Critique, please.
- Thread starter baudot
- Start date
baudot
New member
That one was done on purpose. Menoth's "sanguine" red has a lot of blue in it. It's nearly a purple. Moving it up the Value axis to a brighter shade leads to a reddish pink. Orange or yellow are a twist around the Hue axis of the HSV graph. Yellow is the opposite of purple on the color wheel.
I'll echo what everyone has said. Fair play to you for posting and requesting feedback, it's the best way to improve (that and practise!)
Thin your paints. Not too much paint on your brush, I found wiping on a sponge stopped the brush picking up fibers from the tissue/kitchen paper
Add more contrast, when you think you've highlighted/shaded enough push it a bit more. Lining areas will help define them better. Try not to use straight black on brighter colors, just use a darker shade, eg, dark brown when lining yellow etc.
This tutorial helped me a lot when I was starting out. It's from Aaron Lovejoy and really helps explain blending, paint consistency and brush control. (Hope it's ok to link to another forum)
http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/32050-how-to-blend-by-olliekickflip/
Thin your paints. Not too much paint on your brush, I found wiping on a sponge stopped the brush picking up fibers from the tissue/kitchen paper
Add more contrast, when you think you've highlighted/shaded enough push it a bit more. Lining areas will help define them better. Try not to use straight black on brighter colors, just use a darker shade, eg, dark brown when lining yellow etc.
This tutorial helped me a lot when I was starting out. It's from Aaron Lovejoy and really helps explain blending, paint consistency and brush control. (Hope it's ok to link to another forum)
http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/32050-how-to-blend-by-olliekickflip/
baudot
New member
Well folks, I need your help understanding this one. I posted another mini last night. I thought it was my best work yet. All the paint's inside the lines. (Magnifying lenses - they work!) I've got subtle shading, even highlighting cheekbones and shading between fingers. There's tons of little details, from the different color metals on this mechanik's different tools.
And it's getting the worst reviews of any model I've done yet.
So what is it that people are hating about it? I don't see it, and I need to.
View attachment 52476
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Now there's a couple things I'm aware of that could be dragging this guy down. The lighting conditions during photography were harsher. I wasn't wild about the satin sealant, and the gloss it put on this guy. And finally, he's meant to be a non-flashy model. He's a mechanik, not the star of the army. Plenty of dull leather in this guy's color palette.
But I look at him next to models I painted just weeks ago, and I see all the ways I've picked up my game while painting. But that doesn't seem to be what anyone else is picking up on.
So yeah, what is dragging this fig down for you? Really. I wanna understand.
And it's getting the worst reviews of any model I've done yet.
So what is it that people are hating about it? I don't see it, and I need to.
View attachment 52476
View attachment 52477
View attachment 52478
Now there's a couple things I'm aware of that could be dragging this guy down. The lighting conditions during photography were harsher. I wasn't wild about the satin sealant, and the gloss it put on this guy. And finally, he's meant to be a non-flashy model. He's a mechanik, not the star of the army. Plenty of dull leather in this guy's color palette.
But I look at him next to models I painted just weeks ago, and I see all the ways I've picked up my game while painting. But that doesn't seem to be what anyone else is picking up on.
So yeah, what is dragging this fig down for you? Really. I wanna understand.
It's definitely better then others you posted before so that's very positive as you're already improving!
The photo is really not helping. A lot of the detail is lost. The colour scheme needs a tweak as it seems very warm (browns and bieges) which are all tending to blend together. If you add a little blue somewhere, like a sword pommel or a gem it will add a little more contrast and give the eye something interesting.
You have really nice blending on the front are marker on the base so you know you can do it and it is much cleaner and neater then before so good work!
The photo is really not helping. A lot of the detail is lost. The colour scheme needs a tweak as it seems very warm (browns and bieges) which are all tending to blend together. If you add a little blue somewhere, like a sword pommel or a gem it will add a little more contrast and give the eye something interesting.
You have really nice blending on the front are marker on the base so you know you can do it and it is much cleaner and neater then before so good work!
JohnLobster
New member
I'm definitely learning from this thread 
I suspect the photo is most of the problem
Why did you use a satin seal ? I think it is a big problem. If you can get it, dullcoat is wonderful. I airbrush on very thin layers of the Vallejo RC polyurethane Acrylic which I prefer. The tip I figured out recently is that if you have areas that are supposed to be gloss after matt seal, then use a little gloss varnish, but only gloss the highlights.
I think you have too low a resolution in the photos.
Just throwing out ideas but you would probably benefit from finding a focal point in the miniature (face or weapon maybe ?) and trying to make other areas point into that, either through highlights/shades or colour selection
You have done a good job - nice mini. I don't like the two tone base and as a "display miniature" I expect people would mark that down
John
I suspect the photo is most of the problem
Why did you use a satin seal ? I think it is a big problem. If you can get it, dullcoat is wonderful. I airbrush on very thin layers of the Vallejo RC polyurethane Acrylic which I prefer. The tip I figured out recently is that if you have areas that are supposed to be gloss after matt seal, then use a little gloss varnish, but only gloss the highlights.
I think you have too low a resolution in the photos.
Just throwing out ideas but you would probably benefit from finding a focal point in the miniature (face or weapon maybe ?) and trying to make other areas point into that, either through highlights/shades or colour selection
You have done a good job - nice mini. I don't like the two tone base and as a "display miniature" I expect people would mark that down
John
baudot
New member
Thanks for the observations, Webmonkey and JohnLobster.
So far all of my minis shots have been with just a phone camera. My nice camera has been out on a loan to a friend for the few weeks I've been posting here. (And if I really wanted to go crazy on better photography, I'd need to pick up a macro lens for that camera. But I'm thinking I'm not ready to drop the dollars on that for just this one purpose.) Once I get the nice camera back, I can take control of ISO, aperture, etc..
Yeah, the satin finish is rubbing me the wrong way too. I went into Games of Berkeley to pick up fresh cans of primer and sealant, and that's what they handed me. It was Army Painter brand, which I've had good times with so far, so I didn't double check the label. I'll be setting that can aside and going back to matte sealant for most future minis, I think.
And back to breff's point, I'm looking over the next mini (the blacklined Hierophant you can see in my WIP thread) and picking a few places to put cool colors on it, for contrast. Right now, the idea I'm on is a bright lapis lazuli band among the silver of his face mask. Menoth's color palette is supposed to be warm, and so picking a few cool-color accents is going to be tricky, but oh so worth it for making the warm colors stand out that much more. Other suggestions for cool color interest points, very welcome.
So far all of my minis shots have been with just a phone camera. My nice camera has been out on a loan to a friend for the few weeks I've been posting here. (And if I really wanted to go crazy on better photography, I'd need to pick up a macro lens for that camera. But I'm thinking I'm not ready to drop the dollars on that for just this one purpose.) Once I get the nice camera back, I can take control of ISO, aperture, etc..
Yeah, the satin finish is rubbing me the wrong way too. I went into Games of Berkeley to pick up fresh cans of primer and sealant, and that's what they handed me. It was Army Painter brand, which I've had good times with so far, so I didn't double check the label. I'll be setting that can aside and going back to matte sealant for most future minis, I think.
And back to breff's point, I'm looking over the next mini (the blacklined Hierophant you can see in my WIP thread) and picking a few places to put cool colors on it, for contrast. Right now, the idea I'm on is a bright lapis lazuli band among the silver of his face mask. Menoth's color palette is supposed to be warm, and so picking a few cool-color accents is going to be tricky, but oh so worth it for making the warm colors stand out that much more. Other suggestions for cool color interest points, very welcome.
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Dragonsreach
Super Moderator
Looking at this photo there are several things that I can see you could look to work on for your next figure.
Firstly I see that the paint could still do with more dilution as is still looks rather 'creamy' in texture especially in the skin tone.
Don't worry about paint being too thin, several thin coats are much more preferable than too thick a single coat.
Next is lighting and shadows, highlighting a figure by just picking out the raised areas is "OK" but a figure is depicting a real figure just smaller so the curves of the shape change the highlighting and where the shadows/darker areas occur.
You might want to consider that as a 'tradition' model painter highlight as if the light scource is at 45 degrees to the vertical of the figure. This will also change the light pattern of the figure.
Think of it like this:-
1 is the lightest of areas such as the head, shoulders, upper chest and raised surfaces of the arms,
2 is slightly darker and would be the lower surfaces of the arms, under the chin and neck, lower chest/stomach and upper thighs
3 is slightly darker again and would be legs, calves and boots.
Now to even add complication with round (ish) shapes where two surfaces come together such as an arm and the chest the "valley" where the two meet will have its own micro shadow, similarly where straps cross a body they themselves occur a micro shadow which is where 'dark lining or black lining' comes into play.
Now I've found that working initially on an area with the mid tone colour I'm using then glazing in shadows and working up highlights gives me the best results.
But the best thing you can do is continue painting, ask for advice and and ignore the scores for the moment.
At this point you need to only paint for yourself and not to please us, after all it's your model and you need to feel happy with it.
baudot
New member
Thanks, Dragonsreach. That's also very actionable feedback. Again, much appreciated.
This fig didn't have blacklining, and I didn't want to "restart in the middle" to add it, but rather to get on to the next fig, which is very much an exercise in blacklining. (Thanks for the lesson again, Webmonkey!)
And rest assured, I'm not going to let the discouragement of bad ratings stop me from painting. It's very much a goal of mine right now to learn what makes a mini a good mini in other people's eyes. I know what I like. I know the styles I'm not going to indulge in (hyper-contrast, mostly) or the things I view as cheats that I'm going to mostly avoid (making a fig that story-wise should be drab pop for no reason) and I'm comfortable getting my ratings dinged for that. I'm also only aiming to reach "beautiful play piece" quality, not display pieces, and again, I expect that to show in my ratings. So I'm not getting discouraged. Once I get done with today's commitments, it's back to painting the next mini.
I've got two goals on working on with these minis:
This fig didn't have blacklining, and I didn't want to "restart in the middle" to add it, but rather to get on to the next fig, which is very much an exercise in blacklining. (Thanks for the lesson again, Webmonkey!)
And rest assured, I'm not going to let the discouragement of bad ratings stop me from painting. It's very much a goal of mine right now to learn what makes a mini a good mini in other people's eyes. I know what I like. I know the styles I'm not going to indulge in (hyper-contrast, mostly) or the things I view as cheats that I'm going to mostly avoid (making a fig that story-wise should be drab pop for no reason) and I'm comfortable getting my ratings dinged for that. I'm also only aiming to reach "beautiful play piece" quality, not display pieces, and again, I expect that to show in my ratings. So I'm not getting discouraged. Once I get done with today's commitments, it's back to painting the next mini.
I've got two goals on working on with these minis:
- Paint faster. Get a tournament sized army ready to play at a reasonable speed.
- Figure out what other people like in minis. I know what I like. If I want to make a minis game myself in the future, I need to know how to please other people's tastes, not just my own! And as I've said before, there few better ways to make the feedback stick than to really invest myself in making minis pretty. That beats the XP I'd get from just chatting in forum groups!
Dragonsreach
Super Moderator
Baudot, no problem, always glad to help.
JohnLobster
New member
I disagree. The main problem with photographing minis is that lenses typically will not focus close enough. This can be solved better by using extension tubes. They can be fairly expensive for an autofocus camera, but will still be useful if you decide to buy a macro lens. The macro lens is optimised for close difference and is only important for a professional who wants to get the ultimate sharpness
If you're getting good enough results, no reason to spend more money (on photography that is, painting hobby is different of course)
John
baudot
New member
I get "good enough" results when I have the fancy camera by just cropping to size, for small subjects. Cropping into a detail like that makes the pictures prone to blurring if there's any shake while taking the shot, so the second-order compromise is to add even more light so the shutter time can be lowered. This has worked well for me in the past.
Dragonsreach
Super Moderator
Tripod and remote shutter release will reduce vibration.
But I'm not convinced a Macro lens is THE way to go. I have one and in 8 years have only used it twice.
But I'm not convinced a Macro lens is THE way to go. I have one and in 8 years have only used it twice.
airhead
Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
What he said.
For a tabletop army, they are very good.
For a painting comp piece, listen to the advice given.
Take the camera back away from the mini and zoom in to frame the mini. Cropping loses detail. (a mini in full frame uses all x megapixels - cropping a fourth of the pic away only leaves x/4 megapixels.) 20 MP photo becomes a 5 MP photo.
Tripod & timed delay on the shutter (most mid value & up cameras have this feature.)
If you are using a device (phone/tablet), most only digitally zoom (crop) but most can be voice activated (say "shoot" or "pic" when in camera mode).
Josh The Stampede
New member
Macro lenses are for photographing dewdrops on flowers and mosquito eyes. They're way overkill on the stuff we do and make even great work look bad.
You dont need to have blinding color contrast to make a mini look good. Even a mini full of desaturated browns and greys can still have a lot of interesting variation and tone and detail. As far as where to put cool colors on a warm mini! Try adding some blue or green to the shadows in your browns, or some purple or green to the shadow on reds.
You dont need to have blinding color contrast to make a mini look good. Even a mini full of desaturated browns and greys can still have a lot of interesting variation and tone and detail. As far as where to put cool colors on a warm mini! Try adding some blue or green to the shadows in your browns, or some purple or green to the shadow on reds.
JohnLobster
New member
And I keep getting interesting ideas - thanks baudot for starting this thread !!
I think improving and painting faster are conflicting goals. I would learn to get the results you want before figuring out what can be simplified (or batched) to get faster. I'm a historical gamer (now I know I'll get kicked out) and I have some armies in 10mm and 15mm - for these I have developed a faster approach and I use my 28mm character figures to improve my painting skills. They take a lot longer to paint.
Incidentally on lighting, my eyes are old (official diagnosis) and I use lots of lights to paint. This is just the thing for photographing minis which appeals to my wallet.
John
baudot
New member
Point. The Menoth mnis I paint are shaded with blue on their red parts. (And for the most extreme shadows have a little green on the off-white parts.) But there's still plenty more room to slip cool colors into the shadows. Good point, sir.
Thri Keen Priest
New member
These figures lack delineation. That's the main issue. Also, the photos are very choppy. Try pulling the camera back and zooming in rather than getting the camera too close to the mini.
