Weekend Battle Report

[Swan]

Played a skirmish this weekend with the new cards, no motivations, just straight up combat. Forced were

Teknes
2 Union Bosses
1 Lineman Defender Controller
13 Union Workers
5 Linemen Defenders
1 C.A.G.E.
2 Zaalak

Goritsi
1 Herald of Blood
1 Dancing Master
18 War Dancers
2 Shield Breakers
1 Gregorio Don Sissora


Things we found and questions that came up:

For the Teknes, the saving grace of the force were the specialists, which accounted for the first blood, and slowed the inevitable onslaught. The C.A.G.E. lived long enough for a single attack, but that attack killed 5 War Dancers and put 2 wounds on the Dancing Master (and failed to hurt the Shield Breaker). Suppression kicked in and actually caused 2 of the kills. Zaalaks were responsible for 1 kill each.

Pain fueled Workers are very frightening, they rampaged and killed Gregoria Don Sissora in a single volley (though it was a volley of 4 angry Union Workers). The workers also managed to eliminate both Shield breakers.

Basically we found that the War Dancers are a hard counter to the Teknes if the Teknes do not bring an Ironward. Being able to avoid reactions is very brutal to the Teknes. Having the Wardancers leaping across Zaalaks and the C.A.G.E. and the defenders with no chance of Unleashed, Counter Attack or Galvanic Backlash triggering is frustrating. Probably should have brought the defenders instead and sniped the dancers.

Rank 1 Specialists, while nifty, do not last long against Rank 1 infantry. The Zaalaks got 1 kill each, one shield breaker wounded a C.A.G.E. and took down 1 worker, the other failed to get a kill. Against units without 2 dice of attack, they would have fared much better.

Herald of Blood’s inspiration is fantastic, it allowed the War Dancers to position their targets to get the best use out of their Deadly Flourish. The Herald’s Training seemed, and really had no impact on the game. Either the troops started outside the Aura, or if they started inside, the model with the aura was generally the one being attacked. There was only one instance where this had an impact.

Question on timing of events: If a Dancing Master activates with some wardancers can the Dance Master use Come Hither to draw an opponent forward and then have the War Dancers use their Deadly Flourish? If so, this becomes a fantastic way to draw out leaders and specialists for a quick kill.

We also found that no matter how easy a War Dancer is to kill, you cannot kill them all, and their Deadly Flourish becomes incredibly deadly. When you get stuck into the battle, there just is no way to avoid Deadly Flourish hitting, and with the Herald of Bloods inspire, the Dancers will easily get to hit 2-3 enemy models each flourish. One activation of Dancer’s killed 5 workers and 4 Defenders. (Granted there were 7 Dancers in that activation, but each model was being hit by a 4 dice attack.)

Question on Gregorio: His Winged Cleaver attack says that it targets every enemy model in 2”. So, if there were 3 targets, would you roll once and apply the result to each target, or would you roll 3 attacks, one per target?

We discussed methods to mitigate the War Dancers Flourish (which BTW, the Dance Masters final attack killed 1 Unharmed worker, 1 Pain Fueled Worker and the Union boss, getting 3, 3 die attacks is brutal). So, while the ability is called leap, it is more of a pass through, so if you had your troops with their back to a wall (impassable terrain), or even rough 2 terrain, then the Dancers could not flourish since they would not have enough movement to get beyond the unit they want to attack. Terrain of any type is helpful (though the Herald of Blood’s inspiration will help to mitigate this impact).

Question on Offensive Expertise: If 3 pain fueled Workers attack a single model, and all are in base contact with another worker, and they were inspired by the Union boss, would they roll 6 dice, and get 3 re-rolls? This is what we assumed.

How do you work out the War Dancers attacks? Basically is you have 3 War Dancers flourishing 5 Defender Linemen, do you move each War Dancer their 4 inches and see how many attacks would hit each Defender and then roll them? For example, if 2 different War Dancers cross the same defender do you move them all and then make a 4 die attack on the defender? (This was the way that we played it). Does the War Dancers get to choose the order to resolve the attacks? For most instances this won’t matter, but for some it definitely has an impact; such as:

If the Teknes had the Ironward, and we had the same situation, how do we work this out. I assume the the Dancers would choose their first target, if it dies, then the Teknes would get a free strike on the Dancer of their choice (assuming they meet the Ironwards training criteria). If they eliminate that Dancer, then you would remove any further attacks that she would have made, reducing the # of dice added if she and another Dancer were “leaping” over the same model. Then this would be repeated on a model for model basis until all models had attacked. If it works out some other way, could you please explain how this interaction works.

BTW, if anyone is interested, game ended with Goritsi having 2 Moral and Teknes with 0.

 

[Xavarir]

First of all, thanks so much for the gameplay report Swan! I've been looking for more of these, particularly ones including Teknes or Goritsi, and you have BOTH!

In regards to your questions:

Question on timing of events: If a Dancing Master activates with some wardancers can the Dance Master use Come Hither to draw an opponent forward and then have the War Dancers use their Deadly Flourish?

Yes, the Dance Master can use Come Hither to draw opponents into the Deadly Flourish of the dancers. WoK uses the "everyone moves, then everyone takes an action" (or vice verse) system does it not? So the Dance Master uses Come Hither, then each of the dancers get to take their action one by one, Deadly Flourish in this case. Here's the text from the rulebook:

After selecting all the models that will activate, the active player chooses which stage to perform first, maneuver or
act. All models in a combined activation resolve each stage
together. So, if you choose maneuver first, all combining
models will maneuver, and once finished they will then
all act.

Question on Gregorio: His Winged Cleaver attack says that it targets every enemy model in 2”. So, if there were 3 targets, would you roll once and apply the result to each target, or would you roll 3 attacks, one per target?

I would assume the one roll applies to each valid target. Roll once, apply the results to all 3 targets. This is usually for simplicity. I always have an "inner conflict" with myself when it comes to area of effect abilities in games. If you take a giant sword and spin in a circle hitting 3 different people, it's unlikely that each of them will take the same amount of damage (loss of weight/momentum, time to brace, etc). In that scenario, it makes sense that you would roll separately for each target. I wouldn't be surprised either way to be honest.

Question on Offensive Expertise: If 3 pain fueled Workers attack a single model, and all are in base contact with another worker, and they were inspired by the Union boss, would they roll 6 dice, and get 3 re-rolls?

Yep, each Union Worker rolls two dice (6 total), and each one gets a re-roll (3 total).

How do you work out the War Dancers attacks? Basically is you have 3 War Dancers flourishing 5 Defender Linemen, do you move each War Dancer their 4 inches and see how many attacks would hit each Defender and then roll them? For example, if 2 different War Dancers cross the same defender do you move them all and then make a 4 die attack on the defender? (This was the way that we played it). Does the War Dancers get to choose the order to resolve the attacks? For most instances this won’t matter, but for some it definitely has an impact; such as:

If the Teknes had the Ironward, and we had the same situation, how do we work this out. I assume the the Dancers would choose their first target, if it dies, then the Teknes would get a free strike on the Dancer of their choice (assuming they meet the Ironwards training criteria). If they eliminate that Dancer, then you would remove any further attacks that she would have made, reducing the # of dice added if she and another Dancer were “leaping” over the same model. Then this would be repeated on a model for model basis until all models had attacked. If it works out some other way, could you please explain how this interaction works.

Check out the text from the rulebook I posted above. You move the War Dancer their 4" for the flourish then resolve the damage on those targets. If a target dies here, and Teknes has the Ironward, they make their counter right now. Then move on to the next dancer.


I haven't had the time to play with them myself, but I believe most troops can "defend" against the war dancers by using proper spacing a positioning. The dancers must be able to land on the other side of the leap without overlapping any bases. If troops are bundled together it may be difficult to pull off multiple flourishes. Come Hither not included! Overall I am very happy with the changes made to both Teknes and Goritsi. If anyone else has some game play experiences with either of these two factions PLEASE post them for all to read!

EDIT: You mentioned that the saving grace for Teknes were the specialists, but from reading your battle details, they seemed to be kind of underwhelming (minus maybe the big hit from C.A.G.E, which I would expect from a R2 monster). Did I miss something?

 

[duke_bonez]

Awesome! I second the timing questions.

As I understand it, in the case of multiple Deadly Flourishes: all of the War Dancers would make the movement portion of this ability before any attacks are rolled, each one will assign 2 dice to whichever enemy model they passed through. Once all the dice are assigned each attack is rolled separately (e.g. if two Dancers passed through 1 Union Worker, you would roll 4 dice against that Union Worker).

As I understand it, in the case of Ironward: all of the War Dancers would finish their attacks first before the Ironward's ability could kick in since for a combined activation all the activated models should be acting at the "same" time.

----

Union Boss's Inspire & Offensive Expertise: I'm not sure actually. If three models with Offensive Expertise(1) attack the same target, their attacks get combined and only the highest value Offensive Expertise is used (1) and the attacker only gets to re-roll 1 die in that attack. However, since the Union Boss's Inspire specifically states that they gain Offensive Expertise(+1) it could be taken to mean that it is cumulative. Not sure.

 

[TrexPushups]

I would agree about the positioning factor a distance of just 20mm from each mini prevents a model from jumping over both.


This ceases to matter though once the herald of bloods inspire ability lets your opponent completely clump up your army before they jump over you.


That is the real terror. I don't know what to do vs it other hope I can nuke her before too much damage happens.

 

[Swan]

Trex has the gist of it. It was truly the Herald's inspire that caused the most damage, since they got to position the Teknes in the best possible position to make their assault. Had it not been for that, the Teknes was positioned to stop the War Dancers from getting a multiple attack on anyone but the two on one end (since the other side was anchored by a wall). Pushing the Teknes into a nice tight group before the flourish basically eliminated the squad.

Duke - I think you are misreading the Group activation rule. Your entire group either chooses to take an action first, or to move first. You cannot have some maneuver while others take an action.

 

[Swan]

EDIT: You mentioned that the saving grace for Teknes were the specialists, but from reading your battle details, they seemed to be kind of underwhelming (minus maybe the big hit from C.A.G.E, which I would expect from a R2 monster). Did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss anything, it was the fact that they eliminated 7 models before the Goritsi had a chance for a return strike (though to be honest, the fact that the Dance Masters come hither only pulled the C.A.G.E. 3" forward). Starting out with only 2/3rds of his infantry put a dent the Goritsi plan. Had the specialists not accomplished this, then life would have been real interesting. Still think that the Zaalak's unleash ability should have triggered when he got killed. Stupid Flourish

 

[duke_bonez]

Swan: Oops - you are absolutely right. It's been a while since I read it. So, with that in mind as written I don't think the Dancing Master could pull a leader out using Come Hither for it to immediately be attacked by the War Dancers. Not until the next Activation would be my guess.

 

[Xavarir]

Swan: Oops - you are absolutely right. It's been a while since I read it. So, with that in mind as written I don't think the Dancing Master could pull a leader out using Come Hither for it to immediately be attacked by the War Dancers. Not until the next Activation would be my guess.

It depends. The Dance Master can use Come Hither to pull a target, but then the War Dancers can ONLY use Deadly Flourish. This is because every unit in the activation must take the same action (maneuver or act), act in this case, at the same time.

The Dance Master can not pull with Come Hither then have the War Dancers move and use Deadly Flourish.

 

[Xavarir]

No, you didn't miss anything, it was the fact that they eliminated 7 models before the Goritsi had a chance for a return strike (though to be honest, the fact that the Dance Masters come hither only pulled the C.A.G.E. 3" forward). Starting out with only 2/3rds of his infantry put a dent the Goritsi plan. Had the specialists not accomplished this, then life would have been real interesting. Still think that the Zaalak's unleash ability should have triggered when he got killed. Stupid Flourish

So we know what kind of shenanigans/damage you can do with the War Dancers. What about the Union Workers/Linesmen? Any information on how those played out?

 

[Swan]

So we know what kind of shenanigans/damage you can do with the War Dancers. What about the Union Workers/Linesmen? Any information on how those played out?

Linemen did not get a fair shake, since they were butchered by bouncing babes, and never got to use their Counter Attack. Like I say, the War Dancers are a hard counter to the Teknes, they just lose their main advantage, and that is to hit back when they get hit. Add to that the fact that their Follow Through gave no benefit against the War Dancers, and the Linemen did not really get a fair test run. We are setting up a Teknes vs Skorza match, that will give us a better feel for the linemen (though it will be iffy getting hit with 2 dice each attack).

Union workers re unique. Since they can only wound themselves when they activate with the Union Boss, it limits how many can fuel up a turn. Their Unstoppable really never came into play since they were always hitting with two dice and a re-roll anyways. Again, against the Skorza this will definitely come in handy. The Extra inch of move for Pain Fueled made the difference between the workers eliminating a model. The Union workers made short work of both Shield Breakers and Gregorio Don Sissora. Nothing fancy, just straight up stacking a handful of dice and watching those specialists disappear in a single attack. As a unit they are just your standard wall of beef, unfortunately they were stuck in the meat grinder of deadly flourish. I like the unit, and they killed their worth in enemy units (4 ranks of specialists, and a couple of War Dancers). As a base unit, they are solid, and I do not feel like they are under powered, but I don't think that there are many units out there that will stand up well to the current Goritsi units.

 

[Xavarir]

Linemen did not get a fair shake, since they were butchered by bouncing babes, and never got to use their Counter Attack. Like I say, the War Dancers are a hard counter to the Teknes, they just lose their main advantage, and that is to hit back when they get hit. Add to that the fact that their Follow Through gave no benefit against the War Dancers, and the Linemen did not really get a fair test run. We are setting up a Teknes vs Skorza match, that will give us a better feel for the linemen (though it will be iffy getting hit with 2 dice each attack).

Union workers re unique. Since they can only wound themselves when they activate with the Union Boss, it limits how many can fuel up a turn. Their Unstoppable really never came into play since they were always hitting with two dice and a re-roll anyways. Again, against the Skorza this will definitely come in handy. The Extra inch of move for Pain Fueled made the difference between the workers eliminating a model. The Union workers made short work of both Shield Breakers and Gregorio Don Sissora. Nothing fancy, just straight up stacking a handful of dice and watching those specialists disappear in a single attack. As a unit they are just your standard wall of beef, unfortunately they were stuck in the meat grinder of deadly flourish. I like the unit, and they killed their worth in enemy units (4 ranks of specialists, and a couple of War Dancers). As a base unit, they are solid, and I do not feel like they are under powered, but I don't think that there are many units out there that will stand up well to the current Goritsi units.

The more I think about it, the more confused I am as to how the War Dancers were so easily able to chew through an entire army. I think that with decent positioning the Teknes lines should have been able to hold against the assault of War Dancers. In order to use Deadly Flourish they need to be unengaged and must move 4" in a straight line. For the sake of being stubborn, say the War Dancer starts 1mm from a Union Worker and every other Union Worker nearby is 29mm from the first. The first inch is clearing the Union Worker (30mm). She can't land in between because her base won't fit (29mm). She has to clear the second worker (30mm), and JUST has enough to land on the other side (30mm) in contact with the second Union Worker. If any other unit, or impassable terrain, is nearby (at 29mm of course!) she can't land. So if a Teknes army is grouped up with everyone 29mm apart what are the War Dancers to do? And I think it's safe to say that any War Dancers that did manage to get kills in would surely be dead next activation. It is likely to that these War Dancers are now VERY far away from a leader if they were abusing their 9" threat range.

In addition, the Linesmen have only a 30% (40% with the Dance Master's inspire?) chance to be hit by the Deadly Flourish. The Union Workers have a 50% (60% with the Dance Master's inspire?) chance and are required to be hit twice. It is likely that you would have to spend more than one War Dancer to kill a single unit (with proper Teknes positioning). You mentioned that in one activation 7 War Dancer's killed 9 Teknes troops. I would certainly expect a number of causalities from a huge 7 unit activation but surely these 7 War Dancers are now miles away from a leader and are sitting ducks.

It's a shame that the Zaalaks reaction is countered by the Deadly Flourish but it's Abomination aura does wonders in stifling combined activations. Even so, it would take a minimum of 2 Deadly Flourishes to kill which would likely endanger both War Dancers.

In the end I'm a little concerned that multiple people are having similar experiences with the War Dancers. It seems that they may be a bit overwhelming? It also troubles me that an entire faction can essentially be "countered" (realistically they are just at a huge disadvantage) to a single infantry group of another faction. A lot of Teknes have the reaction abilities which are completely nullified with the Deadly Flourish. If I am playing Teknes and am about to play vs a Goritsi team, how do I plan for stacking War Dancers? Likely it is some combination of Galvanic Defenders to snipe War Dancers and The Ironward to slaughter them when they land after killing a friendly unit.

I look forward to reading your next battle log! These are the two factions I have ordered for myself and I love seeing others experiences with them! Thanks again Swan!

 

[Swan]

The more I think about it, the more confused I am as to how the War Dancers were so easily able to chew through an entire army. I think that with decent positioning the Teknes lines should have been able to hold against the assault of War Dancers. In order to use Deadly Flourish they need to be unengaged and must move 4" in a straight line. For the sake of being stubborn, say the War Dancer starts 1mm from a Union Worker and every other Union Worker nearby is 29mm from the first. The first inch is clearing the Union Worker (30mm). She can't land in between because her base won't fit (29mm). She has to clear the second worker (30mm), and JUST has enough to land on the other side (30mm) in contact with the second Union Worker. If any other unit, or impassable terrain, is nearby (at 29mm of course!) she can't land. So if a Teknes army is grouped up with everyone 29mm apart what are the War Dancers to do? And I think it's safe to say that any War Dancers that did manage to get kills in would surely be dead next activation. It is likely to that these War Dancers are now VERY far away from a leader if they were abusing their 9" threat range.

You need to take into account the Herald of Blood. So you set up in the manner you state, then the War Dancers bounce forward and shift each of your guys 2" in any direction they want. Basically they pull you forward and bunch you up and then bounce over you with each dancer hitting 2-3 guys each. This means that each model in the target unit is getting hit with a 4-6 die attack

In addition, the Linesmen have only a 30% (40% with the Dance Master's inspire?) chance to be hit by the Deadly Flourish. The Union Workers have a 50% (60% with the Dance Master's inspire?) chance and are required to be hit twice. It is likely that you would have to spend more than one War Dancer to kill a single unit (with proper Teknes positioning). You mentioned that in one activation 7 War Dancer's killed 9 Teknes troops. I would certainly expect a number of causalities from a huge 7 unit activation but surely these 7 War Dancers are now miles away from a leader and are sitting ducks.

You forget that War Dancers have 2 attack dice, which means that they have a 51% chance kill a Lineman. If that Lineman is hit with 2 Deadly flourishes then there is a 76% chance that the lineman dies. And while the War Dancers are now away from the Leader, that leader can still move forward to be in command range for the next turn. Add to this the fact that by this time the Zaalaks and C.A.G.E. were already eliminated, and 9 infantry was half of the infantry force gone in a single attack. So basically after that attack he held the right flank with a Single living lineman and the Union Boss Commander, and I had the left flank with a couple of Union Workers and the other Union Boss. In reality the game came down to the final initiative. We both started turn 4 with 2 Moral each, he won the initiative and used the Dance Master to eliminate 2 workers and the Union Boss (which were tight information from lining up for the attack that eliminated everything else on that flank but the Dance Master). Had Teknes won the initiative the Dance master would have died, putting the Goritsi 1 Moral from losing, and not enough Teknes nearby to cause 2 moral loss, so we would have either tied or Teknes would have won with 1 moral. (BTW, it did not help that the Goritsi won the initiative roll every turn).

It's a shame that the Zaalaks reaction is countered by the Deadly Flourish but it's Abomination aura does wonders in stifling combined activations. Even so, it would take a minimum of 2 Deadly Flourishes to kill which would likely endanger both War Dancers.

The Abomination ability is nice, but it only reduces the command ability by 2, meaning that the Commander can still activate 5 at a time, while the other leaders still activate 3. As for the Deadly flourish, why would it take 2 flourishes to kill a Zaalak. A single 2 die flourish has a 55% chance to kill a Zaalak, why would you think that it takes a minimum of 2 Attacks? And since Deadly Flourish negates the Zaalaks ability to react, there really is no risk to the War Dancers.

In the end I'm a little concerned that multiple people are having similar experiences with the War Dancers. It seems that they may be a bit overwhelming? It also troubles me that an entire faction can essentially be "countered" (realistically they are just at a huge disadvantage) to a single infantry group of another faction. A lot of Teknes have the reaction abilities which are completely nullified with the Deadly Flourish. If I am playing Teknes and am about to play vs a Goritsi team, how do I plan for stacking War Dancers? Likely it is some combination of Galvanic Defenders to snipe War Dancers and The Ironward to slaughter them when they land after killing a friendly unit.

I look forward to reading your next battle log! These are the two factions I have ordered for myself and I love seeing others experiences with them! Thanks again Swan!

Well we are still in testing phase, and the Devs are taking player input on units. As for how to counter Goritsi, Ironward is probably the best answer the Teknes have. Being able to get a reaction (that is not considered a reaction) that has a decent chance to eliminate a dancer for every model killed at least balances the combat. And depending how timing goes, the ability to eliminate a dancer that hasn't taken its attacks yet helps insure that the Teknes will likely have troops that survive the attack. The other important thing to aid, is moving in terrain that impacts the Flourish, or prevents it
from going off, by placing their back against a wall.

We really need to test it out again using the Ironward

 

[feketelovag]

It depends. The Dance Master can use Come Hither to pull a target, but then the War Dancers can ONLY use Deadly Flourish. This is because every unit in the activation must take the same action (maneuver or act), act in this case, at the same time.

The Dance Master can not pull with Come Hither then have the War Dancers move and use Deadly Flourish.

I dont think that this is how its done since all models must "resolve each stage together", which you quoted in your first post. To me that means that each dancer has to declare where it is flourishing to before any dice are rolled. Then once that is declared, all dice are assigned and then rolled together. At least thats my understanding of the rules.

The C.A.G.E. lived long enough for a single attack, but that attack killed 5 War Dancers and put 2 wounds on the Dancing Master (and failed to hurt the Shield Breaker).

With what attack did it kill so much with? I dont really see anything on its card that could allow it to kill so many things in a single attack.

 

[Xavarir]

You forget that War Dancers have 2 attack dice, which means that they have a 51% chance kill a Lineman.

When the War Dancers use Deadly Flourish, are they essentially using Caressing Blades on every unit they pass over? From reading the ability, I assumed "1 attack" meant 1 die. So each Deadly Flourish would assign 1 die to each target affected. If they do indeed get the 2 dice for each target, then that changes things drastically. I figured they were giving up their second dice for a single die attack that hits multiple targets. This is also why I mentioned it would take 2 Deadly Flourishes to kill a Zaalak.

I dont think that this is how its done since all models must "resolve each stage together", which you quoted in your first post. To me that means that each dancer has to declare where it is flourishing to before any dice are rolled. Then once that is declared, all dice are assigned and then rolled together. At least thats my understanding of the rules.

I think "all models must resolve each stage together" means that if you choose to move first, then ALL activated models must move before any actions are taken. So you activate 5 War Dancers, they all move into position to use Deadly Flourish. Now their maneuver "stage" is done. Next they begin to use the Deadly Flourishes one by one resolving each one when it happens. I watched the recent gameplay video of Nasir vs Shael and that is how they are doing it. They activate, move all units activated, then each unit attacks (or uses another ability) one at a time. They resolve the damage for each attack when it happens. This allows for any reaction abilities to trigger as well.

 

[feketelovag]

You could be right, but Im not sure since they didnt really do a lot of combined activations where the resolving of one attack effected another attack like the one that came up here. Also, while they did break things down to resolve things per model like when doing the ping-pong effects of the shield bash there wasnt really any time where the bashing of a model effected another Pelgarath bash attack. So, that could just be done due to simplicities sake so you dont need to keep track of what each model is doing en-mass.

So Im still kinda leaning towards the side that if you cant do something at the beginning of your attack you shouldnt be able to do it at a later point just because one of your other models did an effect to effect this. Since all these actions should be happening at the same time, as in simultaneously. Though I could just be reading too much into it .

 

[Xavarir]

I'll have to watch the newest game play video again but I thought that the Nasir player mentioned using multiple shield bashes to "ping pong" units around. If one Pelegarth Shield Bashes a Dragon Legionnaire 2" into contact with another Pelegarth, can't that second Pelegarth then Shield Bash it another 2" even though it wasn't engaged with it to begin with? I'm sure this is how it must work. This will also have effects on LoS throughout a game. If one unit kills another, it could open LoS to units behind the slain one. This allows for diverse strategy and advanced tactics.

 

[Swan]

With what attack did it kill so much with? I dont really see anything on its card that could allow it to kill so many things in a single attack.

I used the Galvanic Backlash attack, which hits all models within 2" of the C.A.G.E. I rolled for each model separately, and since I had a 60% chance to kill each War Dancer, I actually rolled pretty good, missing only the Shield Breaker.

 

[Swan]

I think "all models must resolve each stage together" means that if you choose to move first, then ALL activated models must move before any actions are taken. So you activate 5 War Dancers, they all move into position to use Deadly Flourish. Now their maneuver "stage" is done. Next they begin to use the Deadly Flourishes one by one resolving each one when it happens. I watched the recent gameplay video of Nasir vs Shael and that is how they are doing it. They activate, move all units activated, then each unit attacks (or uses another ability) one at a time. They resolve the damage for each attack when it happens. This allows for any reaction abilities to trigger as well.

I don't think that it works that way. Basically I think that attacks are grouped by target, so you see how many attacks will hit the target, sum up the dice, and then roll all of the dice for that attack. In the Video, they actually did this, using different colored dice to designate each target rather then rolling each attack separately.

As for the Deadly Flourish, the card reads "Make 1 attack on every enemy model" since the only attack the Dancer has is Caressing Blades, they get to make a 2 Die attack on each model. Had the card read "Make a Melee(1) attack on every enemy model" then they would only get a single die attack.

Which, I actually think is a nice solution to the Deadly Flourish, giving the Dancers multiple 1 Die attacks, or a single 2 die attack. This could be a nice way to balance out that ability.

 

[Swan]

So Im still kinda leaning towards the side that if you cant do something at the beginning of your attack you shouldnt be able to do it at a later point just because one of your other models did an effect to effect this. Since all these actions should be happening at the same time, as in simultaneously. Though I could just be reading too much into it .

Looking at the video, order did make a difference, like having one Pelegarth shield bash first to eliminate the model behind the Wrath, then having the other two models attack the Wrath killing it. Had it been done the other way around there would have been no Wrath to Bash. In this situation I think that it is fine for the Dance Master to activate with 4 Dancers, they all move forward and then the Master declares Come Hither while the Dancers declare flourish. (Flourish does not actually have to have a target to be used, and it is a way that the Dancers can actually move 4 inches after a move, leaping over friendly units, which gives it a better sprint. It is a nifty little movement trick they have.) You use the Come Hither first and if the target gets pulled close enough for the Dancers to Slice and Dice with their flourish, fantastic, if not, well they still get that 4" move.

 

[Xavarir]

I don't think that it works that way. Basically I think that attacks are grouped by target, so you see how many attacks will hit the target, sum up the dice, and then roll all of the dice for that attack. In the Video, they actually did this, using different colored dice to designate each target rather then rolling each attack separately.

This seems to be right in the middle of the two scenarios. It makes sense to resolve all attacks by target. My discussion was more about the timing of reaction abilities during the resolve phase which hardly applies to War Dancers anyways.

It's going to get confusing trying to keep track of 18 War Dancers jumping around and which ones are hitting what enemy units.