\"Black Age\" project concept work unveiled, post your suggestion and opinions for this fledgling wa

coonass

New member
\"Black Age\" project concept work unveiled, post your suggestion and opinions for this fledgling wa

This is a culmination of the current concept work for “Black Age”. Black Age is still in the very early development stages but will hopefully de a very gritty and realistic, yet smooth playing, small squad combat war-game. The setting is currently a very grim one where the human race is split between the younger democratic confederacy (it’s a southern thing), and the much older empire of Terra. There are also several near human races that spawned from human “soldier production” projects that took place during its early years of expansion. There are also several alien races that are all to ready to destroy the humans.

The planned playable races are:
Confederacy
1) The confederate national military. This army is a force made up of recruits from all of the confederacy states. It will be made up of relatively elite troops with some battle suit troop options. It will use mostly rail based weaponry (long ranged, powerful, accurate, loud) and be armored with type three ablative armor (above average). The playing style of the army will be to use fewer elite troops to accomplish objectives and use a few highly specialized elites and battle suits to fulfill special roles.
Strengths: Troops are very good, able to use battle suits, well armed and armored
Weaknesses: high cost troops, little to no stealth options, not good in close combat.

2) The confederate marine corps: Also takes recruits from all of the confederacy states, but much more elite. Made up of mostly specialist troops with a few battle suit options. Armed with haze weapons (long range, multi purpose) armored with sentinel class combat armor (high). Playing style will be to use use elite troops with many specialties to accomplish objectives.
Strengths: Elite troops, almost every trooper is a specialist.
Weaknesses: Expensive

3) Yarian military: The Yarians are a confederate state that is very industrial. It’s army reflects this. The soldiers look similar to American doughboys from WWI. They use solid ammunition weapon that are have power and range, but are somewhat heavy and cumbersome. They were heavy ballistic armored and gas masks. The Yarians will work best when acting defensively and stationary. They are powerful but slow and not very good at hand to hand fighting.
Strengths: Well armed, lots of support and heavy weapons options.
Weaknesses: Slow, Yarians are not good when moving.

4) Jamain State military: Jamainians live mostly on feral and jungle worlds. Their soldiers are very tough and brutal. However, They lack the equipment available to other more industrialized states. They are lightly armored and carry mostly laser rifles. Tactic for Jamainians will include stealth and close quarters fighting.
Strengths: Jamainians are physically strong and can take more damage than other humans. Con use stealth, good at close combat.
Weaknesses: not as well equipped as other factions, more dependant on cover and terrain.

5) The ecclesiarchy militant: The ecclesiarchy is a semi theocratic state in the galatic north of the confederacy. The soldiers of the ecclesiarchy often carry decorated armor and religious icon into battle. As a military, the ecclesiarchy militant is a force of elite soldiers with high moral and very potent weaponry. Ecclesiarchy militants are armed with mostly gatling type weapons that fire highly potent, and often blessed) ammunition. Militant armor is a mix of solid armor plating combined with an integral energy field. Tactics for the ecclesiarchy will include using good all around soldiers to engage the enemy in its weak spot, while using some very unique special option to accomplish special objectives.
Strengths: Good all around soldiers, access to good equipment, lots of unique options.
Weaknesses: Expensive, jack of all trades master of none.

6) Templar Orders: These can be best described as the space marines of black age. These are super elite ecclesiarchy priest selected from the seminary at a very young age. Armed with highly decorated battle suits and armed with a wide variety of unique and powerful weaponry. They are some of the best, and most expensive, soldier in the game. Tactics for the templar orders would include using superior firepower and great close combat skill to decimate the enemy where it is weak
Strengths: Very powerful, good at everything.
Weaknesses: very expensive. Easy to overwhelm.

7) Arvanian Grande Army: Ecclesiarchy army in the extreme north of the ecclesiarchy. In look they resemble a mix of colonial British troops and Russian Red Guard. Arvanian weapons use a highly potent energy source mined along their border. This makes their weapons very powerful, but also very slow and almost incapable of rapid fire. They are armored in a way similar to standard ecclesiarchy militants. Tactics will be to stay stationary and take out the enemy from a distant. While not terrible at close combat, Arvanians are much more deadly at a distance.
Strengths: Powerful weaponry, well armored
Weaknesses: not as effective when on the move, weapons are slow.
Empire
1) Empire military: The empire is quantity and quality army of the game. The empire can field lots of troopers to overwhelm for elite factions. Empire soldiers are armed with fob (focused ozone beam) rifles or pulse rifles. They are armed with with a myriad of armor but most of it is slightly below average. The empire will also be one of the best supported militarys in the game, being able to field small walkers and vehicles. Empire tactics will include using lots of troops to keep the enemy at bay while heavy weapons and walkers take on enemy elites.
Strengths: can field lots of men, access the walkers and light vehicles
Weaknesses: relatively weak soldiers, dad at close combat.
There will be other races and factions that will be added in the future such as the black ops, a elite empire force. Other possible races will include the human sub species developed by human scientist in an attempt to manufacture soldiers, some of these races will include: the Patricians, a race that is almost entirely physic that is obsessed with wiping out the lesser human species; the Grizz, the strong, but stupid orge like race; and the aluminite, a very advanced and intelligent race. There are also several alien races in the works. More information will hopfully become available soon, and will be posted either on this forum or on the future website.

The gameplay will hopefully turn out to be smooth yet thorough. It will emphasize on the individuals rather than squad and emphasize careful strategy and long term plans. It is going to stress on how the soldiers will be affected during combat with rules for endurance, stress, and discipline. The game system is also geared toward allowing increased customization of soldiers and more options for army building

.

I am sorry that the drawings are so blurry; I am still learning the ins and outs of Photoshop and our scanner still sucks.
Please leave comments on anything that you would like to see or that you think might help in our endeavors. At this point absolutely all comments, suggestions, criticisms will be taken seriously.

Thank you for all of your help and support.
 

No Such Agency

New member
Strengths:
* Simple faction-specific weapon scheme
* Mix of army doctrines

Weaknesses:
* Many of the factions, esp. \"religious\" ones, sound a lot like the humans in 40k. Where\'s the incentive to play this game rather than 40k?
 

coonass

New member
an ecclesiarchy templar


img457ab6d3e7f0d.jpg
 
E

elouchard

Guest
I\'m sure this is not your intent but let me get this straight. Your name is coonass.. your game is called black-age.. there are confederate armies and northern armies, and religious fanatics (templars) and sub-human races.

The 40K similarities nonwithstanding (like the walking church with gatling gun and sword) , I think there are some things you may want to rethink there. Maybe you\'re on to somthing but just.. rethink a few things before moving forward.
 

Hatewall

New member
Originally posted by elouchard
I\'m sure this is not your intent but let me get this straight. Your name is coonass.. your game is called black-age.. there are confederate armies and northern armies, and religious fanatics (templars) and sub-human races.

The 40K similarities nonwithstanding (like the walking church with gatling gun and sword) , I think there are some things you may want to rethink there. Maybe you\'re on to somthing but just.. rethink a few things before moving forward.

you caught that too?

Although, the artwork is a bit unpolished it is amazingly detailed. That is what stood out the most to me.
 

Hatewall

New member
After looking back at your post, I have some thoughts.

Your game design is borderline plagerism of 40k, but your concept art is fascinating. It\'s very unpolished and one dimensional but there is something there that you should persue.

Forget about designing a game and work on the traditional art.

I\'ll pay you $20 to draw something for me and pay you through paypal. I\'ll cover the post fees. I want the original at least on 8.5 x 11 but please dont use a piece of copy/printer paper.

It\'s not much but it is a commission. Let me know if you want to do it and I\'ll tell you what I would like and where to mail it to.
 

coonass

New member
disambiguation

Originally posted by No Such Agency
Strengths:
* Simple faction-specific weapon scheme
* Mix of army doctrines

Weaknesses:
* Many of the factions, esp. \"religious\" ones, sound a lot like the humans in 40k. Where\'s the incentive to play this game rather than 40k?

This is probably my fault for being vague, 40k deals with armies, Black Age is set at a much smaller scale, similar to Inquisitor. Players will probably field roughly ten to twenty soldiers each. as for the similarities, they are very similar, but hopefully we can work the factions into somthing unique before anything official gets released. :D
 

coonass

New member
In my defense, i\'m not racist, i hate everyone equally. Secondly, I love 40k, so the first concept of a wargame i make are going to mirror somthing i like. Anything published officially: army books, sculpts, whatever, is still probably years away, time enough to work myself out of plagarizing games workshop.

However i do like it that i\'m finally getting some substancial feedback, keep it coming
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Please host your pictures on a site such as Photobucket, and then link to them here.

I think submissions to Coolminiornot should be limited to miniatures....

Thanks.
 
J

JakeSh

Guest
It definately sounds very racist - tone it down a bit. The Confederates and the Y-arians versus the Jamains (obviously afro-centric) and subhumans. I can see people being offended.

It is very 40k-ish. Even down to your names. Templars, the Empire, and Ecclesiarchy. You are really going to need to work on distancing your influences. Also, what is going to make me want to play this over Inquisitor or Necromunda?

I\'ll agree the art is good, though.
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
I\'m going to dis-agree with Hinton, it\'s not borderline Plagarism of 40K it is blatent Plagarism.
Not only are there immediately drawn parrallels with 40K, but also with Urban War from Urban Mammoth and Infinity.

For Example:
The confederate national military & The confederate marine corps = Space Marines.

Yarian military =Death Korps of Krieg,
Jamain State militaryCatachan Jungle fighters
& Empire military Bog standard Imperial Guard

Templar Orders: These can be best described as the space marines of black age.
Man you\'ve just shot yourself to pieces with your own words.
Even the very name Black Age is an echo of GW\'s description of 40K =
In the grim darkness of the far future there is only War.

You artwork, while displaying talent, is so much a copy of the GW / John Blanche style.

I have to say this but all you are doing at the moment is making yourself a target for GW\'s Lawyers.


If you really want to create a NEW and Unique game first look at the games I\'ve mentioned above and then rework your basic premise of the game. Throw out everything that can have a direct comparison.
 

dende

New member
plagiarize...

Sry, but I don´t think you do his work justice.
I agree that there are a lot of parallels between his concept and 40k, but on the other hand I didn´t see anybody go crazy about rackham plagiarizing cause they got orks, gobbos, elves... etc. etc.
And sry Dragonsreach but i think you went too far calling his drawing a copy, if I were the artist i would feel offended, of course it´s similiar to john blanche, but when painting fantasy it´s as good as impossible to do something that someone else hasn´t done before, at least in a similiar way.
I agree that he has to get a bit away of the 40k feeling, but don´t be so harsh.
Hope you keep working on it and you really are a fine artist

greetings roman
 

Sand Rat

New member
Originally posted by dende
Sry, but I don´t think you do his work justice.
I agree that there are a lot of parallels between his concept and 40k, but on the other hand I didn´t see anybody go crazy about rackham plagiarizing cause they got orks, gobbos, elves... etc. etc.

Umm have you looked outside the GW Universe? Orks, Goblins, Elves, Eldar/Elder Race, Dwarves, Halflings, etc and et alus existed in both liturature and fokelore long before GW came to be in the 1970\'s, so GW really cannot sue anyone for using those concepts. If they did, it would be like when TSR tried to copywrite Nazi - laughed right out of court.

As for the rest, you may see it as derivative, but a copywrite lawyer would prolly see it as a good reason for a law suit.
 

dende

New member
Yeah I see your point, but GW are also not the first to do something like space-marines,\"aliens\" tyranids, \"the humans\" = Imperial army ...etc., just look at some old sf literature, in my opinion these are archetypes just like elves, dwarves... in fantasy.
He didn´t go to much in to detail with his description of the fractions so for me these are basic archetypes that can be developed from that point.
Also the \"church\" as a powerfull source is not something GW alone uses. Transfer rackhams templars into SF minis and they would be real close to space marines. Also I don´t think he could get problems because of the artwork, if you could sue somebody cause of that the guy who made the first \"fantasy-half-naked-goth-women-calendar\" would be a millionaire:)
Of course he has to get away from gw a lot more even if only to don´t get problems with GWs lawyers. I just felt that his work wasn´t appreciated enough,
there is just criticism (too harsh in my opinion ) and no positive replies which is not what a community should look like.

So I hope you keep working on it and perhaps in the near future your ideas will more look like something new.
Greetings Roman
 

demonherald

New member
It\'s always hard to avoid plagarism when there is something so strong as the GW universe already created ....... GW know this and GW protect it ..It\'s better you get this kind of feedback now and not at a later date when it can really cost you..

The concept art while showing promise as an artist would not look out of place in a current 40K codex... (post it on a gw forum and straight away it would be labelled as concept for upcoming Emperors champion or something alike.The general shape proportions weapons all scream 40K.Also (Ecclesiarchy Templar) Yeah I know historically used and \"real world\" names but again so 40K.....

It is a brave thing your attempting but that doesn\'t mean give up just rethink ....original ideas are the hardest thing in the world that\'s why not everybodies doing it..Gw will have gone through similar first steps avoiding the then strong themes (star wars star trek) and coming up with something different and original.And eventually they cracked it.

It\'s really down to thinking outside the box. An example I\'ve seen a lately and I really like is the Dark Age Range..There concept just feels original and when you look at it you don\'t think of anything else.. (well I don\'t anyway)...This is what it takes a Fresh new look and something that doesn\'t remind anyone of anything else.. Sound impossible ?? well as i said if it was easy everyone would do it.

don\'t be disheartened by it use it tweak it and keep it developing if you really want to do it you will.

the only thing that limits anything in this hobby and in any thing we create is the human imagination and it\'s amazing how small we can make it when we have something strong to follow.It\'s all about kicking any preconceived idea out of your head and unlocking that little bit in all of our brains somewhere that hasn\'t been awoken and coming up with something totally unique.

Good Luck with what your attempting and I hope it goes well as I think everyone in the hobby would benefit....

(I for one think thee isn\'t enough hairy aliens on the market:idea:)
 

dende

New member
An afterthougth...

Just as an afterthougth you really should go for something that can not so easily be interpreted as racism. I fully believe you that this was not your goal but this is something I would be very carefull with.

P.S. Sry if my english is not perfect I´m from Germany
 
I believe that Jamain is the main continent of a I.C.E. Roleplay world.

I agree with everyone else.
You have got to research what is already out on the market and make sure you won\'t be stepping on anyone elses toes. Good luck with your game design and all the best to the future. ;)
 

Talion

New member
I agree that the pictures look extremely familiar with 40k but I wouldn\'t go as far as plagerism.

as far as

For Example:
The confederate national military & The confederate marine corps = Space Marines.

Yarian military =Death Korps of Krieg,
Jamain State military = Catachan Jungle fighters
& Empire military = Bog standard Imperial Guard

goes as long as you don\'t call them 40k names then your not copying, otherwise GW would\'ve had their pants sued off of them before they started.

tone the pic\' down a bit, get rid of the obviouse Space Marine Shoulder pads. And you could be onto something good.

You have the right to use names such as Templars, the Empire, and Ecclesiarchy as GW doesn\'t have any rights over them (however it does add to the 40k reference\'s). Half the names GW use are standard mythological or historical names which any one can use. Don\'t be afraid of them, if GW wnat to try and sue let them, as long as you\'re not obviously copying them, they won\'t stand a chance.

My advice make them slightly less 40k related.
 
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