Bigfish2020
New member
By my count the Targaryen starter box has been out now for about 10 months or so, yet there hasn't been anything done about some of the balance issues with the units.
For example Jorah Mormont - The Wandering Knight at 3 points almost seems like it was an accidental misprint or something, easily the most terrible unit in the Targaryen army and from what I can tell in the game as a whole. Even if offered for free (0 points) I would question the logic of using him for anything more then an extra activation since there are so many things that can just kill him at will without any rolls. Putting him into your list is the equivalent of starting your opponent with 1 point.
I mean he has worse stats then free units. You might make an argument for Scout Openings but seeing as you already get similar ability for 1 point with the Outrider KO which can actually survive in a unit of outriders to perform the ability, it seems crazy for this to be a reason to put him in the list. He is a terrible liability on his best day.
Am I crazy?
Then there is the Veterans, arguably one of the best Calvary units in the Targaryen army stat wise and certainly an argument can be made for them but at 10 points you have to question the logic of choosing them over a couple of screamers for 2 more points. Its a great unit but its just too expensive and there is no precedence anywhere else in the game for such a cost heavy unit. There are only 2 other units in the game at that price, the Builder Stone Throwers which from an asymmetrical stand point its difficult to compare. The closest thing you can sort of look at is the upcoming Champions of the Stag but even though its also a Calvary unit, realistically with a move of 4 what it essentially is, is a fast moving infantry unit, having both the benefits of Calvary and infantry and then some in the same unit. I mean this is a unit you are not going to try and flank with, its a hard hitting, heavy armored infantry on horseback suffering none of the disadvantages of a typical cavalry, they have a +2 defense save for crying out loud, they are a better infantry unit then most infantry units.
Then there is the Screamers themselves, a generic Calvary that does nothing special until you add a KO, which in itself is not unbalanced, but it is rather boring given that this is really your only cheap option unless you go neutral to field something at a reasonable price, though I think I could make an argument for this unit costing 5 points as is, or at least make it adaptive so that you can put a KO in it for free. Strictly speaking why would use Screamers instead of Zorse Riders? Same costs, almost exactly the same stats, only difference is 1 morale for which you get 2 abilities (Motely Armaments and Disruption Tactics), a lopsided trade if there ever was one.
I don't know how anyone else feels about it, but to me the Targaryen's while certainly fun to play, really don't offer much diversity or competition and most of their units have better or cheaper offerings in neutral units then their core units. Zorze Riders instead of screamers, Flayed Men instead of Veterans, even an argument could be made to use stormcrows over outriders since you can stick an unsullied officer on them for a much better ranged unit. Most scenarios do not favor an all Calvary faction and our ground force options start at a staggering 9 points unless you go neutral. Our solo is overpriced and would still be terrible if he were free, the veterans are way too over priced to justify, your kind of left with running screamers and outriders with various neutrals very favorably competing against them. Unsullied are the most interesting additions thus far but again like the Veteran they are so expensive that you really have to think long and hard if they will be able to earn their points at the table. Running 3 units of screamers and an outrider as a base for the Targaryen lists feels like the only sane thing to do if you want to at least give the appearance of being competitive.
It seems to me that the Targaryens are suffering what I like to call designer expertise, where the designers of the game have played it so much and have gotten so good with it that they forget that most of us don't play often enough to reach the expertise required to run armies like Targaryens which I do believe even in their current form can be fairly competitive in the hands of an extremely skilled player, but I don't think that extreme expertise can be a balancing feature of an army, as skill being equal they still end up at the low end of the spectrum as a whole. Right now to me the Targaryens appear to be the weakest army by a fairly large margin, I'm yet to even see anyone win a game with them. I won one time by the skin of my teeth and largely by simply avoiding fighting all together and just running circles around my opponent scoring objectives.
I'm sure more plays will reveal additional strategies and there is something to be said about the luck of the dice, but right now I feel like everything in the army is overpriced and underwhelming with neutral units out performing the core Targaryen units.
Anyone else?
For example Jorah Mormont - The Wandering Knight at 3 points almost seems like it was an accidental misprint or something, easily the most terrible unit in the Targaryen army and from what I can tell in the game as a whole. Even if offered for free (0 points) I would question the logic of using him for anything more then an extra activation since there are so many things that can just kill him at will without any rolls. Putting him into your list is the equivalent of starting your opponent with 1 point.
I mean he has worse stats then free units. You might make an argument for Scout Openings but seeing as you already get similar ability for 1 point with the Outrider KO which can actually survive in a unit of outriders to perform the ability, it seems crazy for this to be a reason to put him in the list. He is a terrible liability on his best day.
Am I crazy?
Then there is the Veterans, arguably one of the best Calvary units in the Targaryen army stat wise and certainly an argument can be made for them but at 10 points you have to question the logic of choosing them over a couple of screamers for 2 more points. Its a great unit but its just too expensive and there is no precedence anywhere else in the game for such a cost heavy unit. There are only 2 other units in the game at that price, the Builder Stone Throwers which from an asymmetrical stand point its difficult to compare. The closest thing you can sort of look at is the upcoming Champions of the Stag but even though its also a Calvary unit, realistically with a move of 4 what it essentially is, is a fast moving infantry unit, having both the benefits of Calvary and infantry and then some in the same unit. I mean this is a unit you are not going to try and flank with, its a hard hitting, heavy armored infantry on horseback suffering none of the disadvantages of a typical cavalry, they have a +2 defense save for crying out loud, they are a better infantry unit then most infantry units.
Then there is the Screamers themselves, a generic Calvary that does nothing special until you add a KO, which in itself is not unbalanced, but it is rather boring given that this is really your only cheap option unless you go neutral to field something at a reasonable price, though I think I could make an argument for this unit costing 5 points as is, or at least make it adaptive so that you can put a KO in it for free. Strictly speaking why would use Screamers instead of Zorse Riders? Same costs, almost exactly the same stats, only difference is 1 morale for which you get 2 abilities (Motely Armaments and Disruption Tactics), a lopsided trade if there ever was one.
I don't know how anyone else feels about it, but to me the Targaryen's while certainly fun to play, really don't offer much diversity or competition and most of their units have better or cheaper offerings in neutral units then their core units. Zorze Riders instead of screamers, Flayed Men instead of Veterans, even an argument could be made to use stormcrows over outriders since you can stick an unsullied officer on them for a much better ranged unit. Most scenarios do not favor an all Calvary faction and our ground force options start at a staggering 9 points unless you go neutral. Our solo is overpriced and would still be terrible if he were free, the veterans are way too over priced to justify, your kind of left with running screamers and outriders with various neutrals very favorably competing against them. Unsullied are the most interesting additions thus far but again like the Veteran they are so expensive that you really have to think long and hard if they will be able to earn their points at the table. Running 3 units of screamers and an outrider as a base for the Targaryen lists feels like the only sane thing to do if you want to at least give the appearance of being competitive.
It seems to me that the Targaryens are suffering what I like to call designer expertise, where the designers of the game have played it so much and have gotten so good with it that they forget that most of us don't play often enough to reach the expertise required to run armies like Targaryens which I do believe even in their current form can be fairly competitive in the hands of an extremely skilled player, but I don't think that extreme expertise can be a balancing feature of an army, as skill being equal they still end up at the low end of the spectrum as a whole. Right now to me the Targaryens appear to be the weakest army by a fairly large margin, I'm yet to even see anyone win a game with them. I won one time by the skin of my teeth and largely by simply avoiding fighting all together and just running circles around my opponent scoring objectives.
I'm sure more plays will reveal additional strategies and there is something to be said about the luck of the dice, but right now I feel like everything in the army is overpriced and underwhelming with neutral units out performing the core Targaryen units.
Anyone else?
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