference between a theatrical costume worn for a certain occasion (like a play, Halloween, re-enactment, etc.) and people like the girl from the wal-mart pic.

 

[ScottRadom]

As we get further and further away from WWII and into an age where we don\'t cast our enemies as cut and dry as we did then it kind of goes two different directions with me.

-We mostly seem to be in an agreement that painting, playing with, or even dressing up as \"the bad guys\" is fine if it is done in a way we seem to agree is not glamorizing the horrors of the war. Really though, is it possible to just for fun put on an SS uniform and pretend to kill people without glamorizing this part of the past? Maybe even a little bit? I\'ve played a Hitler youth company in Flames of War with rules built in that allows you to keep throwing them into the meatgrinder because of their unswerving loyalty to the Fuhrer. I\'m fine with it, but even typing it just now did sort of make me feel a little guilty.

-My family is German. My Dad was born in Berlin and I am the first Radom not born in Germany in a loooooooong time. My living Opa served (he was 16 at the end of the war and surrendered his first time in \"action\") and I have a dead great uncle who was a full on whack job true believer SS who made it home from Russia in \'53. If my Opa EVER heard of me wearing an SS uniform he would kick the shit out of me. Actually he wouldn\'t, as he\'s old as hell and I would keep working circling him to the left taking advantage of his hip replacement and bad eye, but you get the idea. For some the wounds are fresh, but I haved a feeling that fine young lady in Wal-Mart wearing the red sweatshirt doesn\'t have any sort of inherited experience of the horrors of that particular regime.

But, waddaya do? Do we sweep it all under the rug and not ever talk about it? Can we make jokes about it to lessen the impact (as we talked about regarding terrorism in another thread)? It does puzzle me that I see in soem crappy magazines that you can order a confederate army commemorative pin from companies in the States celebrating the army that lost the war, or that you can buy a flag proclaiming \"The South will rise again\". I know the South and Nazi\'s are NOT the same, but is it only because of the distance of time?

 

[slah]

I don´t really care to be honest...

It´s not important what you wear - the important thing is what you do.

If you want to wear a german uniform because you think it´s cool I would think it a bit weird, but if you´re not out in the street attacking jews, homosexuals or handicaps then I´m not judging.

I for one don´t think \"sweeping\" the war under the rug is gonna help anything. Nor do I think that passing laws against wearing certain styles of clothing helps. That only confirms the \"opressions\" as seen by the real fanatics - making them even more fanatic because they are \"opressed\" by the \"evil state\".

 

[Spacemunkie]

I have no idea what all the fuss is about. A bunch of students having a laugh in the same vein as Basil Fawlty in the \'Germans\' episode.

 

[freakinacage]

i have to say, the uniform itself doens\'t bother me, like i say, they looked pretty smart

as for the whole atrocity thing, ghenghis khan, attila the hun, alexander the great, not to mention other, all had pretty big empires, all won through bloodshed. maybe not as cold and lethal as ww2 etc but still prtty bad. i feel fairly confident that no one would consider their uniforms to be bad taste?

i think its a question of \'time heals all wounds\' and it\'s getting to the point whereby it\'s too distant for the current generations to appreciate. which is why its all the more important that we dont sweep it under the carpet

 

[nels0nmac]

I have a mate who was/ maybe still is in a WW2 re-enactment group, specifically the SS Waffen. The majority of the group dressed in the typical army fatigues but they did have some officers in the group who had the black SS uniforms. From the ones I met they were all good people and did not have illusions of Facism being the way to go. On the whole they did it because they liked the uniform. To be honest a lot of them were far from being the the perfect Aryan people - the driver of their halftrack was fat and gingerlol

An intersting day was when they were asked by the BBC to be seen driving and marching around Whitehall ( the government area of London ) as part of a documentary. It was funny to see that the guys in black SS gear were ; far from being reveiled, constantly being asked by tourists to have their picture taken.

 

[Niall]

These people are just playing the baddies. it\'s all a bit of fun. They aren\'t real nazis...
Harry had a swastika on his jacket but was this not a party where he was photoed? There is a huge difference between wearing a pretty cool jacket (the allies and especially the British had bad uniforms) and wanting to enslave the world.

A symbol is only a bad thing when it is linked to bad events. Much the same as a swear word or a racist word aren\'t bad unless they are used in context.


I personally find it more odd that model makers sculpt figures of (barely) clothed females with their breasts hanging out, than somebody playing fancydress as the ultimate baddie!

 

[AegisD]

Originally posted by Niall
I personally find it more odd that model makers sculpt figures of (barely) clothed females with their breasts hanging out, than somebody playing fancydress as the ultimate baddie!

Speaking of which, why do people freak out about that too? Granted, if I went over to a friends house, and the place was filled with tiny, naked women, I would be a bit suspicious myself. But I\'ve painted half naked, and naked, men and women before; I still have a lot of my original work up in the attic somewhere too. All of which was perfectly acceptable from a social standpoint, yet I\'ve seen and heard people freak out over miniatures that aren\'t much if any different really. I even had one person tell me recently, that they\'d like a mini of mine more if I \"sculpted a dress for it\". I got a kick out of that.