Colors and history
- Thread starter jsteel
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me_in_japan
New member
Ha! Good question, mate 
To be absolutely honest, I think it's just that some designer at GW HQ thought it would look good. From a fluff perspective, space marines are life-long soldiers. Yes, their equipment is very high tech and all, but their real strength lies in the fact that they all train every day for decades, both physically and mentally, and soon become absolutely indoctrinated to the Imperial Creed. An oft quoted phrase relating to space marines is "And They Shall Know No Fear." They don't think like normal people, and would, frankly, be a bloody liability if there wasn't a permanent state of war across the galaxy. Even out of armour a space marine is a killing machine. There are books out there that detail the process of becoming a Marine, but basically it starts by taking a young lad (about 13-14ish) and training and training and training him. Then it's organ implants, more training, tests and so on. Most of em die. The whole process is backed up by spiritual indoctrination. By the end of the process all marines are about 8 feet high, which I suppose is one reason for the training - if they were too short they wouldn't fit in the armour
I suppose as well, it's not just that they're strong - they get the muscles from the years of hardcore military training (weapon skills, tactical exercises, etc) They need these combat skills, and the muscles are just kinda a side-effect.
Incidentally, space marines are not the only people to wear power armour. There's a faction called the Sisters of Battle who are a group of warrior nuns. They don't have any of the physical enhancements marines do (although they are even more fanatical) but they do wear power armor. Likewise some inquisitors (high ranking anti-witch/daemon investigators) also wear power armour, but this is more because inquisitors can pretty much requisition anything they want, up to and including a system wide battle fleet The SoBs and Inq's power armour looks similar (kinda) to the marines', but is much smaller so as to fit the mere mortals wearing it.
To be absolutely honest, I think it's just that some designer at GW HQ thought it would look good. From a fluff perspective, space marines are life-long soldiers. Yes, their equipment is very high tech and all, but their real strength lies in the fact that they all train every day for decades, both physically and mentally, and soon become absolutely indoctrinated to the Imperial Creed. An oft quoted phrase relating to space marines is "And They Shall Know No Fear." They don't think like normal people, and would, frankly, be a bloody liability if there wasn't a permanent state of war across the galaxy. Even out of armour a space marine is a killing machine. There are books out there that detail the process of becoming a Marine, but basically it starts by taking a young lad (about 13-14ish) and training and training and training him. Then it's organ implants, more training, tests and so on. Most of em die. The whole process is backed up by spiritual indoctrination. By the end of the process all marines are about 8 feet high, which I suppose is one reason for the training - if they were too short they wouldn't fit in the armour
I suppose as well, it's not just that they're strong - they get the muscles from the years of hardcore military training (weapon skills, tactical exercises, etc) They need these combat skills, and the muscles are just kinda a side-effect.
Incidentally, space marines are not the only people to wear power armour. There's a faction called the Sisters of Battle who are a group of warrior nuns. They don't have any of the physical enhancements marines do (although they are even more fanatical) but they do wear power armor. Likewise some inquisitors (high ranking anti-witch/daemon investigators) also wear power armour, but this is more because inquisitors can pretty much requisition anything they want, up to and including a system wide battle fleet
The SoBs and Inq's power armour looks similar (kinda) to the marines', but is much smaller so as to fit the mere mortals wearing it.
RuneBrush
New member
MiJ has pretty much summed it all up. There are many variations of power armour. Space Marine power armour is unique in that it neurally interfaces with the person inside and makes a "post-human" even stronger.
According to the fluff, the original power armour was developed for the Thunder Warriors who were in essence the pre-cursor to the Adeptus Astartes. It was to make marines even more lethal for the purpose of the Great Crusade. Power armour for humans were created at some point after this and as MiJ says, is smaller, lighter and although it increases the wearers strength, that increase is relative to the wearer.
I do think that one of the biggest problems when trying to visualise is that miniatures no longer represent marines in proportion to humans correctly. A marine stands around 7ft tall without armour which will add another 6" on. Theoretically they should be a whole head taller than a human
yeah they do seem out of proportion. I have some space marine devastators. I have been trying to think of a color to paint but the pix I find are all over the place. They came with one shoulder pad on each one the plastic was already shiny silvery chrome. Not sure if that was an add on from the person on ebay. they tried to cover it up and painted it the same as the grey plastic. The shoulder pads have skulls on them so probably more on the dark side. What do you thing? for some reason im leaning tword yellow but im still not sure if that is right.
what are the books that talk about how to become a marine it sounds fascinating.
js
what are the books that talk about how to become a marine it sounds fascinating.
js
lol look what i found I didn't know they could spit venom.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#.Uh_Uy2TXgec
It takes a considerable deal of time to transform a normal human into a Space Marine. They receive implants known asgene-seed which transform their bodies and give them superhuman abilities - making them capable of spitting acidic venom, absorbing the memories of the dead by eating their flesh, darkening their skin to protect it from radiation, and operating for long periods without sleep by switching off parts of their brains at a time
they should have another group of people that bought gene seed in the black market and it doesn't do it right so they get like one huge arm or leg to fight with haha. you know this stuff would hit the black market but in a less potent form. so rejects from the marines would seek them out but it makes them crazy or something. Oh that may be a good idea for sculpts like gene seen gone bad.
man with all the implants there has to be some messed up people out there that lived but with some messed up side effect. The ideas from that are limitless on the grotesque people that would be made. say they only did phase 1 to 7 then stopped because something screwed up.
Man these implants are messed up. Who thought of this stuff. I wouldn't think you need this info to play the game. How long did yall say this game has been around? I am surprised at the huge amount of info on the net about every little detail.
Im surprised there are not any movies about this stuff. It would make a great movie.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#.Uh_Uy2TXgec
It takes a considerable deal of time to transform a normal human into a Space Marine. They receive implants known asgene-seed which transform their bodies and give them superhuman abilities - making them capable of spitting acidic venom, absorbing the memories of the dead by eating their flesh, darkening their skin to protect it from radiation, and operating for long periods without sleep by switching off parts of their brains at a time
they should have another group of people that bought gene seed in the black market and it doesn't do it right so they get like one huge arm or leg to fight with haha. you know this stuff would hit the black market but in a less potent form. so rejects from the marines would seek them out but it makes them crazy or something. Oh that may be a good idea for sculpts like gene seen gone bad.
man with all the implants there has to be some messed up people out there that lived but with some messed up side effect. The ideas from that are limitless on the grotesque people that would be made. say they only did phase 1 to 7 then stopped because something screwed up.
Man these implants are messed up. Who thought of this stuff. I wouldn't think you need this info to play the game. How long did yall say this game has been around? I am surprised at the huge amount of info on the net about every little detail.
Im surprised there are not any movies about this stuff. It would make a great movie.
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sorry this is a post from danka
Well, heres how I see it. Mutations are becoming more rampant, and the Inquisition is getting less tolerant. Gene-seed is starting to become more corrupted, and it seems that even some the oldest chapters are suffering from some bad mutations.
where do they get this stuff? How would he know about this? This world is so cool.
js
Well, heres how I see it. Mutations are becoming more rampant, and the Inquisition is getting less tolerant. Gene-seed is starting to become more corrupted, and it seems that even some the oldest chapters are suffering from some bad mutations.
where do they get this stuff? How would he know about this? This world is so cool.
js
Zab
Almost Perftec! Aw, crap.
No. not officially, but there are other mini manufacturers out there that have mins of the primarchs and emperor type characters. Kabuki for one. hitech and scibor are others, This system has been around for 25 years+. I got into it in the rouge trader days. I love the HH because they are slowly answering all the questions I've have about the 30k history of 40k. Maybe too slowly...hmmm another ploy to separate me from my money...Touche GW, touche.:disapointed:
me_in_japan
New member
40k 1st edition (Rogue Trader) was originally envisioned as a role-playing game as much as a tabletop one. That's one of the reasons there's so much background material. Being 25 years old helps, too. That's a long time for an (increasingly large) group of creative minds to be adding to a story. One of the reasons for the background is that it makes the sculpts more believable/interesting if there's a rational reason for all the decorations/details on a model. A good example of this is the Eldar. In the original 40k book there was a couple of pages about them. They were basically pirate elves in space. Their appearance was similar to a fantasy elf wearing a slightly lumpy looking bio-ish armour. Some time later one of GWs sculptors was asked to develop the range a bit and make some more eldar models. Now, fortunately for us Eldar players, that designer was Jes Goodwin, a man with an obsessive eye for functional detail. Rather than pick up his sculpting tools and get to work, he sat down and thought long and hard about what kind of people he wanted eldar to be. He made up a whole culture for the species (this is all in a book called the Warhammer 40k Compilation, which is long out of print. You can google Jes Goodwin Eldar concept sketch for some nice pics, though). The point is, once he was done thinking out the culture and lifestyle of the eldar, the design part was easy. Why do their soldiers all wear completely different types of armour? Well, that's cos they have to compartmentalise their thought processes or they go bonkers. What's that gem on ther chests that they all have? Ah well, that's the stone for ther souls. Etc, etc. A well thought-out backstory gives life to a design.
incodentally, the posts from dakka about broken gene-seed marines miss a fundamental point. If gene seed doesn't take properly, the subject dies. Painfully. The implantation of all the organs takes years and years, and is accompanied by very hardcore training and pain-management. It also requires a highly skilled surgeon and high tech facilities. Space marines are made from the genes of the Primarchs. The Primarchs are made from the genes of the Emperor (probably). To interfere with the gene-seed in any way would be a terrible heresy, and would probably result in the perpetrator's planet being virus-bombed from orbit if ye imperium ever found out. One the the imperium is not is Tolerant. Of anything. At all. It is not a nice place.The very slightly aberrant gene-seed found in chapters such as the Blood Angels (slight tendency to fangs, a bit blood-obsessed. Somewhat insane) and Space Wolves (hairy, fangs, occasionally turn into werewolves) is only tolerated because a) the chapters involved keep it very hush-hush, and b) it's quite handy to have an insane vampire/werewolf on your side in a fight.
That said, the chaos marines can and do attempt to steal gene-seed from loyalist chapters. I guess in the eye of terror (the nasty daemon-infested section of the galaxy where the CSM live) they don't have much in the way of resources. There's a rather good series of stories about both chaos marines and ultra marines by Graeme McNeill which has a lot of stuff about this kind of thing. Some of it is from the POV of the CSM, some (most) from the POV of the ultramarines. I forget the names of the books right now, but I'll check when I get home. Maaaaybe it's Storm of Iron, then the Ultramarines Omnibus (book 1). Incodentally, the Eisenhorn series by Dan Abnett is a great read and focuses much more on daily life in the cities of the imperium.
incodentally, the posts from dakka about broken gene-seed marines miss a fundamental point. If gene seed doesn't take properly, the subject dies. Painfully. The implantation of all the organs takes years and years, and is accompanied by very hardcore training and pain-management. It also requires a highly skilled surgeon and high tech facilities. Space marines are made from the genes of the Primarchs. The Primarchs are made from the genes of the Emperor (probably). To interfere with the gene-seed in any way would be a terrible heresy, and would probably result in the perpetrator's planet being virus-bombed from orbit if ye imperium ever found out. One the the imperium is not is Tolerant. Of anything. At all. It is not a nice place.The very slightly aberrant gene-seed found in chapters such as the Blood Angels (slight tendency to fangs, a bit blood-obsessed. Somewhat insane) and Space Wolves (hairy, fangs, occasionally turn into werewolves) is only tolerated because a) the chapters involved keep it very hush-hush, and b) it's quite handy to have an insane vampire/werewolf on your side in a fight.
That said, the chaos marines can and do attempt to steal gene-seed from loyalist chapters. I guess in the eye of terror (the nasty daemon-infested section of the galaxy where the CSM live) they don't have much in the way of resources. There's a rather good series of stories about both chaos marines and ultra marines by Graeme McNeill which has a lot of stuff about this kind of thing. Some of it is from the POV of the CSM, some (most) from the POV of the ultramarines. I forget the names of the books right now, but I'll check when I get home. Maaaaybe it's Storm of Iron, then the Ultramarines Omnibus (book 1). Incodentally, the Eisenhorn series by Dan Abnett is a great read and focuses much more on daily life in the cities of the imperium.
Thank you again for such an awesome post me_in_japan. great stuff.
Check this out: http://convertorum.blogspot.com/p/jes-goodwin-art.html
I just got through the point where Horus falls and they take him to the sorcerer. Wow book two is very exciting. One thing; Why do they keep saying "Throne"? Im not sure what they mean by that.
Check this out: http://convertorum.blogspot.com/p/jes-goodwin-art.html
I just got through the point where Horus falls and they take him to the sorcerer. Wow book two is very exciting. One thing; Why do they keep saying "Throne"? Im not sure what they mean by that.
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me_in_japan
New member
Actually, that's a good question. They shouldn't be saying "throne" at all. It's a common oath in warhammer 40k, because at that point in time the emperor (now treated as a god in all respects) is interred upon a large life-support system known as the golden throne of terra. So, in 40k it's perfectly understandable to say "Holy Throne!" or "By the Emperor's holy nads! That was close!" It's the equivalent of the modern "holy crap!" or other less socially acceptable exclamations
However, 30k being 10,000years earlier, the emp is still in fine fiesty fettle, and not enthroned at all. Even if he was, he's made it very clear that he will not tolerate any religion, especially his own worship. (There's a very good short story on this theme later in the Horus Heresy books, btw). So, as I understand it, the use of "throne" as an exclamation is a nasty little continuity error. Shame on you, GW!
*edit* nice link, chief - there are pics in there that I had never seen before. I hadn't realised Jes did the revenant Titan, although in retrospect it has the mark of the Goodwin all over it. Many thanks for posting it
However, 30k being 10,000years earlier, the emp is still in fine fiesty fettle, and not enthroned at all. Even if he was, he's made it very clear that he will not tolerate any religion, especially his own worship. (There's a very good short story on this theme later in the Horus Heresy books, btw). So, as I understand it, the use of "throne" as an exclamation is a nasty little continuity error. Shame on you, GW!
*edit* nice link, chief - there are pics in there that I had never seen before. I hadn't realised Jes did the revenant Titan, although in retrospect it has the mark of the Goodwin all over it. Many thanks for posting it
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Actually there is one that was produced 2 years ago - or so - It was called 'Ultramarines' and featured some high profile actors supplying the voices - it was CGI film. You used to be able to watch it on You Tube but it might well have been pulled. To be honest it wasn't that good a film, its a 90min film that would have been better as a 45 min short film. An alternative is a fan made film that is due out soon - search for the Lord Inquisitor on google. The detailing looks fantastic and although it's not mainly about space marines (mostly the Inquisition and chaos) it is a great source of imagery of the current 40k universe.
Bailey03
New member
Wow, great thread for a short history of 40K. Hard to add much to what me_in_japan and others have already said.
Another good resource I like better than the lexicanum is:
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_Wiki
Similiar information but I feel like it gives more details and plenty of pictures.
Returning to the original question of colors... if you're going the chaos route you can find a list on either the above link or lexicanum of the traitor legions. There are a limited number of traitor legions so you can look through them and pick what you like the best. For loyal space marines there are many many chapters in 40K (unlike 30K) so you can pick an existing one or make up your own (color scheme, background story, etc).
If you are doing chaos, from a painting standpoint I think the Red Corsairs are interesting. A large part of their legion is made up of renegade space marines... so you have all their previous legion colors with red X's painted over their imperial symbols.
I've been tempted to start working on a pre-heresy force. Forgeworld is expensive (even by GW standards) but you end up with something much more unique than all of the 40K armies out there (not that there's anything wrong with them). I've been looking through a lot of the background info trying to decide what I want to do. I'd like to do a Death Guard army, especially if Forgeworld comes out with a Mortarion figure. But the dirty white color scheme is going to be tough to do well. So now I'm leaning a bit towards the Sons of Horus. Lots of neat models but it's really all of the backstory info that keeps me interested in painting them.
Another good resource I like better than the lexicanum is:
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_Wiki
Similiar information but I feel like it gives more details and plenty of pictures.
Returning to the original question of colors... if you're going the chaos route you can find a list on either the above link or lexicanum of the traitor legions. There are a limited number of traitor legions so you can look through them and pick what you like the best. For loyal space marines there are many many chapters in 40K (unlike 30K) so you can pick an existing one or make up your own (color scheme, background story, etc).
If you are doing chaos, from a painting standpoint I think the Red Corsairs are interesting. A large part of their legion is made up of renegade space marines... so you have all their previous legion colors with red X's painted over their imperial symbols.
I've been tempted to start working on a pre-heresy force. Forgeworld is expensive (even by GW standards) but you end up with something much more unique than all of the 40K armies out there (not that there's anything wrong with them). I've been looking through a lot of the background info trying to decide what I want to do. I'd like to do a Death Guard army, especially if Forgeworld comes out with a Mortarion figure. But the dirty white color scheme is going to be tough to do well. So now I'm leaning a bit towards the Sons of Horus. Lots of neat models but it's really all of the backstory info that keeps me interested in painting them.
me_in_japan
New member
As I mentioned earlier, there is also a selection of really rather good video games set in the 40k universe. Dawn of War (and its many expansions) is a RTS game using almost all 40k factions. DoW2 is a more skirmish level game which includes the one faction not in DoW 1 - the tyranids. Incidentally, there are no tyranids, tau or necrons in warhammer 30k because either the imperium hasn't found the yet, or they hasn't yet arrived in our galaxy. Space Marine is a 3rd person shooter/combat/action game which really surprised me. It looked...unedifying, but when I actually played it I found myself really getting quite into the whole "raaaaaaar! Purge the xenos!" feel of it. There are some great bits where you're just expected to wade into a war between orks and CSM and just sort em all out by yourself. And you can It's dumb, but fun. If you're a gamer, they're all worth checking out. Personally, I'm of the opinion that all the creative minds are moving from movies to video games. When was the last time you saw a movie that you consider "original" or "unique"? How about video games? I'm always being surprised by the storytelling in games these days, but movies...well, I do enjoy em, but I haven't seem anything thought-provoking for years.
Sorry - am getting sidetracked here.
It's dumb, but fun. If you're a gamer, they're all worth checking out. Personally, I'm of the opinion that all the creative minds are moving from movies to video games. When was the last time you saw a movie that you consider "original" or "unique"? How about video games? I'm always being surprised by the storytelling in games these days, but movies...well, I do enjoy em, but I haven't seem anything thought-provoking for years. Sorry - am getting sidetracked here.
me_in_japan
New member
Re: colour schemes - in 40k you have infinite choice when it comes to both CSM and loyalist marines. Some of the CSM legions who went into the eye of terror fractured and split into lots of wee warbands. Some of them only follow one chaos god, others follow all the gods, some don't actually follow the gods at all, and just use chaos rituals for the power they get from it. These warbands can have any kind of colour scheme you like. There's lots of freedom. As for the loyalists, after the Heresy the huge legions were split into lots of smaller groups called chapters. Then later, new chapters were founded (eg the flesh tearers were founded from the blood angels' gene seed.). So, in 40k you are able to design your own color scheme as you see fit, and (if you're playing) use the rules for the army that best suits your self-created background. Some folks see this as the most rewarding part of the hobby, nd spend ages writing wee stories about their army's exploits and creating background and so on. For those who can't be arsed - there are loads of chapters/warbands detailed in the CSM / SM army books.
In 30k, you have only the 18 first founding legions. Dat's it. *shrug* some folks really dig the Heresy, though.
In 30k, you have only the 18 first founding legions. Dat's it. *shrug* some folks really dig the Heresy, though.
RuneBrush
New member
They are indeed doing Mortarion
The off-white colour is a bit of a sod to get right - especially as it's different in every bloody picture and photo! However it is possible to get something that looks nice using the new GW colours (rather than hijack this post, look at this pic on my blog - I've actually finished this unit but it gives you an idea of what I'm doing). I'm intending to use my 30k army as a 40k Chaos army as every unit apart from the Rapier can be recreated using the new Chaos SM codex.wow again good stuff. I finished the 2nd book last night and started the 3rd. I see now what Horus is up to. Surprised that he could fall for that but he wanted all the rewards anyway. Loving the books and I try highlighting all the parts where they talk about colors or suits of different patriarchs or groups. The sword that hurt Horus is that in the game? That type of sword. It would really come in hand during a battle.
I did watch the Ultramarines movie a couple days ago and agree that it was a bit bad. They could have done a better movie with all the stuff in the books. Like when Horus went to the moon and all the corpses came after them. That alone would make a great movie.
Thank you again. Reading the books make me want to look at the Orcs also. They speak of how they fight and seem very cool.
Years ago I played Warhammer and I quit because I didn't know the rules that well and the other players kept cheating making up stuff they said they could do. I may try 40k but as I have said I have been painting mini's on and off for 30 years. I am an old dude and would need to find older players. I would not like hanging with a bunch of kids all the time. haha
I have spent many hours reading the background stuff and thank you all for this wonderful thread.
js
I did watch the Ultramarines movie a couple days ago and agree that it was a bit bad. They could have done a better movie with all the stuff in the books. Like when Horus went to the moon and all the corpses came after them. That alone would make a great movie.
Thank you again. Reading the books make me want to look at the Orcs also. They speak of how they fight and seem very cool.
Years ago I played Warhammer and I quit because I didn't know the rules that well and the other players kept cheating making up stuff they said they could do. I may try 40k but as I have said I have been painting mini's on and off for 30 years. I am an old dude and would need to find older players. I would not like hanging with a bunch of kids all the time. haha
I have spent many hours reading the background stuff and thank you all for this wonderful thread.
js
