Working With Metallics

[Mr.S.Marbo]

Ok, I can\'t do NMM at the moment.... not a chance.. I would need a huge amount of practice and a huge amount of time. I have quite a few knights I want to get painted up, and for speed (and the fact I can\'t do NMM lol) they will be done in metallic paints.

What I would like to know is any tips on \"highlighting\" and shading metallics. How does everyone do it? I have always tried to use as little metallics as possible on my minis as it doesn\'t turn out looking too great over large areas (but looks good in very small areas). Obviously with knights, large areas are going to need to look metal .. ahhhh!

Do you use glazes (such as light blues) to \"brighten\" up areas that are in a position that would reflect more light, and darker washes (eg black) to make area\'s facing the ground that aren\'t reflecting much light look darker?? Would you mix white into a metallic colour to make it lighter / brighter?

Anyway tips are greatly appreciated. I\'m curently working on an idea of a very light blue glaze for the areas that would be reflecting light more, combined with other effects and blending that I\'m not yet sure how to acheive. I picked this idea up, which I think looks very good, off Jenovas\' website (thanks Jenova) at: www.jenova.dk/BretonnianKnight.htm

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to reply.

 

[Chrispy]

Okay, you\'re not going to like this: some of the top artists are using metallics as NMM.. I know that makes little sense but hear me out: The shadows of the sword is not going to be gleaming like the highlighted side. Some also blend the tips up which is kinda like NMM, but only in the fact that you\'re making depth and such.

As for ading white, I\'ve never heard of doing something like that to metallics.. usually you would see the difference in the paint flecks of metallics to the opaque white.. that\'s not to say it can be done, but generally people use a really shiny metal color like silver or such. Vallejo makes both alchohol and water based metallics.. thoug I\'ve yet to buy some and know the difference, I know you couldn\'t mix the two well.

And finally, I know this is a base trick but painting the weapon black or adding black to a dark metal color does wonders. White basecoats just make it look strange. Inks are good, but remember that they are semi-transparent so you would see the shininess under them.

Hope that helps and happy painting!

 

[Jenova]

Hey Glad you like knight.

I\'ve been experimenting a little with metalllics lately. The method Chrispy decribes (combined NMM and metallics) can work well. It\'s alot quicker than NMM and you don\'t have to be as neat.

I\'ve also tried painting NMM and then washing with metallics. So for steel I\'ll use greys and white, paint the weapon NMM style (but alot less neat than for \"real\" NMM) and then paint slightly dilluted Boltgun Metal on top. The result is a brighter metal colour than painting over a black undercoat.

My favorite is still glazing metallics with dilluted inks or paint though. A glaze of blue on a steel armour can really give a nice cold look while gold glazed with a reddish brown like Bestial Brown or Vermin Brown has a nice warm glow. You can also experiment with steel glazed with purple (evil look), vermin brown (rusty) or green (Nurgle style).

Good luck with the project and be sure to post the results

 

[Infidel Castro]

Dark, dark browns...

Hey Marbo!

Here\'s something I\'ve tinkered with and it works well:

Start your base coat with a very, very dark brown/black mix, just enough brown so that it isn\'t jet black. Use tin bitz from GW paints as this will be very similar in hue to the brown/black. Work up through Bolt Gun and Chainmail, moving to the edges as you feel it should, then finish with Mithril. Glaze it with a little orange/brown ink extremely diluted a coupla times (more brown than orange - also vary your use of Tin Bitz as it is very dark bronze-ish if you know what I mean. Good old armour based style though).

I will also try this from a very dark blue - almost black soon and just go straight onto Bolt Gun with maybe a little blue+black ink mixed with the metals, cutting down to zero ink with the final highlight.

Do try a normal chainmail coat and wash with blue/black (more black ). Keep hold of the ink and add little bits to the chainmail and Mithril to keep it easier to blend with, though not so much you end up losing variation between layers. then glaze...

Is that enough or what!!:innocent:

 

[vincegamer]

Being cheap, I don\'t have a lot of paint to choose from. Originally I only had Mithril Silver (as it was the first good metalic acrylic I found - I used to use enamels for the metal surfaces). I have worked out two methods that work pretty well.

1. Paint the item black with highlights taken through gray all the way to white.
Cover with a very thin layer of Mithril Silver.

2. Mixing method. White does NOT work to lighten silver. The metal particles become too indistinct and you will hate it.
That said, black DOES work to darken it.
I will mix some black (not much) with Boltgun (as I slowly acquire more resources), then work up the highlights with straight Boltgun and a Boltgun/Mithril mix, the brightest points being Mithril.
Well, that was until I got the Vallejo basic set. Vallejo Silver is almost exactly the same color as GW Mithril Silver - almost.
I think Vallejo\'s is a tiny bit brighter, so that is now my final highlight.

 

[Mr.S.Marbo]

Thanks Vincegamer, Reverend, Jenova and Chrispy!

Hmmm I think I have kind of decided how to proceed. I\'m looking at a black basecoat with quite dark to quite light metallic \"highlights\" and bit of a glaze to kind of pull it all together.

All I have to do now is look up some historical / heraldry references to see what colours to use and what types of \"designs\" I should have on the barding. This also could be tricky as I can\'t freehand draw hehe.

I\'m also not too sure about the \"decoration\" on the actual models themsleves (like griffons / eagles / deer 3D things on the armour and helms), however I have seen on coats of arms, seals and medieval tapestry some of this sort of thing so I guess its not totally far fetched.. lol The models are I guess more fantasy than historical anyway; however I\'ll try and get a bit of historical reference into the painting....

The site is a great place to get some inspiration from btw... Looking forward to see everyones new posts.

Anyway cheers for your input and have a good weekend!

 

[vincegamer]

Feel free to ask me any questions about medieval heraldry as I flatter myself by thinking myself a minor expert. I also have a few books on the subject. I find it applies well to minis because the basic rule in heraldry is make it visible from a distance. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[fredy]

working with metallics

hi,
i would also like to give my 2 Cent to this subject. there are a lot of different ways to work with metallics. after 4 years in miniatur painting i have found my favorite way. if the scale of the mini allows i polish the metall parts. then i am going to paínt the shadows with oil coulors ( a mix of lamp black and kobalt blue) for iron . i do this several times and allways add some more black to the deeper shadows. before the oil coulor is completely dry i polish the highlights again and remove the coulor from certain areas. if you like you can use a glossy warnish to finish. if the mini is to small to polish ( or not made of metall ) i paint the basecoat with a mix of black, blue and oily steel ( vallejo ). on this coat i start to light the coulor up with adding more oily steel and at the end some chainmail ( citatell coulor ). the shadows with adding more black. for the last highlights you can use some silver. it is very important to keep the coulors as liquid as possible and better paint some more layers because if the coulor is not liquid enought you will never get a even surface. with gold i have find out a very special method. the most important thing with gold is the basecoat. i use a mix of burnt umber and bestial brown for the basecoat. when it is completly dry i start with 2 to 3 very thin layers of bronze over the basecoat. after that you must deciede if you want a dark antik gold or a light shinning gold. for dark gold i add smoke ( vallejo ) and some green to the bronze and paint the shadows - for the deepest shadows some black. for light shining gold i add a medium brown ( and a very small amount of blue ) for the shadows. The gimmik on the gold are the highligts. i use printers ink for them ( very expensive but incredible to use ). in the first steps i add the ink to the bronze coulor and for the highlights i use it pure. for reflections i add a small amount of silver.
well ,please excuse my poor english ( i am from austria - europe ) but i hope to give you some new ideas on this subject. if you have specific questions please feel free to post a message and ask. it is very difficult to explain certain techiques ( if you are not a native english speaker even more ), it would be much easier to show.

best regards
fredy

 

[Mr.S.Marbo]

Thanks Vincegamer, I\'m not sure yet how I am going to paint them though. I was wondering though, if medieval knights had the 3D designs on top of thier helms at all what were these things made of?

I am about to get some Vallejo metallics and I am just trying to choose my colours now. Any help on what colours are particularly useful would be great.

Danke Fredy. Wie gehts? Ok that\'s most of the German I know. I took lessons for a year and a half (night classes) and unfortunately languages were never my strong point What do you mean by \"i polish the metal parts\" is this to get a smooth surface?

Cheers.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Polishing and mixes

Hello again Mr Marbo.

I think Fredy is getting at a style that works on 54 mm and above minis normally, the idea being that you polish the metal to represent burnished/polished armour. He\'d polish the metal, add the paint in the recesses, polish again, add shade again, the pewter/lead being in itself the armour rather than using paint on the highlights. This is drop dead gorgeous on some minis, well worth a look when using Pegaso and other bigger pieces. It would be interesting to see some smaller scale examples too...

Another thing that struck me and I think was mentioned by another post in this chain is the idea of using both NMM and Metals on the same piece. Here\'s a story about what I did about 7 months ago...

I was painting miniatures from the 2-3rd crusades for Griffin Miniatures (I had only recently started with them) and as you can imagine there tends to be a fair bit of armour/metal on some of the pieces. On large areas such as chainmail and helmets metals seemed to go very nicely, but when it came to silly little things like the pommels of swords in their scabbards, using silver/chainmail coloured paints looked really out of place on such a small area. Quite unaware of what I was doing I started painting them dark grey and then added really contrasting highlights on the more reflective areas. From a distance they looked just like metal but they weren\'t! :idea:

I then realised that a lot of people were using the method on this site (when I got here) and they also showed all the theory as well. I\'d started using NMM without realising what it was! I think it\'s a natural progression in some respects. I bet many other people stumbled on it like that as well.

What I\'m trying to say is, use metallics on larger areas and NMM on smaller areas for a balanced look, otherwise metallics can look out of sync. Or just use NMM and take the plunge. It\'s always best to have all the styles possible at your disposal.

There, me hands ache.

Take care.

Phil

 

[Infidel Castro]

Also...

That\'s some nice concise stuff on Jenovas website! Good tutorials without dissolving into a gooey mess of jargon. I\'ve got that one in my favourites list of tutorials right enough.