Golden Demon, classic or modern?

[jahminis]

nice that some people are respondin\' to something i posted...bein\' new to the forums, it\'s good to know people really read these things...
first off, let me say that i am a huge fan of jes\' work...pourin\' through his sketchbooks has always been a joy and an inspiration...he\'s a cool guy to sit and chat with, and his sculpts have stood the test of time better than most...the only thing that really bummed me out, was that the colors other than the grey were all in the studio scheme(black, red, and white)...at least he took my jokin\' with him in stride...
what i have learned about the approach to winnin\' a demon is only about 75% of the formula...the other part is totally random...it has a lot to do with who shows up on the day...the judges can only select from what is in front of them, so if you bring your best paintjob, and find yourself up against one or two \"pro-painters\", then you are likely to walk away with a bronze(which is the same trophy, just in a different color, so who cares...you will still have a demon in your display case, and your pics published, even if they do always spell your name wrong)...natalya wins trophies \'cause her paintin\' and convertin\' are f\'in amazin\'...tom schadle wins for the same reason(such as his blood ravens librarian), but even his sub-par tau(hopefully he will agree with me on this assessment) win, \'cause he fits in with the \"total hobby\" formula...
sometimes we see minis that are not top-notch win trophies...if there are only two great minis that fit the formula in the judges eyes, then the third mini will be the best of what\'s left in the category...some categories have a huge amount of stunnin\' minis, such as the single mini categories(very hard to win)...units and regiments usually have one or two amazin\' entries, and a load of entries that are on par with the hobbyist level...so the guy who doesn\'t consider himself a pro-painter is better off paintin\' a unit...

@lizcam...i hate rules too...i been a rebel since day one...
golden demon is not a paintin\' contest...it is a showcase for the hobby(which includes convertin\')...gencon\'s contest is much more about the figs since there is such a huge amount of companies represented(and most have special manufacturer awards)...the judges have not seen 500 versions of the eldrad mini, and so would not be as likely to have a conversion jump out and grab their attention...any local con(origins, kublacon, and many others) is much more likely to be a place where pure paintin\' is appreciated more than the \"total hobby\" aspect...

at the end of the day(and this is directed at everybody), you can\'t win if you don\'t enter...games day is cool, \'cause you get a limited mini, there is a forgeworld store, and you get to meet with artists and designers...hell, you dudes might even run into a real girl or two!!! if you walk away with a trophy, so much the better...if the goal is just to win a demon, you gotta follow the rules, try to sus out the formula, and do your best to stand out from the crowd...
havin\' said all that, i won bronze with an inquisitor scale kal jerico mini that was just painted for fun, and happened to be in my case on the day...what i call a throwaway entry...not one mini i have painted specifically for the demons has won(so close yet so far...first loser again!!!)...so maybe it\'s all just a crap-shoot!!!

cheers
jah

 

[hakoMike]

Well, just for perspective...

One of the staff winners at Chicago GD today was a Squat in power armor!

 

[Tinweasel]

@ hakoMike - yes, it was, and a very good one, too. A Squat in Power Armor (although it wasn\'t the classic \"easter egg\" variety sculpt from back in the day) that I believe must\'ve been custom-made - not as round as I remember them.


Just to put things in perspective, too - I entered an OOP Genestealer Patriarch in 40K single miniature and it received an honorable mention and was definitely in the top 5 out of all the figures (there were quite a few former Demon winners who had entries, so I\'m thrilled to say the least!) The judges I talked to about my figure and their opinions on it seemed genuine as to why it didn\'t rank a bit higher and the reasoning was all painting-related, which after discussing their opinions I can definitely agree with. (Stuff like extra painting I did on the base crystals not helping me out, the appearance of the skin as compared to other areas of the figure, etc.)

If it is a figure popularity game as to what receives an overall award, that didn\'t seem a factor for my entered figure sculpted around 1990 or so. (The \"stalking\" Patriarch pose.) One thing specifically mentioned, though, was the details on the figure - if you\'re going to put in an old school mini, you definitely want to use one that has a crisp scupt/casting as being able to do sharp highlights and detail work as definitely a consideration.

 

[Talonicus]

Well I think a more recently released mini does help to slightly tip the balance in your favour. It certainly seems like that to me in the uk at least.
I am not sure about it being to do with sales though. Because surely if it was to help sell more of the little guys they wouldn\'t keep placing complete sculpts top in the main categories.
I look through the past 5-6yrs of winners at UK GD and so many of the winners are scuplts. It would be nice to have just a painting category, no conversions, plain base..... just good painting.
Oh and while I am moaning about UK GD I get annoyed about the inconsistant application of the rules. Bases sizes, number of figures, joint entries to name a few.

Anyway back on topic. Certainly paint an oop mini, I just think it will be highly unlikely that it will place 1st.

Nigel

 

[Jakob Nielsen]

Haven\'t read through the whole thread but in regards to OOP minis I believe that a very relevant question is \"is the miniature up to todays standard?\" And this goes for all such things like casting quality, fluff, and imagery.

With this in mind if I was to enter an OOP miniature I would probably be sculpting a few extra details to the mini and converting it.

 

[lahatiel]

More perspective: the Silver Demon for WHFB Regiment in Baltimore this year went to a Blood Bowl team, of all things. Don\'t get me wrong, I was very happy to see that (even though I actually didn\'t care much for the paint job, myself), given that Blood Bowl is my primary painting interest. But it certainly throws yet a curveball at the \"only models that are being pushed win Demons\" conventional wisdom.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Everyone settel down...

First off its a contest about good painting..new or old figures doesnt make as much a differance.

Newer figures do tend to be better sculpts so they do paint up nicer I will admit that.

Most important its to remember paint models that follow the games workshop developed universe..

 

[Crackpot]

Well I think I also made a GD entry just for the gutter...
I thought it would be a good idea to take some old \"classic\" models and modify them a bit. I thought these models will be very unique at the GD and noone else will have them, but when I read through this post I think a made a BIG mistake...
It was fun painting some old models,
cause there are some classic models from GW i really like, they are very atmospheric. But, well at last a GD seems to be just another marketing event...

 

[Crackpot]

-- Damn, douple post ---

 

[Roger Bunting]

Well, as the slayer sword in Chicago went to a self sculted piece for a character that you can\'t field in any game and there are no models of him in production by GW, I think you may be just fine.

 

[Torn blue sky]

Meh, it does seem to be a massive corporate advertising drive these days i guess. For some reason, pesonally, I dont\' find the Slayer Sword as big an accolade as I used to.
Awesome artists win it , true, but sometimes for what I think are the wrong reasons...I dunno, GW seems like such a let down these days.

 

[skeeve]

Originally posted by Crackpot
Well I think I also made a GD entry just for the gutter...
I thought it would be a good idea to take some old \"classic\" models and modify them a bit. I thought these models will be very unique at the GD and noone else will have them, but when I read through this post I think a made a BIG mistake...
It was fun painting some old models,
cause there are some classic models from GW i really like, they are very atmospheric. But, well at last a GD seems to be just another marketing event...

Come to think of it... may be Dragon Forge is right and the correlation with new miniature preference that I seem to see is a false one.
It could be as simple as entrant\'s desire to paint newer minies rather then older ones (plus the sculpt quality as well). Otherwise, first cuts and non-placed entries would be full of classic models rejected by GW, and this is not the case, really.

 

[demonherald]

Originally posted by Roger Bunting
Well, as the slayer sword in Chicago went to a self sculted piece for a character that you can\'t field in any game and there are no models of him in production by GW, I think you may be just fine.

That sums it up and what Jeff said...
any model will make it as long as the background is there... A lot of classic models while nice just don\'t fit anymore and are in a different direction from where GW is now...A lot of people see it as a corporate drive and a sales con but it ain\'t the fact of the matter is a lot of the newer sculpts are nicer and open up new possibilities...true there is often trends with current releases but the same can be said on this very site...new shiny models excite painters...new books with new background give more inspiration...

last years slayer winner albert moreto font and his amazing orc was just a sheer display of skill Orcs were getting relesed true but that wouldn\'t have factored into the prize decision....The comp is run by the studio not retail half of those guys don\'t even know what is currently out as they are already working on things sometimes years away.

 

[painterboyroy]

old vs new

lets just hope to see some new faces winning for a change and not the same OLD ones.!!!!!!! UK GD that is..:cussing:

 

[doomsayer]

I had thought about submitting the old Citadel Toad Dragon I have, but that idea just kinda lost steam along the way.

 

[jahminis]

it\'s good to see that this is a lively debate...i have put a lot of thought into my gd philosophy...it\'s been a few years of enterin\' and about 20 years of watchin\' mini paintin\' develop...
i still think that the main idea is correct...there is about 50 -75% pure hobby showcase approach to judgin\' goin\' on, and about 25-50% pure crapshoot...as i said, who shows up on the day is a big part of the result...
the most important thing to remember is that if you don\'t enter, you can\'t win...so anyone should feel free to do what they like, and take their chances...it\'s a hobby, not life or death...
i make a decent livin\' off paintin\' in the industry, and i don\'t have a gold demon, or a sword...if i had a sword i would take it down to my nearest studio, and demand better pay!!!
the main point in the start of this thread, which seems to have gotten lost along the way, is that this dude is gonna enter the youngbloods category...this is a category that is definitely won by the best painter to show up on the day...the model chosen has not seemed to be as big a factor in past results, but clean paintin\' has been rewarded...
as for the other categories, i think that conversion, back banners(this is a little inside joke), and stickin\' to the gw fluff, combined with great paintin\', are the main ingredients in the formula...the rest is up to luck...
conversion does not have to be heavy...just sculptin\' on a couple little details, or a weapon swap can be enough to stand out from the crowd...
i think the main thing that has been said by judges countless times, is that they are lookin\' for something that is painted well, and evokes the gw universe...of course, this can be open to a million different interpretations, so this is where the crap shoot factor comes into play...
as an aside, if painters are not into converting and just like straight sculpts, paint it, have fun, and see what happens...you might get lucky...one idea to keep in mind is that the lord of the rings categories don\'t seem to be so geared towards the conversion aspect of the hobby...a lot more straight sculpts, than conversions in the past results...
more fuel for the fire...

cheers
jah

 

[generulpoleaxe]

Originally posted by painterboyroy
lets just hope to see some new faces winning for a change and not the same OLD ones.!!!!!!! UK GD that is..:cussing:

they are the guys that put a lot of time into their entries.
often started up to a year before hand and steadily working on them leading up to the competition they are entering it into.