Grainy primer?

[Alowan]

Hi everyone, since the help here so far have been amazing I wanted to ask a question about my primer.

I bought a white GW primer and primed my figures but found the result a bit grainy on close inspection so I went to the GW store and talked to them. The guy I talked to looked at some of the parts I had brought with me (accidentally those where the parts that were least effected) and tried to paint on it. His conclusion was that it was normal and as should be.

I went home and primed my next set of figures, but due to the fact that I am starting to try to work with really thin layers as well as improve in general the "graininess" on my figures are starting to make me worry. I don't know if it would have an effect when the figure is painted but I wanted to ask what you guys think.

I have added a few images. The first is mainly to show the scale/zoom on the rest.

View attachment 14332

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Input would be highly appreciated.

 

[Einion]

As you might expect, best to take what some staffer says with a pinch of salt when it concerns a product where they have a vested interest. Despite that, this might be normal for GW primer... but you can expect a lot better!

Anyway, depending a bit on where you are you should easily be able to find an alternative product (automotive primer or another type of spraycan primer from the DIY centre or hardware store) that's at least as good, but for less money, but more likely one that's better for less money.

Since you don't want to waste the rest of what you already have, there are a few things you can do to improve the way the primer goes down.

The first issue might be that you're spraying from a little too far away, which allows the droplets of primer to partly dry on the way to the model's surface; so try spraying with the can a little closer. Second thing is one of those things you'll hear everywhere when it comes to using stuff in a spraycan - make sure you shake it enough. That means shaking the heck out of of it for at least a minute or two, not 'a minute or two' (we've all done this believe me).

The last is to warm the can up a little, in hand-hot water. This might not make much difference if it's quite warm where you are currently but it's a good general tip, especially for colder parts of the year when priming can be more troublesome - when it's cold warming up the can could mean the difference between perfect results and unusably rough.

Einion

 

[Alowan]

Thanks for the great answer. (I have had great benefit of your comments on paints etc. on these forums too)

I will try the tips next time I prime with the GW one.

My dad is an auto mechanic and they have lots of automotive primers laying around - but I have been a bit hesitant to use those for models in fear that they will ruin the figures.
The sprays at DIY stores is rather cheap (1/5 of the GW one) but again I have been afraid to use it.

But as you might have guessed I have not felt satisfied with the result when priming (partly because I have seen smother surfaces when priming car parts (which a bit bigger).


P.s I can live with throwing away my can if it means better results (since I am just beginning to paint again and taking my time doing it I don't want to feel that I could have had a better result had I just had a better primer) (I might find a use for it somewhere else).

Once again thanks for the answer.

 

[AndyG]

Throw it away it's crap. Humbrol grey primer bang on stuff oh and the reason it's the fifth the price is that GW are a bunch of rip off merchants lol

 

[Wombat85]

AndyG hit it on the head, this is normal for there primer and though you can try for better results save yourself and take my word that I have tried to get it to work and it just doesnt. Humbrol or testors are the way to go for guaranteed smooth results.

 

[freakinacage]

Chuck it, get some halfords grey, cheaper and better quality

 

[Alowan]

I really want a new primer, but I am having a hard time choosing what to buy instead of the GW.

I feel a bit insecure about what I can buy in my local DIY store, and took a short look in another hobby store nearby. They have army painter and vallejo at 1/2 the price of the GW.
Still have a hard time believing the the "brands" after the GW fiasco and could use some advice.

Maybe there is a spray on amazon.co.uk you could suggest or some points for what to look for when buying a primer at the DIY stores?

I would prefer it to be white - have always painted on black - but after trying white I feel it gives me a better result (any pointer there too would be appreciated).


Edit: looked at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rust-Oleum-...3PSQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341883514&sr=8-1

 

[Eryops]

After a grainy experience with GW primer, I've pretty much switched to Vallejo's brush on primer. Take that with a grain of salt though, as I've found over the last few years I haven't been painting enough to justify batch priming.

I did find that taking a dry toothbrush to the grainy minis helped remove a lot of the graininess without seeming to compromise the primer. Anyone who thinks this was a bad idea, please speak up!

EDIT: Just a thought - you could bring your spray can into the store, and have one of the employees spray a sprue or two and see if he's doing something you're not. If he gets everything grainy, sounds like a free can of primer or refund.

 

[Einion]

Welcome Alowan, glad to try to help!

P.s I can live with throwing away my can if it means better results (since I am just beginning to paint again and taking my time doing it I don't want to feel that I could have had a better result had I just had a better primer) (I might find a use for it somewhere else).

Yes, that texture could be advantageous for groundwork maybe, or doing something weathered/rusted.

The spraycan primer I generally recommend for the UK is Hycote, because it's one of the cheapest while the quality is great. If you can't find it locally Halfords is a decent alternative - it was and may still be made for them by Hycote - but it's quite a bit pricier (still cheaper than GW though).

That Rust-Oleum stuff is probably fine, and £5.34 into your hand is a decent price.

But here is the Hycote stuff at £4.90 also on Amazon.co.uk. I've seen Hycote for as little as £2.99 online, but that's before shipping.

Throw it away it's crap. Humbrol grey primer bang on stuff oh and the reason it's the fifth the price is that GW are a bunch of rip off merchants lol

AndyG hit it on the head, this is normal for there primer and though you can try for better results save yourself and take my word that I have tried to get it to work and it just doesnt. Humbrol or testors are the way to go for guaranteed smooth results.

Dudes, you do realise that Humbrol or Testors primers will be overpriced too? All stuff specifically geared for the hobby is inherently expensive, you can get spray primer a lot cheaper at the hardware store while not compromising on quality of finish.

Einion

 

[Einion]

I did find that taking a dry toothbrush to the grainy minis helped remove a lot of the graininess without seeming to compromise the primer. Anyone who thinks this was a bad idea, please speak up!

If it helps it helps! When I've accidentally gotten rough primer in the past and I haven't wanted to go the whole hog stripping and re-priming I've worked over the surface with a fibreglass eraser and even a bit of fine steel wool (0000). This is incidentally a good indication of how tough primer can, and maybe should, be since you can do this without it coming off easily.

EDIT: Just a thought - you could bring your spray can into the store, and have one of the employees spray a sprue or two and see if he's doing something you're not. If he gets everything grainy, sounds like a free can of primer or refund.

Great idea.

Einion

 

[RuneBrush]

It sounds like you're in the UK so the current weather is likely to affect your spray quite a bit.

For those outside the UK our summer currently consists of torrential rain and lots of flooding!

 

[PegaZus]

If your dad is an auto mechanic, you've got a source, go try out their primers they have and find one you like. I haven't had any issues with the auto primer I've bought from car part stores. It won't harm the models. Well, as long as it isn't some two part primer you have to mix up. No guarantee on that.

 

[Alowan]

Thanks for the tips guys. I brought the spray can to the store and he looked a some stuff I had sprayed and said it was fine - please not the zoom on the images - since we are talking very small detail here.

The auto paint primer is something you mix - so that might not work.

I live in Denmark, and have sprayed when the weather was sunny.


I will try the toothbrush trick - I tried something rougher but then the paint don't stick. (I prefer small grains to non sticking paint)


@Einion thanks for the link, that sounds great. I can't seem to find a white one, would you suggest the grey one? I really like how fast very thin layers show on white, and the general feel/look of a white primed figure as a starting point. Heard grey should be the best of both worlds (black and white) but any thoughts?

 

[airhead]

Your Dad's spray primers generally are reduced with enamel reducer or lacquer thinner. Both are almost guaranteed to make your plastic models dissolve.

Use one of the cheap rattle cans. Don’t soak the model.

Rustoleum tends to go on thick.

P.S. Clean up your mold lines before you prime.

 

[Alowan]

Your Dad's spray primers generally are reduced with enamel reducer or lacquer thinner. Both are almost guaranteed to make your plastic models dissolve.

Use one of the cheap rattle cans. Don’t soak the model.

Rustoleum tends to go on thick.

P.S. Clean up your mold lines before you prime.

I always clean mold lines like a crazy person (I use way to long time just to remove the tiniest mold lines)

Hycote it is then..

P.s. went to GW again and talked about the primer - saw a few of their figures primed with white (even with a layer of black first) had the same grains (we are talking grains that are less than 0,5mm in size - just gives the overall appearance of a grainy surface). (again see the images, the circular thing on the first image is about 4-5mm) He told me that is how their white looks - their black doesn't show it the same way.

So I will buy a hycote when I figure out what color

Until then I will train on my now grainy figures (maybe try the toothbrush thingy).

 

[Einion]

@Einion thanks for the link, that sounds great. I can't seem to find a white one, would you suggest the grey one? I really like how fast very thin layers show on white, and the general feel/look of a white primed figure as a starting point. Heard grey should be the best of both worlds (black and white) but any thoughts?

I love grey, my favourite primer colour, but it's totally a matter of taste. And for some colours starting from white is a definite advantage.

Since I can't easily find the white version here either what I do if I want to work from white is prime as normal with the grey and then airbrush the figure with white, mostly from above.

Einion

 

[Alowan]

Thanks for the reply I will try grey then

Really need to start using my airbrush (got it a few years back to paint a model car) The white I have was thinned with normal water by a GW employee (was really thick when I opened it) so I will have to get a new one though. But the spray effects I have been googling looks really great and would be hard to replicate with a brush (if not impossible) and would IMO be a better starting point for a white figure than pure white.

Would have been helpful for what I am currently training on (trying to paint a white/grey space marine to challenge myself - it's my second mini since I started again.. ) Also showed that a toothbrush removed the worst of the graininess and give me a fine starting point. At my current level I actually don't know how big a difference another primer would make as long as I only add really thin layers. But I will try to buy and see if it does if not I will have a primer for when it does matter..

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[OLDCell]

I tried the GW primer but did not like it so moved to Vallejo Primer, I find I can get a much better spray and cover with just a few passes from about 30cm away. Also it's dry to the touch very quickly and by the time I have done a few models I can start to actually paint the first model.

Both the white and black primers give a good base to paint on, and doing a light black cover and then a very very fine white cover over a mini gives a great base for pre-shading.

 

[Einion]

Really need to start using my airbrush (got it a few years back to paint a model car) The white I have was thinned with normal water by a GW employee (was really thick when I opened it) so I will have to get a new one though. But the spray effects I have been googling looks really great and would be hard to replicate with a brush (if not impossible) and would IMO be a better starting point for a white figure than pure white.

Yes, some things that are hard or nearly impossible to do by brush an airbrush can do with ease. Best reason to have one!

Been meaning to say, since you're not in the UK are there not any sources locally that you could look for a primer in? There's bound to be something equivalent in nearly any market since the need for automotive primer is universal.

Helmet's looking good so far. One thing I would recommend is doing most of the broad work over the whole figure before tackling the finder details on one area, it makes it a little easier to keep things consistent. On the other hand, armour can be made up from disparate pieces so it doesn't have to be completely uniform.

Oh and, stop handling the mini directly! Mount it on something so you don't get finger grease on the primer, rub paint off etc. The simplest option is just a wine cork or a small piece of dowel, but eventually you should probably make a simple holder of some sort - they're easily built up from various common materials (lots of links in my post in this prior thread).

Einion

 

[Routaporsas]

What comes to those pictures and that grainy result I would say that you have sprayed too close and too much. The spray can also be faulty, but I have sometimes in the past got similar results when spraying too close and too much (namely when spraying plastic models). Specially that bolter looks like you have sprayd too close for it has small cracks as well which may be result of a too thick coat.

Not a raving fanboy of GW, but I have use GW white and black "primers" for about 15 years and I have had one faulty can of bad stuff. Perhaps there are some cheaper stuff, but so far those brand x primers I have used, have not actually been that good for miniatures. Vallejo and Army painter primers are supposedly good. I have one can of army painter primer, but have to be rather carefull with that one. For instead of spraying approx. 30cm away, you have to bring the can closer or the result will be much more grainy that what you have got.