Zombie fans, opinions please!

[Einion]

Wasn't sure which forum this would be best in but I figured it would get most views here so....

Wanted to get any opinions on where to draw the line, if anywhere, on the level of gore on realistic zombie sculpts.

I'm a fan of later zombie films and The Walking Dead which feature very realistic/believable damage to the zombies, from being fed on initially as well as the various things that might have happened to them since they died. Some of it is necessarily gruesome, occasionally really gruesome, but you tend not to see them for very long.

Obviously it's different when it comes to something static like a figure sculpt or a bust and I wonder if anyone thinks there should be a slightly different standard for the most gory of damage, like spilled guts, peeled scalp or chewed muscle?

Thanks in advance!

Einion

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

Whats the purpose of the sculpts - personal piece or for general sale? I am guessing the latter in which case so long as it isn't something disturbing like an exposed foetus in a a pregnant zombie (yes I recently saw one...) you're pretty much okay with any basic kind of disgustingness. Its a gaming figure, people expect exposed brains and such like. Just dont do disturbing!! If its a bust or a larger display piece I would say any level of disturbing is okay. People buy such things for such imaginitive creativity displayed by the artist, no ones going to be upset by a zombie sculpt. Gaming figures used by younger players obviously, just stick to standard basic cliched imagery.

dfb

 

[10 ball]

Because of the subject matter you can push the gore real far.
Anything with children is a no no imo.

 

[moonmin82]

Yup, I think gory little details add to the believabilty factor, add character and hint at the back story of the zombie (before it turned, how it got infected, etc).

 

[freakinacage]

I work in the NHS. The more gore the better

 

[QuietiManes]

I kind of like to see the whole scale. Just because you're a zombie doesn't mean you have to be all chewed up and disemboweled, right? So it's nice to see some of that but it's also kind of cool to see at least some evidence of how they turned. It's also cool to see lots of evidence of how they turned, how they've been damaged and decomposed over time, etc. So, my vote would be to have various stages of decomposition and bodily damage, from none to lots. If you're doing multiples that is. If it's just a singular zombie, I vote for a crawler. :tremble!:

 

[Dragonsreach]

Ok physical mechanics of the human body are based around ligaments and muscles so when muscles get chomped on the mechanics is gonna fail.
So logically (Logic on Zombies?) you'll eventually end up with just a static skull.

Thinking about it entrails and internal organs are gonna rot away faster so if there is a rip in the body chances are that the internals will tear away faster due to the rot.
You could have Zombies with a foot missing, hobbling around on the remains of the Tibia & Fibia. Ditto crawling around minus Legs at Knees or Hips.

 

[freakinacage]

Tibia & Fibula

Corrected for you Mike.. ;P

 

[Dragonsreach]

Corrected for you Mike.. ;P

Tsk, Tsk and I was a First aider.
Cheers Tim.

 

[supervike]

I work in the NHS. The more gore the better

Exactly this.

Except for the bit about the NHS.

 

[mud duck]

But would there be a lot of gory after the person died? I mean, doesn't the blood in the body start to pool in the feet and the lower extremities without the heart pumping? So any cuts or shots or whatnots would be maybe just a little blood and some dried out matter if they happened above a certain point?

 

[TrystanGST]

I kind of like to see the whole scale. Just because you're a zombie doesn't mean you have to be all chewed up and disemboweled, right? So it's nice to see some of that but it's also kind of cool to see at least some evidence of how they turned. It's also cool to see lots of evidence of how they turned, how they've been damaged and decomposed over time, etc. So, my vote would be to have various stages of decomposition and bodily damage, from none to lots. If you're doing multiples that is. If it's just a singular zombie, I vote for a:tremble!: crawler.

I like this. A lot of times it seems there are little to no zombies that don't look like they've been in an artillery strike. If you were alive (zombies don't bite other zombies or dead bodies, right?) then you're not likely to be mortally wounded before being bitten and turning. So why are ALL the zombies mangled?

 

[Einion]

Thanks for all the input, appreciate it :good:

...so long as it isn't something disturbing like an exposed foetus in a a pregnant zombie (yes I recently saw one...)

This on a sculpt? Out of curiosity what scale?

This is a great example: obviously for some people that crosses a line they don't want crossed (one they maybe hadn't realised was there).

I hadn't thought of anything quite that loaded TBH, although there is a certain inevitability for ideas to crop up if you think about the subject for long enough, nearly everything will occur to you eventually even without saying to yourself , "What hasn't been done yet?"

If its a bust or a larger display piece I would say any level of disturbing is okay. People buy such things for such imaginitive creativity displayed by the artist, no ones going to be upset by a zombie sculpt. Gaming figures used by younger players obviously, just stick to standard basic cliched imagery.

Ta. Expected that would be the view of most of the target audience.

Yup, I think gory little details add to the believabilty factor, add character and hint at the back story of the zombie (before it turned, how it got infected, etc).

Yep, exactly the kind of thing I like. There's some of this even in the B&W Romero original, but they do this particularly well in modern zombie flicks/TV.

I kind of like to see the whole scale. Just because you're a zombie doesn't mean you have to be all chewed up and disemboweled, right?

Totally. Definitely a huge range of wound levels and later damage/decay that can all be depicted, and should be if you're doing multiples. To use The Walking Dead as an example: this goes all the way down to no bites, all the way up to nearly a walking skeleton.

Ok physical mechanics of the human body are based around ligaments and muscles so when muscles get chomped on the mechanics is gonna fail.

Right on the money.

Re. the logic thing, you're right to be doubtful about applying it to zombies; while you can go more realistic in various ways there's definitely a suspension of disbelief when it comes to the whole subject, not just the biomechanics of ambulatory dead bodies. I don't think we should go into it because it's a whole other level of gross; it's probably ignored in movie/TV zombies for this reason.

But would there be a lot of gory after the person died?

I think gore does correctly refer to blood, I should have said grisly.

There is of course plenty of scope for blood from the initial attack(s) of course but you're right, there should be little or no spilled blood from damage incurred after death.

Einion

 

[uglybug]

How long do zombies live for? I mean doesn't the flesh keep decaying? Where are all the flies and maggots? At least walking dead series gets creative with different levels of decay. Or the one zombie in the well the was all bloated and waterlogged that was clever.

 

[Einion]

How long do zombies live for? I mean doesn't the flesh keep decaying? Where are all the flies and maggots?

Good questions. Like I was saying to my girlfriend after one episode of The Walking Dead, there's no way a zombie should be able to sneak up on someone - you should hear the flies. This is assuming you can't smell it coming from about 100 feet away!

Einion

 

[Bloodhowl]

How long do zombies live for? I mean doesn't the flesh keep decaying? Where are all the flies and maggots? At least walking dead series gets creative with different levels of decay. Or the one zombie in the well the was all bloated and waterlogged that was clever.

The average zombie "life span" - how long it is able to function before completely rotting away - is estimated at three to five years. As fantastic as this sounds - a human corpse able to ward off the natural effects of decay - its cause is rooted in basic biology. When a human body dies, its flesh is immediately set upon by billions of microscopic organisms. These organisms were always present, in the external environment and within the body itself. In life, the immune system stood as a barrier between these organisms and their target. In death, that barrier is removed. The organisms begin multiplying exponentially as they proceed to eat and, thereby, break down the corpse on a cellular level. The smell and discoloration associated with any decaying meat are the biological process of these microbes at work. When you order an "aged" steak, you are ordering a piece of meat that has begun to rot, its formerly toughened flesh softened by microorganisms breaking down its sturdy fiber.

Within a short time, that steak, like a human corpse, will dissolve to nothing, leaving behind only material with no nutritional value, or is too hard for any microbe, such as bone, teeth, nails, and hair. This is the normal cycle of life, nature's way of recycling nutrients back into the food chain. To halt this process, and preserve dead tissue, it is necessary to place it in an environment unsuitable for bacteria, such as in extreme low or high temperatures, in toxic chemicals such as formaldehyde, or, in this case, to saturate it with Solanum. Almost all the microbe species involved in normal human decomposition have repeatedly rejected flesh infected by the virus, effectively embalming the zombie. Were this not the case, combating the living dead would be as easy as avoiding them for several weeks or even days until they rotted away to bones. Research has yet to discover the exact cause of this condition.

It has been determined that at least some microbe species ignore the repelling effects of Solanum - otherwise, the undead would remain perfectly preserved forever. It has also been determined that natural conditions such as moisture and temperature play an important role as well. Undead that prowl the bayous of Louisiana are unlikely to last as long as those in the cold, dry Gobi desert. Extreme situations, such as deep freezing or immersion in preservative fluid, could, hypothetically, allow an undead specimen to exist indefinitely. These techniques have been known to allow zombies to function for decades, if not centuries. (See "[[Recorded Attacks]]") Decomposition does not mean that a member of the walking dead will simply drop. Decay may affect various parts of the body at different times. Specimens have been found with brains intact but nearly disintegrated bodies. Others with partially rotted brains may control some bodily functions but be completely paralyzed in others. A popular theory has recently circulated that attempts to explain the story of the ancient Egyptian mummy as one of the first examples of an embalmed zombie. The preservation techniques allowed it to function several thousand years after being entombed. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of ancient Egypt would find this story almost laughably untrue: The most important and complicated step in preparing a pharaoh for burial was the removal of the brain! (Of course in any ritual, no matter how bizarre, there is always some important reason behind it's practice...)

- excerpt from The Zomie Survival Guide by Max Brooks

For God's sakes people, read the Zombie Survival Guide! If you don't, how do you plan to survive when the zombie apocalypse happens!?!?

 

[QuietiManes]

For God's sakes people, read the Zombie Survival Guide! If you don't, how do you plan to survive when the zombie apocalypse happens!?!?

That time line is ONLY applicable to the zombies in that fictional universe, referred to in Max Brooks books. Every fictional universe filled with zombies has its own set of rules and limitations that the zombies, and their lifespan, must follow. So when the zombie apocalypse hits OUR universe, be ready for some unexpected results. The wise adapt...stay safe.

you should hear the flies

How long do flies and other bugs/insects/rodents/whatever actually remain interested in a dead body? It might not go beyond however long it takes a body to dry out, there are some animal bodies in the forest and the desert that are more than just bones though, so some bodies at least, don't see much "insect traffic".

How does the zombie virus affect a bugs attraction? It lengthens a zombies lifespan in Max Brooks books, maybe it repels flies as well in The Walking Dead.

Also, how would their interest change due to it moving around and growling? It would probably spread out the aroma increasing the number of insects that might be interested but moving around would probably also decrease the interested parties, whether to feed or multiply, if for no other reason than instinct.


Maybe I'm thinking about it all too much. But I hope more zombie flicks start putting some more thought into it. Even though I appreciate the variety in The Walking Dead for example, they still don't seem to consider the timeline. For example, if you come into an area that was JUST overrun, then ALL the zombies FROM that area should be NEW zombies, various amounts of wounds still, yes, but they shouldn't look like they were turned months or years apart.

 

[ischa]

be realistic and get into anatomy, if you show brain bits, be sure to know what they do. a zombie with a premotorcortex or primary motor cortex showing wont be able to move, while frontal cortex parts showing, will probably just act wierd, and that would be natural, they dont really have a personality one with a backhead damage will be blinded etc.

 

[RuneBrush]

I suppose realism is dependant upon the "environment" the zombie is from. So a real-world zombie (if there is such a thing) might apply real world anatomy (as as been outlined already - weirdo's ; ). A high fantasy zombie actually is much simpler - it's animated using necromancy so functions until such point that all the meat drops off it and it becomes a skeleton.

remember - remove the head

 

[Noddwyr]

...so long as it isn't something disturbing like an exposed foetus in a a pregnant zombie (yes I recently saw one...)

This on a sculpt? Out of curiosity what scale?

This is a great example: obviously for some people that crosses a line they don't want crossed (one they maybe hadn't realised was there).

Click HERE for a photo of the sculpt with the pregnant zombie with fetus. CAREFUL, NSFW. Its in 1:6 scale, so fairly large. HERE is the guys blog, he does all sorts of cool stuff.