Completely New To Painting. Any Help Is Appreciated. First Submission

Dragonsreach

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
I'm wondering if you might be happier with the results if you started with the midtone colour and worked down into the shadows and up to the highlights.
That way you can learn pretty quickly about paint dilution control as you build up shadow density.
 
Bailey03

Bailey03

New member
Looking good. I can definitely see an improvement over the last one. Next time try to take your shadows a little darker and make your highlights a little lighter (add another layer or two for each). I think you'll be even happier with the results.
 
Flow

Flow

New member
Bailey03 said:
Looking good. I can definitely see an improvement over the last one. Next time try to take your shadows a little darker and make your highlights a little lighter (add another layer or two for each). I think you'll be even happier with the results.
Click to expand...

Second this - it's something I'm struggling with. Photographs seem to slightly subdue the contrast of shades and highlights, as well - don't be afraid of exaggerating the highlight/shade just a little. I've usually been too subtle so far with shades and highlights and then its hard to really even see them in a picture. :p
 
Bailey03

Bailey03

New member
Ha, I like the chilly orc. Reminds me of those old school video games where they just used the same bad guys but with different colors.

The contrast on the clothing is looking good, but I think you could still go further with the skin. The dark around the back of the neck looks nice. Next time try adding a few brighter highlights to select regions. The face is always a focal point, so people like to make it a little brighter. Try adding a little brighter shade to the top of the nose, the top of the checks (just below the eyes), very top of the head, and along the top of the protruding lower lip. I should say I like a higher contrast style and that's not the only approach, so while I'm offering advice it doesn't mean what I'm saying is right for you. Just wanted you to keep that in mind.

I agree, the most recent Firmir was better than the last. At this point don't put too much on the numerical rating you get from the gallery. It's a ballpark idea... but a lot depends on who happens to vote on yours, what mood their in, and who knows what else. We've all had times where we post what we're convinced is our best work and then the gallery doesn't agree. Trust yourself, if you know it's better don't let the rating bug you.
 
Y

Yuggoth

New member
You are doing great! Don`t be too harsh on yourself, you have allready surpassed a good 70% of the gamers I know in terms of quality. I think pushing the highlights a bit really did improve the little ork.

If you feel like it, you could add even more contrast by carefully blacklining the small details like teeth and eyes. Eyes without a dark eysocket tend to look a tad too cartoony for my liking. But be warned, doning this now could possibly mess up the whole face. Its easyer to do in earlier stages of painting.
Here is a really advanced guide to painting eyes: http://www.destroyerminis.com/paintingeyes/
I am not able to get results that good, but it helped me none the less.

Something else I noticed is that he could need some more contrast on his shoes. Those look a bit unfinished. Maybe add some darker wash in the ridges?

As a general advice: Build yourself a wet palette. For a long time I thought that this is only something Pros need. Well, I was wrong ;-)
It gives you more time to mix, blend and consider your mini.
 
Bailey03

Bailey03

New member
You're getting there. I like the light to dark range on the skin. I think it's closer to the light to dark range on the clothing now. For the highlights on the arms and legs I might add 1 or 2 intermediate tones to smooth them out. The transition to the highlight is a little extreme. What the highlights on the left arm. It's angled downwards. The highlights near the elbow are fine, but then get darker as you move towards the hand.

Yuggoth's advice is good as well. A little outlining around the eyes and teeth can be nice can be nice.

The most important thing is to have fun. It's worth trying out new things but if you don't like how the extra highlights look you don't need to do them for my sake. It's much more important that you are happy with the mini.
 
Banemorth

Banemorth

New member
Thanks Yuggoth! I tried outlining my one orc but I don't think I had a steady enough hand at the time and it looked incredibly sloppy. I'm going to try again on the next one as I've improved in that area.

Bailey I want all the suggestions and criticism that you're willing to offer. I want to be happy with my minis and part of what makes me happy is others enjoying them too. Nobody has every achieved anything by not pushing themselves. I'm going to go over this guy again and try to outline some features and add some more highlights. My Hot Lead DVD should arrive tomorrow too so I'll be stopping my painting until I finish watching it. Hopefully I'll learn something :D

I struggled with the highlight transition because I thought anything that was on "top" would have the brightest highlights. Even though the arm is sloping down the top of the arm is still totally exposed to the single light source which I've been trying to use. Because of the slope, however, you're saying I should taper the shade down as we proceed down the slope? I will absolutely try that!

A personal aside - I will complain, get frustrated, and down on myself. That's just the way I am. I want everything to be "perfect" and until it is I'm not happy. I want all the criticism that I can get, harsh or otherwise. It's the only way to get better.
 
Bailey03

Bailey03

New member
Banemorth said:
I struggled with the highlight transition because I thought anything that was on "top" would have the brightest highlights. Even though the arm is sloping down the top of the arm is still totally exposed to the single light source which I've been trying to use. Because of the slope, however, you're saying I should taper the shade down as we proceed down the slope? I will absolutely try that!
Click to expand...

Yeah, technically it should be more or less the same shade as it's all at the same angle. But, visually, it's a more interesting if you do a slight gradient going down the slope. You don't want an extreme light to dark transition... but a couple shades of variation can look nicer. In fact, if you want to add a little extra touch, you can start again with a lighter shade at wrist/top of the hand and then transition down again as you go towards the knuckles. Again, your goal here is subtle transitions, no need to get too extreme with the light/dark variations.

There can be a fine line between offering helpful advice and totally overwhelming someone new to mini painting. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't crossed it! ;)

Enjoy the Hot Lead DVD
 
Banemorth

Banemorth

New member
Started watching the DVD today. This guy loves dry brushing, which I've never tried.

I'm about to spend $250 at thewarstore. Any suggestions on what to buy? I'm getting some VMC Paints but the selection overwhelms me. No idea which ones to get.
 
F

Flagg

New member
$250 is a decent budget to start off with I think. But, I wouldn't blow it all on the paints... :)

I'm sure you'll get get several recommendations, but I'd suggest something like this, roughly in order of importance.

1. Start with your primaries... Red, blue, yellow... + basic brown, black, & white.
2. Then secondaries (violet, orange, green) + (flesh tones & a few brown tones)*
3. Some gray tones (these are easy to mix, but get used often)
4. several metallics hues... these I would suggest "triad" style hues... get a dark, midtone, highlight in the same hue
5. Washes - sepia, umber, black (or make your own)
6. some flavor of "Matte medium," "flow aid", primer, sealer (actually, primer should be up at #1 lol)
7. then start picking and choosing intermediate colors you think you might use more often (maybe watch some tutorials and pick some colors based on what is used in them. Oh, which reminds me, you might find this GW color conversion chart helpful)

* For me, I find fleshes/browns more difficult to mix accurately and I use them more often, so if I had to choose, I'd rather spend $ on those than say "turquoise" or whatever.... YMMV


Then, be sure to save some $ for
  • basing materials (base blanks, flock, static grass clumps, cork, ballast, sand, etc),
  • Green Stuff and/or Milliput
  • maybe some sculpting tools,
  • CA glue + debonder
  • A decent set of brushes (W&N series 7 sizes 000,00,1 would cost you around $35 I believe, but there are other options too, raphael I've been hearing good things about, but sorry haven't done much research on this.)
  • "The Master's Brush cleaner"

Some of the more fine art stuff the warstore won't carry, but you can try dickblick.com or cheapjoes.com

I've probably forgotten a ton of stuff, but hope this helps! I recently went through the same thing, so my shopping list is pretty fresh in my mind. :)

Best of luck!
 
Banemorth

Banemorth

New member
I suppose it would help to mention what I already have haha!

Here's what I've purchased for this so far:

A drafting table with an attached light
Flexible magnifying glass with LED Light
About 50 different P3 Paint Pots and 10 GW Washes
A really nice Exacto Knife set
Green Stuff
PVC Glue
Plastic Glue
Super Glue
P3 Black Primer
No-Spill Paint Cups for water
Plastic Pallet
Flock (Pebbles, Ash, Grass.)
Hobby Drill with bits
Hobby Clippers
Cutting mat
Sable Brushes (These specifically. The tip doesn't hold a point well though. http://www.amazon.com/Vinci-5359-Ko...=1360767823&sr=8-1&keywords=Red+Sable+Brushes
Master Brush Cleaner

I'm definitely going to get sculpting tools and more basing materials. I've also thought about buying the Liquitex Matte Medium, Flow Aide, and Inks to make my own washes. I've already ordered 100 Dropper Bottles for when I pull the trigger on THAT project :)
 
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F

Flagg

New member
Sounds like you're off to the races! :)

50 P3 paints already? Where do you think you are lacking in the paint area?

I haven't used enough different kinds of brushes to comment on the ones you got, but I seem to recall hearing somewhere good things about davinci. But some manufacturers have different lines of brushes. For example W&N's premier line is the Series 7. Not sure about the davincis. A high quality brush should be holding its point though, especially if its rather new, which I'm assuming yours are?


Oh, and a couple things that I forgot that will come in handy:
- A set of needle files for prepping your minis (flashing and mold lines etc)
- A jewelers saw and some extra replacement blades (helps getting rid of "broccoli" style bases if you want to remount on a scenic base, plus is generally useful for sawing small parts and whatnot)
 
Banemorth

Banemorth

New member
Yup I've got files too. Forgot to add that to the list! :p

I don't like the Paint Pots... I despise them in fact. I want to move to VMC. I am also not thrilled with the range of paints that I have. I bought a few of the six pot box sets and got a TON of duplicates.
 
Flow

Flow

New member
Banemorth said:
Yup I've got files too. Forgot to add that to the list! :p

I don't like the Paint Pots... I despise them in fact. I want to move to VMC.
Click to expand...

They take a little to get used to; I bought the full P3 set back around Christmas. I've become very happy with them, actually. I have a dedicated brush that I used exclusively to get paint out of the pots. By always using the same brush, I've gotten pretty good at getting a consistent amount out every time. After doing this awhile, it really doesn't bother me at all anymore.

The fact you got so many duplicates is painful though; hopefully they were useful duplicates that can eventually see some use!
 
F

Flagg

New member
Also, you *could* transplant them into the dropper bottles you mentioned you have on order.

Dupes, maybe ebay them?
 
Banemorth

Banemorth

New member
Flagg said:
Also, you *could* transplant them into the dropper bottles you mentioned you have on order.

Dupes, maybe ebay them?
Click to expand...

I fully intend to move them out of the pots. That's why I bought so many bottles. The rest are for custom washes!
 
T

Trevor

Brushlicker and Freak!
Once you find a black and a white you like, get a couple of bottles of these, they tend to get used up quicker than the other colours.
Get some better brushes, the best thing to do if you can is go to an art shop and look at their sable brushes*, then you can pick one with a decent point. Ask them for some water and test the point, or take a dropper bottle of water with you. 'Paint' the water onto your hand to test the point.
If you transfer your paints to dropper bottles, add some glass beads as agitators. You can get these from craft stores, just make sure they are small enough to fit into your bottles.

*there are a variety of makes, more expensive does not always mean better, I've used Francheville, Neef, W&N series 7.
 
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