Colors and history

[jsteel]

I just started reading the first Horus book. I noticed that each group has its own color. I do not play any of the games 40k etc. I am just a model painter wanting to start painting some 40k minis. Is there a list of what color each group is throughout a historical context like before Horus, present, beginning of time etc.

i really do need a history lesson or to read some of the codex. I was just going to pick a color I liked but I would rather give them the justice they deserve. I bought a bunch of minis off eBay and am getting ready for next year where I would love to compete in some major painting competitions. I haven't painted in 8 or so years so all this seems so much fun.

thanks for any help you can give me

James

Most of what I purchased seems to be chaos space marines troops, cultists, champions captains and squad of space marine devistators.

 

[Zab]

I love the HH. What legion were you thinking of doing? A loyalist or one that turned? Or one that was a loyalist before turning? Man, there are so many options. It's why i have stayed away from doing HH minis. So much great background and you could do any legion a number of ways depending on when in their history you are depicting them. It would just be a slow spiral into insanity for me, but I'm happy to help push you down that hole :mad-tongue:

 

[me_in_japan]

It's a complicated question, because, as you say, the various legions have changed their colours at various times in their history. I'd recommend you search through some online resources (eg Lexicanum http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page#.UhgRv2Qayc0) or even take a look at the Black Library book about the Space Marines (http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/Insignium-Astartes-Print-On-Demand.html)

Basicall, though, before the Heresy there were 20 legions, each compose of huuuuuge numbers of space marines and attendant hangers-on. Each also had a Primarch. During the heresy about half the Primarchs (and therefore about half the legions) rebelled and, over time, turned to chaos. So, pre-heresy nobody had any chaotic iconography, colours or mutations. During the heresy the Legion colours didn't change, but chaotic influence would become gradually more apparent (defaced imperial eagles, spray painted chaos sigils, and eventually mutations.) Finally, after the Heresy the traitor legions ran off to the Eye of Terror, where a lot of them completely redesigned their armour colours, and replaced all imperial iconography with chaos stars, skulls, chaos sigils, skulls, spikey bits, and skulls. Mutations and similar gribbliness would be pretty rife by this point. Many of them also formed splinter groups, warbands, which either kept some of their original iconography/colors, or just made up something new.

The loyalist Legions were broken up into much smaller groups called Chapters after the heresy. Each chapter kept some/most of the parent Legion colour scheme, but altered slightly. Additionally, in the 10,000 years post-heresy, the imperium has created new chapters from the gene-seed of the first, loyal 10 or so. These chapters tend to have similar themes but can have wildly different colours to their parent chapter. For example, Crimson Fists (dark blue armor, red hand, clenched fist icon) are a successor chapter of the imperial fists (yellow armour, clenched fist icon.)

If I were you I would pick a chapter you like based on the background, then do a bit of digging for specific visual details. I'm happy to help, but I kinda need a guideline as to what chapter/legion you're interested in.

One thing worth mentioning is that all this fluff means that Pre and during the heresy, you only have 20 (well, 18, actually) legions/colour schemes to choose from. Moving into the post heresy period you have an infinite number of chapters/warbands to choose from, so it's perfectly ok to make up your own iconography/colours/background.

 

[jsteel]

wow you really know your stuff. As I said I have never played or even know what pre or post Heresy means. I suppose if I keep reading the books (just finished #1 tonight and started #2.) I will understand what that means. When people are playing 40k what timeline are they playing in at present or are there different time period games?

Thank you so much for the links I will look through and get a better Idea of what I would like to do. It's all so fascinating the history behind this game. I think it's so cool it almost make me want to play a little some day.

I only bought the mini's because I thought they looked cool. Very pretty sculpts. Great detail just wonderful.

I will keep reading and researching so I have a greater understanding of how it all comes together throughout history. I would like to get a space wolf because I love Loken's character. Very cool dude. By the way the books are awesome. I didn't think I would like them as much as I do. Heck there are like 30 or 40 of them.

 

[me_in_japan]

The majority of minis that GW sell are for warhammer 40k, which is set in the year 40,000-and-something. The Horus Heresy took place in the 30,000-and-something, so there's a significant time difference. Both settings are dark and gothic, but at least in 30k the imperium is kinda "outward-ho, lets being the light of hope to the darkness of space!" Whereas in 40k, it's all "gah! We're doomed! Work harder so's we doom more slowly..."

in terms of minis, the ones you have are almost certainly for warhammer 40k, and that means Chaos warbands. It would be very much worth your while to research the chaos legions and the powers of chaos (the 4 chaos gods) as these heavily influence the visual style. It's more complex, but basically amounts to:

Khorne: war god. Colours: red, brass, bone. Lots of berserker type minis.
Slaanesh: lust god. Colours: purple, pink, pastels, black. Lots of bondage straps and piercings.
Nurgle: Plague god. Colours: brown, green, rust. Lots of oozing wounds, rusty metal, sores, etc
Tzeentch: Magic god. Colours: Bright blues, greens, yellows. Lots of mutations, and the marines (the Thousand Sons Legion) are quite ancient Egypt-y looking.

If you're dead set on authentic 30k miniatures, a subsidiary of GW called Forge World have a game called Horus Heresy and are releasing a range of minis designed to fit in the 31st millennium.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy#&panel1-1

note: Loken is not a space wolf. He's a Luna Wolf. Without wishing to spoiler things, the Luna Wolves will soon change their name. Space Wolves are completely different. (You can read about em in one of the later books. It's either Prospero Burns or A Thousand Sons. I can't remember which. There are also lots of 40k books about the Space Wolves.)

ps: in case you're wondering how the heck I know all this crap, it comes from a) being into 40k since 1st edition, and b) having a large quantity of GW books, including all the Horus Heresy ones. Believe it or not, I'm actually not that into marines. I'm more of an eldar guy, meself

 

[Zab]

Believe it or not, I'm actually not that into marines. I'm more of an eldar guy, meself :smile:

It was the best part of Fulgrim's fall (when he meets with them and they see the sword and freak out) and the way they manipulated the Alpha Legion. Pointy eared devils :disapointed:

 

[jsteel]

Thank you again. I'll check out the forge world stuff. I'm not dead set on anything but maybe just understanding this stuff. It's very fascinating. One question or maybe two.

1. The bugs on murder are they also a group that can be played?
2. At the end of book one they met another more advanced human race. Are those a playable fraction?
3 I guess what I'm saying is are most of the aliens in the group playable in the game, like when his friend turned into a daemon and attacked his own men. Is that delt with in the game.
4. Where is the best place besides the books to study the history of the different groups. I know you put up the wiki pages which I have not looked at yet so that may be the answer.

than you again, I just love reading all the posts they are so informative. I didn't realize there was so much background to this game.

 

[me_in_japan]

Hmmm. In brief:
1) bugs on murder - no, not a playable faction. They are only mentioned in that book.
2) daemons - yes, absolutely a playable faction. Chaos is a major defining characteristic of the 40k (and 30k) universe.
3) more advanced humans - no, not playable. By the 41st millennium all humanity has either been subsumed into the Imperium of Man, or declared heretics and purged. The Imperium is extremely xenophobic and in many ways is actually far worse than the "bad guys" in 40k.

I think it's very interesting to see how a complete newcomer approaches this game. As I mentioned, I started playing during 1st edition warhammer 40k, which was about 20 years ago. (We're now on 6th ed.) Because of that I've been able to absorb the various histories and stories of the various factions somewhat organically. For a complete newcomer, I can only imagine that it must be quite overwhelming. To give a little context, the Horus Heresy is basically a spin off from 40k. It's been part of the fluff (=background material) for a long time, but it's only in recent years that its been properly fleshed out. Those 30books or so you mentioned are a small spin off of the 40k game.

Ill let you absorb that for a moment

Ok, now don't panic. You simply don't need to know the whole 20 years worth of history of 40k to start painting (or playing.) I think what you do need to do is spend a few days (weeks? Months? It's up to you) reading some or all of the following:

Free
1) Lexicanum online.
2) Games Workshop's home page (for a complete look at all the factions available)
3) errr. Legally questionable, but if you're familiar with torrents, a quick search for "Warhammer 40k Codex" will find you a very large amount of reading matter indeed.

Costs money (but worth it, imo)
1) The Warhammer 40k rulebook (this book is maybe 25% rules, 75% background and hobby stuff)
2) Forge World's Horus Heresy book. (I don't own this, but those who do all claim its worth the money. Still seems bloody expensive to me, but hey ho...)
3) The various 40k codexes. These are faction-specific rule books with roughly the same proportion of rules:background as the main 40k rulebook.

Finally, I feel morally obliged to point out that Games Workshop is geared entirely towards separating you from your money. Their stuff is gorram expensive. 40k is not the best ruleset out there, though it is the most popular. It does, however, have superb background. No other game universe comes close, in my opinion. It's basically too big to properly describe. If I had to pick one word, it'd be "infinite".
Aesthetically, GW minis have come on hugely on recent years. Their new plastics are superb. Their new finecast is...hmmm. I'll be polite and say "very bad" and leave it at that. Forge World, otoh, is extremely good across the board, and is also very expensive. There are other games made by other companies that have equally (some might say better) sculpted minis, but for me 40k (and by extension 30k) is unrivaled in terms of background and depth.

*edit* dear lor', talk about yer wall o text. Sorry. Got a bit carried away there...

 

[Zab]

If you do decide to go the Heresy route here is a fairly new forum that might help as it is geared specifically to the 30K side of things:
http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/

Your enthusiasm to the 40k universe is refreshing. Starting with the background is a really great way to get into the game and hobby. Like MIJ says, most developed fluff out there.

 

[3dken]

Here's another quick (pretty detailed) look at the space marine chapters with the names, colors, and markings. The third column shows the colors of the chapters. Have fun!
http://www.ironhands.com/chapters.htm

P.s. wait until you see what a dick Horus can be to his own legion!

 

[me_in_japan]

Let's keep this thread as spoiler free as possible, shall we? What we have here is the equivalent of someone watching Star Wars for the first time and saying "that poor skywalker lad. What a horrible man that darth vader must be to have killed his dad." Patience, precious, patience. Let the man find out on his own

 

[jsteel]

Lol I think reading all the wiki stuff is spoiler enough. Thank you to everyone who helped I think I have a few months of reading on each site. I'll probably read a few books first just because I don't want to much stuff spoiled. At least I am getting a wonderful lesson from all of you. Thank You

js

 

[jsteel]

Ok I have a question. The armor has many things attached. Cloak, oath papers but I have no clue what everything else is. I suppose if I'm going to paint these minis it would help to know what your painting. Jet pack guns swords etc...

js

 

[me_in_japan]

Ok, quick run down of Marine Bitz 101:

there are 7 distinct "marks" of marine power armor, however the ones you'll most likely see are mark 6 (kinda beaky helmet, no knee pads) and mark 7 (face grill, knee pads). Marks 3,4 and 5 are all Horus Heresy era. 6 and 7 are post-heresy. If you google "mark # power armour" you'll get plenty of pics. There was also a mark 8, but it was scrapped in favor of terminator armour. Not a lot of people know that Terminator Armor, btw, is like a space marine turned up to 11. Again, google is your friend (Horus heresy era termi armour is called cataphracti armour, btw)

All marks of power armour have a large backpack. This is the power unit. You can also get some minis (generally assault marines or raptors) with jump packs. These are much larger - generally their exhaust ports are so big they go from shoulder to ass on the marines. If you google "assault marine jump pack" or "chaos marine raptor" you'll get plenty of pics.

All marines cover themselves in iconography. During the Horus heresy Space Marines are basically just super soldiers, doing a job. They're pretty fanatical, but not religiously so. Their loyalty is to the chapter, their Primarch and the Emperor. They tend to write wee scrolls and stick em to their armour. These are often oaths or similar.

In the 41st millennium, the Emperor is deified. Marines (and indeed the whole of humanity) worship him as a god, and their war is a holy crusade. Some chapters are more fanatical than others, but generally the scrolls you see on them are prayers. Conversely, chaos marines are worshippers of one or more chaos gods. So, their armour is covered with nasty evil prayers and blood sacrifices and whatnot.

The guns are generally Bolters (or bolt guns). Google this for a pic. You will also see flamers, melta guns, plasma guns and heavier weapons like missile launchers or las cannon. Google all these + space marine for pics. Chaos marines and loyalists use the same weapons, but CSM have more spikes on theirs

Most marines who have a sword will either have a chainsword or a power sword. They may also have a power fist, which looks like a big Popeye hand.

Ok, I can't think of much else. Any more questions, just lemme know

 

[jsteel]

I could have not gotten a better answer thank you so much me_in_japan. Y'all are so knowledgeable about this stuff it's fascinating.

What are the items on there chest? do they do something for the armor?

 

[me_in_japan]

Generally the imperials will have an Aquila (stylized eagle) and the CSM will have worky bits like pipes, grilles or maybe a star. The generic icon of chaos is an 8 pointed star, so you'll see that repeated a lot on the CSM. Conversely, the sigil of the imperium is the eagle. The only exception to this is the chaos legion called The Emperor's Children, who also have aquilae, but do so mockingly/ironically. Chest plate design will also vary somewhat from chapter to chapter to legion. Eg space wolves have a lot of Viking iconography, Dark Angels have a lot of winged sword icons, etc. The best place to get a feel for this is the GW site. Try to see what makes a dark angel distinct from a space wolf or a blood angel, etc.

 

[Zab]

As a DA fan from the RT era I will say that generally we of the first legion like our comfy bathrobes! :mad-tongue:

 

[jsteel]

So there is no electrical components that make them stronger or something on the front plate. I thought I read in the second book that the front thing was for something and not just a symbol.

so the back is a power unit and doesn't make them fly? I know you said some had jumper packs but I was hoping for more of a jet pack.

js

 

[me_in_japan]

The design aesthetic of a space marine is one of crushing force. They're not really "swooshy". (For that, see the Eldar stuff.) Hence the jump pack (launch, land, crush heretic) rather than jet pack (swoosh! Pyewpyew!) Power Armour is a dense ceramic/metal composite, and weighs a ton (or thereabouts ). So, the power pack is there to enable them to move around - basically the whole suit plugs into their spine (and elsewhere) and the neural impulses that make their leg muscles move also trigger the armor to walk, which is powered by the backpack. If their power pack is damaged, a marine in armour, despite being a mega-muscled superman, can barely lift his arm, much less walk or run. Look up "space marine ps3 jump pack" for some actually rather good depictions of a space marine (in a video game) jumping around and splatting some orks. Incidentally, the space marine game for the ps3 was surprisingly good, and I have to confess to rather enjoying it

 

[RuneBrush]

Just to throw some more information into the mix. A while back GW produced "Inquisitor" which was a 40k game but played with 54mm miniatures. The rulebook is available online: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...7a&categoryId=6700005a&section=&aId=21500020a and contains lots more detailed fluff about how Power Armour works and similar - worth a read.

The power pack on a marine in addition to powering the armour also provides things like air recycling and such like which is what the vents and such like are for. Power armour is basically an "exo-suit" and contain bundles of servos that basically mimic muscles. The process that turns a boy into a marine also implants the "black carapace" and various other bits that as MiJ says allows the marine to communicate to and from the armour.

Personally, I'd read the first three HH books (30k) and then start looking into the various 40k fluff. The fall of the primarchs is actually quite tragic in a way and the first three books really set up the whole story arc.

The first Horus Heresy rule book by Forge World is a brilliant piece of work and well worth the price, however it doesn't contain as much fluff as the Black Library books and only concentrates on four legions (Sons of Horus, Death Guard, Emperors Children and World Eaters).

If you intend to game, providing your army complies with a codex and does't completely reverse timelines or existing history you can to a certain extent, make it up! I'm building a Death Guard army for 30k which I intend to use in 40k with the Chaos codex - however they'll not have any daemonic elements