imperium evil?
- Thread starter inquisitor88
- Start date
Flashman14
New member
Aye .. I\'ve always seen them as a cohesive whole - in that the removal of any one of those makes the other two meaningless. Now I don\'t intend those to be absolutes but it\'s a fair measure for me when determining the evil of a nation/planet/galaxy. 
lol
lolIt\'s not evil! It\'s beset on all sides by enemies that\'ve been trying to destroy it\'s empire for several millenia. They\'ve had to go to extreems to ensure that the people running the place don\'t have the taint of chaos, and that they don\'t try to run the imperium into the ground by useing it for their own misdeeds. Any heretic found is summerily executed, the whitch hunters are the only smart ones. Why kill a man, when you can have him kill for you until he dies.
The Imperium is a perfect example of a fascist/ totalitarian regime, far worse than the Nazi\'s, in fact:
First, there is no sense of democracy. The people are given their leaders. The idea of an election seems like ancient history. Sound familar?
Heroes and the like are glorified to the point of legend. The Imperium pumps a great deal fuel into rousing the fire of the typical citezen, playing on theri fears and wants. Propaganda is rampant. Again, typical actions of Nazi\'s.
They have an Inqusition. Enough said, th ough it\'s closer to the Gustapo of the Nazi\'s.
Scapegoats. Man\'s problems are the cause of Aliens, heretics, and Chaos. THe Nazi\'s blamed the Jews.
Tech priests. They have the full backing of the Imperium. Fascists love their industry.
The millitary machine is unstoppable and a symbol of the state: Space Marines. Hey, and the Nazi\'s though about making super-soldiers too.
Blatant disregard for human life.
The levels of intolerance, propaganda, secret gov\'t agencies, millitary/ industral machine all add up. I would hazard to say that the Imperial machine is more evil than Chaos (which is simply madness and mutation with a hint of malice).
You thought the Nazi\'s were bad? They couldn\'t virus-bomb planets. The Imperium, given the fluff, is essentially Nazi germany in space. Not cool, IMO. Not cool at all.
Hey, look, that\'s just what the Nazi\'s thought too! Just replace a few words here and there, and you have what might have been an attempt to justify the actions of Hitler.
I personally find the Imperium disgusting. As much as I love the game, I would very much like to see the Imperium\'s fluff undergo a drastic change. While I recognize that some people are mature enough to see that you can\'t apply the morals of the Imperium in real life, there are those who can\'t. It\'s likley not intentional on GW\'s part, but fascism is not something that should be glorified in any form. I might sound paranoid, but based on the post above and many others, I don\'t think it\'s healthy that people don\'t realise that saying \'FOR THE EMPEROR\' is the 40k equivalent of \'HEIL HITLER\'.
What a first post!
First, there is no sense of democracy. The people are given their leaders. The idea of an election seems like ancient history. Sound familar?
Heroes and the like are glorified to the point of legend. The Imperium pumps a great deal fuel into rousing the fire of the typical citezen, playing on theri fears and wants. Propaganda is rampant. Again, typical actions of Nazi\'s.
They have an Inqusition. Enough said, th ough it\'s closer to the Gustapo of the Nazi\'s.
Scapegoats. Man\'s problems are the cause of Aliens, heretics, and Chaos. THe Nazi\'s blamed the Jews.
Tech priests. They have the full backing of the Imperium. Fascists love their industry.
The millitary machine is unstoppable and a symbol of the state: Space Marines. Hey, and the Nazi\'s though about making super-soldiers too.
Blatant disregard for human life.
The levels of intolerance, propaganda, secret gov\'t agencies, millitary/ industral machine all add up. I would hazard to say that the Imperial machine is more evil than Chaos (which is simply madness and mutation with a hint of malice).
You thought the Nazi\'s were bad? They couldn\'t virus-bomb planets. The Imperium, given the fluff, is essentially Nazi germany in space. Not cool, IMO. Not cool at all.
Hey, look, that\'s just what the Nazi\'s thought too! Just replace a few words here and there, and you have what might have been an attempt to justify the actions of Hitler.
I personally find the Imperium disgusting. As much as I love the game, I would very much like to see the Imperium\'s fluff undergo a drastic change. While I recognize that some people are mature enough to see that you can\'t apply the morals of the Imperium in real life, there are those who can\'t. It\'s likley not intentional on GW\'s part, but fascism is not something that should be glorified in any form. I might sound paranoid, but based on the post above and many others, I don\'t think it\'s healthy that people don\'t realise that saying \'FOR THE EMPEROR\' is the 40k equivalent of \'HEIL HITLER\'.
What a first post!
raginggaijin
New member
Well said
Well said. Same argument I used to get my best friend to change from Space Marines to Chaos.
Evil Space Hippies! WOOT!
Well said. Same argument I used to get my best friend to change from Space Marines to Chaos.
Evil Space Hippies! WOOT!
Smoth
New member
Lokithwe- I whole heartedly agrea. Let me add some more reasons that I also dispise the humans(chaos is typicaly called non-human) of 40k. Virus bomb is one thing, I cannot get over exterminatus, it is manual planetary \"cleansing\" through the deployment of troops OR planetary bombardment. The fact that they will anihilate whole worlds if the people of that world want to be independant. People in the imperium sacrifice(literaly) themselves to the emperor/machine that rules man on a daily basis. It is in the 40K rule book.
40K has humans as bitter, hatefull close minded machines who live with the illusion that they are serving some greater purpose. when in the end all they are doing is causing more of themselves to die.
Through a joining of humans, eldar and TAU I am sure most of the orcs could be killed off first. Then dark eldar, the NIDS and final then the forces of chaos can be adressed. However that will never happen. I think the fiction is setup like it is for that reason even though I hate it.
Personaly I never finished the 40K rule book and I do not know the rules because of the imperium. I was reading all the fluff with the rules and I imeadiately was sick of the whole concept.
I didn\'t want to play the game then the TAU came out and I liked their view. I am an anime fan BUT I don\'t like the crisis suit design much at all, my army is still getting painted because 50% of my army is modded.
Dedwrekka- that is why I chose tau.
40K has humans as bitter, hatefull close minded machines who live with the illusion that they are serving some greater purpose. when in the end all they are doing is causing more of themselves to die.
Through a joining of humans, eldar and TAU I am sure most of the orcs could be killed off first. Then dark eldar, the NIDS and final then the forces of chaos can be adressed. However that will never happen. I think the fiction is setup like it is for that reason even though I hate it.
Personaly I never finished the 40K rule book and I do not know the rules because of the imperium. I was reading all the fluff with the rules and I imeadiately was sick of the whole concept.
I didn\'t want to play the game then the TAU came out and I liked their view. I am an anime fan BUT I don\'t like the crisis suit design much at all, my army is still getting painted because 50% of my army is modded.
Dedwrekka- that is why I chose tau.
I think we just hit on the dark and sinister feel to the \'heros\' of 40k. I\'m pretty sure I\'ve read a whole raft of junk from the developers at GW that were talking about moving back to the older roots in the background of their games for 3rd and 6th eddition 40k and fantasy because they were a little sick of the glossy image things like the space marines had fallen into. The idea now is to make the \'heros\' seem as bad as the villains, a severe blurring of the lines. I mean come on, who was the more interesting hero, Batman or Superman? :flip::bouncy:
raginggaijin
New member
Batman. Hands down.
He didn\'t kill the criminals though.
Dragonsreach
Super Moderator
D\'accord.
The Dark Knight. Best ever, driven and almost borderline sane hero.
TwelveMilesOut
New member
Ahem. I count nineteen very personal hand-to-hand killings (mainly neck-related) and an entire zeppelin crew? Maybe you mean the movies.... er... nevermind. You must mean the live-action TV show. Yeah, that\'s it. Adam West never \"Ka-Pow\"ed anyone to death.
That Batman\'s one bad mutha... shut yo mouth! But, I\'m talkin\' \'bout Batman... I can dig it!
So if the Empire is evil and you like Batman...convert some space marines with pointy ears and the bat symbol and Voila!! the Bat marines. They can be fighting the evil in the empire.
Really though, it\'s just a game about racial war (as is WHFB).
edit ...
In other words why worry about it?
Really though, it\'s just a game about racial war (as is WHFB).
edit ...
In other words why worry about it?
Chrispy
New member
Okay, this just hit me even though I kinda knew about it in the back of my mind and it just now clicked.. And it\'s about the Emperor\'s godhood. Up till know, I\'ve seen the 40K universe as more Renaisannce-like, with the Emperor like a Christian symbol. However, in the old Roman days, an Emperor that died was considered a God. Obviously, we can argue that since he is not up and kicking, he\'s not really \"living\", so humanity enshrined him as a God. But his death is also an obvious allusion to Christ on the cross. I guess GW likes to keep it ambigous to keep us guessing, but I think maybe a misenterpretation of who/what the Emperor was/is by the Chaos marines may have lead to their fall..
Whatever, I\'m just trying to get my rational though for the day out and done with..
Whatever, I\'m just trying to get my rational though for the day out and done with..
S
smoochie51
Guest
There is definitely a Nazi feel to the Imperium...which is why I assume the Tau were introduced as the good guys with a completely different perspective. I don\'t think the Imperium way of life is glorified by GW. It\'s shown as freaky and dark with the universe being a cruel place. I kinda liked the idea of no good guys. A bit like real life, I guess.
All emipires/armies are warring, for various reasons. Basically though, it comes down to controlling space, expanding their own empires or exacting revenge for prior wars. As each group pushes forth into different sectors and captures planets, they bring with it their own ideology, and on whatever level, enforce it on the locals. So, who, if any group, is good, or for that matter evil? Each empire is doing what is \"right\" for their own. In short, you have 8 or more \"races\" all attempting to attain the same goals.
Now, alot of 40k history has been written, the fluff has generally been fairly dark and violent, but that is why we are here reading and playing this no? I wouldn\'t have been playing and collecting 40k on and off for 16 years if it was about how nice it was to be a trader on a luxury planet. It is a question I ask myself, who tends to the Chaos guys. Do they have barbers? Is there such things as Tzeentch pizza places?
I am sure that all the \"other\" stuff that populates the 40k universe exists, and I am sure that the people of various races have nice lives, just like us, but when it comes to the story lines, who cares.
Now as for the Imperium being Nazi-esque, perhaps. There has been more history told from an Imperium view, and in my opinion I don\'t think that alot of the paranoia has filtered down to the everyman. Would the Imperium really let its populace know of all the threats to it? Likely not.
Finall, orbital bombardment, in whatever form. I like it, it is about time someone took initiative and made a statemnt.
EDIT__________
After a reread of that, I thought I should add....
The Imperium shouldn\'t really look all that nice anyway. People need a good reason to fight against them (not in game terms, but IRL). The negative emotions that have been added here about the Imperium of Man can be found towards other races as well.
I personally dislike elves and eldar. Have for a long time. It has something to do with the little twiglike false prettiness thing. Pretentious, that is what I get from elves, or maybe the people that play them.....
Tau is another one I dislike, the new \"good\" army. I dislike them cause they have that passive aggressive thing going on. That story I read in the Tau Codex about the Imperium planet they were taking over pretty much sealed that I wouldn\'t have a Tau force (I will eventually have a Kroot one mind you).
Now, alot of 40k history has been written, the fluff has generally been fairly dark and violent, but that is why we are here reading and playing this no? I wouldn\'t have been playing and collecting 40k on and off for 16 years if it was about how nice it was to be a trader on a luxury planet. It is a question I ask myself, who tends to the Chaos guys. Do they have barbers? Is there such things as Tzeentch pizza places?
I am sure that all the \"other\" stuff that populates the 40k universe exists, and I am sure that the people of various races have nice lives, just like us, but when it comes to the story lines, who cares.
Now as for the Imperium being Nazi-esque, perhaps. There has been more history told from an Imperium view, and in my opinion I don\'t think that alot of the paranoia has filtered down to the everyman. Would the Imperium really let its populace know of all the threats to it? Likely not.
Finall, orbital bombardment, in whatever form. I like it, it is about time someone took initiative and made a statemnt.
EDIT__________
After a reread of that, I thought I should add....
The Imperium shouldn\'t really look all that nice anyway. People need a good reason to fight against them (not in game terms, but IRL). The negative emotions that have been added here about the Imperium of Man can be found towards other races as well.
I personally dislike elves and eldar. Have for a long time. It has something to do with the little twiglike false prettiness thing. Pretentious, that is what I get from elves, or maybe the people that play them.....
Tau is another one I dislike, the new \"good\" army. I dislike them cause they have that passive aggressive thing going on. That story I read in the Tau Codex about the Imperium planet they were taking over pretty much sealed that I wouldn\'t have a Tau force (I will eventually have a Kroot one mind you).
