Critique, please.

[baudot]

I would love your critique on my work. Is it even average for the site? It is not. Will you hurt my feelings? You will not.

I want to know what on the figs catches your eye.

You tell me, what specifically is dragging these figs down for you? What skill would you challenge me to work on next?

If there's something redeeming about the figs, some quirk or bit of style you'd like to see me keep as I work on my skills, it would be useful to hear the specifics of that, too.

My gallery:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/baudot

 

[MAXXxxx]

Is it even average for the site? It is not.

Actually it is
Even with the negatively pointed 4.7 is about half-way (average) for a scoring of 1-10

I want to know what on the figs catches your eye.
You tell me, what specifically is dragging these figs down for you? What skill would you challenge me to work on next?

Atm there is nothing really that catches my eye. They are nice gaming minis that are more than "just paint 3 colors and done".

What could be improved:
- shades on metals, easiest to remedy with a dark wash
- lot of colors are patchy with the black under it visible. Mostly the reds, especially visible on the base edges. I'd say you need one or two more layers of the base color to start with a really opaque base. Also looks like you missed a few spots (on the crusader, the arm connections look like black)
- clean up surfaces with the base color after a wash: mostly visible on the crusader
- accuracy on colors, but you already noticed this. It really helps to take pics before sealing the minis. To be honest you can fix things even after that, then you'll have to reseal.
- prep work, dust and finger. Some missed prep work is especially visible on the crusader. Mouldline on the head and arm, some flaky thing on the left arm, where you scraped the mouldline off.
Dust: visible on the warjacks. Try to have a dedicated place for painting and clean it regularly (if painting takes over several days, then it also helps to cover them betwen sessions).
Finger: there are some whiteish spots on the edges of the warjacks, that I suspect come from handling and paint rubbing off. You could try getting a mini-holder to avoid touching it as much as possible.

- basing: ok this is a personal choice and I don't find it bad, but some might see it as too plain and reduce the score because of it.


Also you write being slow painter. That's not really a problem (unless you need everything painted for a game), but some things that may help:
- paint in batches, so same colors at the same time over a unit/battlegroup.
- use paints that cover well (less layers to paint for a solid base color). Usually P3/ArmyPainter/GW-Base/VallejoGame-Heavy colors are a good choice.
- Wash where you want it to be darker, not on the whole area (makes cleanup in next step easier), but don't get slowed down to be too accurate, the wash can slip and cover more than intended
- clean up after the wash with the base color. At this point it should already look decent.
- decide if you paint to play or display. If for play then a simple edge highlight is enough (maybe 1-2 layers of HL on clothes and such), if for display... well in that case time/speed will be totally irrelevant.

 

[baudot]

Thanks for the response, MAXXxxx. Mind if I pick your brain on how to improve?

What could be improved:
- shades on metals, easiest to remedy with a dark wash

Most of the metals are washed with GW "Nuln Oil" or dilluted Vallejo "Sepia" ink already, actually. (Generally nuln oil for the iron, and sepia for the bronze.) Still not popping in these pics, huh?

- lot of colors are patchy with the black under it visible. Mostly the reds, especially visible on the base edges. I'd say you need one or two more layers of the base color to start with a really opaque base. Also looks like you missed a few spots (on the crusader, the arm connections look like black)

It's not black showing through; the figs were primed white. On the Crusader, that's a heavy wash of nuln oil that was allowed to settle in between the pistons of the arm connectors.

- clean up surfaces with the base color after a wash: mostly visible on the crusader

This makes complete sense to me. Yet I've had a hard time blending the colors back, in practice. When I've tried this in the past, the line where I started re-applying the base coat is very obvious, completely un-blended. If you have any links to tutorials on this technique, I get the feeling I'm missing something really simple. Probably something about the right way to thin the paint so that edge between re-based and washed doesn't pop so hard.

On my most recent fig, a Vassal of Menoth, (picture waiting on approval presently) I hit this problem. I tried to bring the brightness on his shirt back up after washing to highlight the chain, but the brush strokes were just too visible.

- prep work, dust and finger. Some missed prep work is especially visible on the crusader. Mouldline on the head and arm, some flaky thing on the left arm, where you scraped the mouldline off.
Dust: visible on the warjacks. Try to have a dedicated place for painting and clean it regularly (if painting takes over several days, then it also helps to cover them betwen sessions).
Finger: there are some whiteish spots on the edges of the warjacks, that I suspect come from handling and paint rubbing off. You could try getting a mini-holder to avoid touching it as much as possible.

I've got some blu-tack on order presently, so I can try some of the basing-during painting tricks folks talk about. You're quite right that up until now, I've just been handling them during the painting process, and it tends to knock paint off the edges.

For a dust-free zone, I may be out of luck. My apartment is one big room; a loft; and I also do woodworking in here. The air pretty much always has a bit of sawdust in it.

- basing: ok this is a personal choice and I don't find it bad, but some might see it as too plain and reduce the score because of it.

I'm looking forward to trying out some more advanced asing on later models; at least, once I'm next doing a 'jack or 'caster.

- use paints that cover well (less layers to paint for a solid base color). Usually P3/ArmyPainter/GW-Base/VallejoGame-Heavy colors are a good choice.

I'm using some P3 paints, and some Vallejo. There's also just a few GW paints in the mix. Sounds like I just need to do more layers, since the paint is already solid brands.

- decide if you paint to play or display. If for play then a simple edge highlight is enough (maybe 1-2 layers of HL on clothes and such), if for display... well in that case time/speed will be totally irrelevant.

My minis are definitely for play, and yet I'd like them to go well above and beyond the standards for that. It's always fun to compare paint work before a game. For a more custom army than my current paint-by-numbers Menoth force, there's usually a story behind why they're painted the way they are, too.

Nochmal, danke für die hilfe.

 

[Webmonkey]

Don't feel bad about the scores,... I've been here for a few years now, and would consider my own work as "above average". And I barely ever break the 7 MARK, and tend to top out at about 7.3 . People judge harshly on that side of the site. And there are a few "snipers" out there that purposefully vote low on other people's projects,... not sure why. Try not to let the scores get to you. They are horribly arbitrary. Instead, drop by the WIP section and start a thread,... Thats where all the help and knowledge is.

 

[KruleBear]

Good advice from Maxxx and Webmonkey. I think your Feora and the Vassal are better than the Warjacks. I personnaly find painting the machines hard to do in a quick, yet satisfying way. I would rank the two figures in the 6-7 point range, but as Webmonkey mentioned, don't sweat the scores.

in general your paint selection and placement are decent and you appear to be trying to highlight more. In general your global shadows and highlights need further development and the blends smoother (one of my current challenges as well).

There is no doubt you are good enough for this site. Welcome, amd I suggest you start a wip in the wip section where you will get better and more specific feedback. You are already off to a good start!

-Mike

 

[Webmonkey]

Also,.... smoother blends, and same advice I give all newbies,.. black-lining,.. learn black-lining. Eventually, you'll likely move beyond it. But in the beginning it's a good way to train your eyes for color separation and placement.

 

[Zab]

Turn the scores off. They won't help you improve. Just paint and ask for feedback, start a wip thread here. Paint everything and anything of any scale. Remember to vary your style and subject matter to expand your skills and most importantly remember to have fun by doing the odd simple easy or quick project or challenge. Never forget about the fun part or you will stress out and not improve because you will not paint because it's not fun anymore

 

[Dragonsreach]

There are several things I'd like to suggest to you, firstly think about balancing primer to end colour, for example the Menoth might benefit from a white primer giving a brighter basepoint.
Next think about brush size for purpose, bulk colouring of large areas might be better off with a larger brush (say size 3) allowing for smoother passes.
You talk about using washes like GW's Nuln Oil and I suspect you may have been shown that as the only type of wash, however there are so many ways to wash or tone the underlying colour with greater subtlety, for example the Menoth White you could use a slightly darker colour (Vallejo Iraqi Sand) thinned down to gradually tone the lower areas adding a darker tone slowly to build up the depth.

Having just come back from Euro-Militaire and been listening to a critique given very gently to someone, consider this; we look at a person and we see light hitting the shoulders and upper body, the midsection (in my case middle age spread) will be slightly lower in tone and the legs slightly lower in tone again. Consider applying this principle to a model and the lighting will form along that pattern.

Now some people with tell you about zenithal priming where the primer is in itself highlighted by a light coverage of white from above to give an indication of where highlights should be the brightest, this will help but it's a technique that requires thought about angles and lighting.

Lastly, "Black Lining" doesn't have to be black. It's a separation between two areas by a darker colour, so a leather pouch might be shown to best advantage by a darker brown rather than a Pure black.

 

[baudot]

And suddenly a burst of feedback! Thanks, Webmonkey; thanks KruleBear, thanks Zab, thanks DragonsReach.

A WIP thread: Got it. Starting one; it'll be my next stop after this response.

As for the ratings, they don't actually get me down. I actually quite appreciate them. I realize I'm being judged on a complete scale, with 10 being set aside for the best people in the world for the best works of their lives, with all their tools built up after years of practice. When 10 is set aside for someone who's the Shakespeare of mini painting for a masterwork they labored over for weeks, and 7 is as good as a Golden Demon Winner gets on a run-of-the-mill mini on a ho-hum day, it doesn't discourage me to get a 4.7 on my entry level work. It gives me something to strive for. And even if I'm never striving for a 10, because I am a player first and a painter as a bonus, I'd love to get to the point where my average fig is a strong 7 on this scale. Even as just-a-player, bringing well painted figs to the table always makes the game more fun, and usually starts a fun conversation with the other players.

I also appreciate the full-spectrum grading scale, with 10 set aside for Leonardo da Vinci of minis and 1 for Are-You-Trying-To-Hurt-Us?, because I harbor aspirations to make a minis game of my own some day. Grading scales like this tend to be some of the most accurate, overall, once you have enough votes. And if I want to make a minis game, then I need to strive for excellence with the minis and hobby side of the game, too! They ought to be minis that can be painted to a high standard. So getting a real honest glimpse at what the Internet Hive Mind thinks makes a finished, painted mini excellent is an important lesson for any future minis game I might attempt. And painting and subjecting my own work to that same grading makes me really invest in it, and study it, and try and tease out what makes one mini more awesome than the next. So again, I don't have to be aiming to have that 9.8 mini on the top of the site. But I do need to appreciate what about it makes it get that 9.8, including the underlying sculpt that I might one day be commissioning for my own game.

Finally, I appreciate the ratings, however "harsh" they might seem at first impression, because they give me a reality check on the positive side as well as the negative side. When I finished and sealed my last fig, the Vassal of Menoth, I was was convinced it was my worst work yet. And yet it stands out head and shoulders above the three figs I posted before it on this site. I don't know what it is about this fig; Was part of it the more dynamic, brighter pallet? The detail that shows in his hair? The lucky texture that the quick-and-dirty wash gave his mask? The accent of the autumn flocking on the base setting off his flame-colors? I don't have enough data points to know what about this fig put it in a different league than the ones that came before, but it's useful to get a strong signal that there's something about this fig I should be paying attention to, and doing more of, to advance.

Anyway, after that long bit about how I really do appreciate the ratings, let me stop adding to this wall of text and say: Better color blending: Got it; will practice. More delicate wash technique: Got it; will practice. More conscious choice of brush sizes: Got it; will practice. Blacklining, even when it's not literal black: Got it; will practice.

Again, thank you all for your time and advice.

 

[Webmonkey]

I posted this same comment on your revenger pic when I voted,.. but black-lining is going to help you out a lot. Take the revenger picture, and really look at the top plate just above the models head. See how your red/purple color bleeds over onto the white of the surrounding trim?? Learning to put a black line in the edge/crevasse between will help guide you. Use the line as a buffer between the colors. On one side of the line, everything should be red/purple, and on the other side of the line everything should be white. Or just off to the right on the shoulder, where the red/purple meets the white,.. a black line will help separate the colors, and clean up the line. "Clean paint" is the base foundation of a good paintjob. From there, I'd go on to blackline the entire model,.. the base of the spikes on the shoulder,.. the spaces between the fingers,.. and/or any place where one color meets another. Blackline the entire model,.. then post a new picture on your wip of the current paint, and a new pic of the blacklined model,.. then we can compare the two and take you on to the next step.

 

[baudot]

I posted this same comment on your revenger pic when I voted,.. but black-lining is going to help you out a lot.

I can't see this comment?!

From my POV, none of my pics have any comments on them. (Except the one I posted myself on Feora.)

?!

 

[Webmonkey]

if you click the link you left in the very first post, and just scroll down the page, it should be there. also check and make sure you're signed in.

 

[baudot]

if you click the link you left in the very first post, and just scroll down the page, it should be there. also check and make sure you're signed in.

Nope, definitely not seeing any comments except my own. ?
View attachment 52349

However: WIP thread started.

Edited to add: And yup, I've been logged in the whole time:
View attachment 52350

 

[Webmonkey]

From that top picture,.. click the individual third image

 

[baudot]

From that top picture,.. click the individual third image

Done. Not seeing any comments there.
View attachment 52351

 

[Webmonkey]

It should be there. Maybe, because your account is new, it hasn't populated to you yet. Check again tomorrow. Being that you are in Oakland, I live pretty close in Fairfield. We might be able to meet up a some point and I can show you some basics. Some things you can try to explain on paper,. but you'll never truly understand unless/until you see it in person and/or do it yourself.

 

[MAXXxxx]

looks like it got lost in the warp. I can't see it either WM.

 

[Dragonsreach]

RE:- Webmonkey's comment...until this morning I hadn't approved it, which is why it wasn't showing.
(Sorry guys but this old git does need to sleep occasionally and not just an afternoon nap.)

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

Fundamentals. It almost always comes down to fundamentals. I have recently undergone some struggles with my painting, and I think that the fundamentals almost always had something to do with less than perfect painting. What are these fundamentals?

-Keep paint thin. Basecoats and highlights don't often have to be that diluted, often a 1:1 or even less is sufficient dilution. Glazes and shadows can be even more diluted.

-ALWAYS let the paint dry between layers. This is more often than not the culprit for rough painting surface, and your own gallery seems to suffer from some rough (un smooth) paint surfaces. If you are all over the palace when you paint, it can be easy to forget where the paint is most dry. So instead of painting a whole arm at once, paint the hand and the shoulder, letting each section dry before adding a layer, bouncing back and forth. This is one strategy, but the point is that in most cases you will be ready to add another diluted layer before the previous one has sufficiently dried.

-Keep a clean brush, free of dried paint specks. This is the second culprit of rough surfaces.

-Always make sure you wipe brush on a paper towel until it is no longer runny. Then test the consistency by brushing it on your hand/fingernail. This will tell you if the paint is going to cooperate with you. Only experience will tell you if your test brush onto your skin is showing favorable behavior from the paint or not.

-Brush control. To achieve a smooth finish, make sure that you brush the paint in a direction that you want the paint to be most opaque. So AWAY from the transition area of a blend. Painting smoothly is really about pushing the paint around in a manner that will avoid pooling and places the paint across the surface in equal quantities in all directions (for basecoat). If you took a microscope to the surface of the mini, would you see sections of thick paint in spots and super thin layers in others? If so, this would leave a mottled and rough appearance. Push the paint around evenly. (Of course, sometimes you will intentionally control the paint to be thin in spots and thick in others. Blending two colors together for a gradient required this. But controlling where the paint is thinnest and thickest is a part of smooth painting. Basecoats require even coats all around. For highlighting and shading, paint should be thickest towards the lightest and darkest areas, respectively, because this is where the brush strokes will be directed). When I say thick and thin I am speaking on a nearly microscopic level.

I I think that, when beginning, painting super thin is helpful. It will take longer, but brush control and other learned skills are less needed. As you gain in experience and learn how to handle paints in different consistencies, you can learn to paint less diluted-thus saving time. But starting out? Paint with colored water and realize that things will be slow slow slow.

 

[JohnLobster]

Really good (and brave) to ask for critique. It seems many people have too big an ego to listen but clearly you are listening and thinking. I would love to hear back in 6 months how you have progressed and which tips were most useful.

All the tips are good. I had two immediate thoughts

Blending. I think improving your blending skills will encourage you to create more contrast and make the mini more dramatic. I thought the cloaks were good.

Colour scheme. This is a massive topic and I am only just discovering how complex it can be. However basic advice would be to pick colours to improve the contrast. I think your Menoth stands out more because of the steel colour.

If you have a dusty room keep all minis in a sealed box. Absolutely put all your minis away somewhere else when woodworking

The last thing. Put a mini aside, work on something else, then come back to it with fresh ideas

Good luck

John