Watchmen - Still the best comic ever?

[lono]

I should have posted this on Watchmen\'s 20th aniversery a few months back really, but having just re-read it for the too-many-to-remembereth time it\'s on my mind now.

It is still bloody awesome for me. Everytime I go at it I find something new to appreciate. This time it was how Gibbons has framed a lot of the panels to look like film stills, with things like like limbs filling the foreground blocking views to the action behind, and just how much more exciting that makes the scenes in them.

Watchmaker is still my favourite origins story for a super-hero, the balance of Fearfull Symmetry still hurts my head too much, and the first 6 pages of A Stronger Loving World tear me up more than anything else I\'ve ever seen in a book, be it a comic or a novel.

But is it still the best? I guess I\'d say yes, but Grant Morrison\'s The Filth is up there with it because of its layers of complexity and utterly bizzare raft of perverted genius ideas.

So do the other comic fans out there still rate Watchmen 20 years on? Anything better come along since? Anyone think it never was the best because they loved Dark Knight Returns, or something else more?

Most importantly, anyone who is into reading, even if you don\'t really see the appeal of comics, who hasn\'t ever read it, you should go and get Watchmen or add it to your Christmas list and see just how mature, adult and entertaining a comic can be.

Kay, overexuberance mode off!

 

[frenchkid]

Well I\'v never read it, but I\'ll give it a look next time I\'m in a library

 

[SJB]

Hmmm.... I certainly think Watchmen is superior to Dark Knight Returns (though they are both great). Most notably because it just doesn\'t seem to have aged. Twenty years later it still feels contemporary whereas I feel Dark Knight feels very 80s.

But my favourite comic ever is Kingdom Come. Just love the story which just builds and builds to a peak (a single bolt of lightning even) and the final part just feels note perfect. And the art. Oh, the art. I\'m a big fan of Alex Ross and this, I feel, is his greatest work. His technique is more refined than his breakout work in Marvels and he hasn\'t done anything quite this big since. For me, Alex just makes Superheroes...real.

Steve B

 

[supervike]

I agree about the Watchmen...my wife got me the great Hardcover version last year for Christmas, and its just a phenomenally well done piece of work.

Best comic ever? Possibly. Yeah. Probably.

Dark Knight Returns is pretty fantastic too....but that was more visceral, where as Watchman built upon itself in very subtle ways. Plus the way the different lyrics were integrated into some of the chapters almost made me think the songs were written for that.

There were just so many moments where I can remember reading that comic and you just have to put it down for a second and say \'wow\'.

 

[Sand Rat]

One of the top ones, yes.

Although I prefer Legion of Extraordinary Gentlemen as my top, then Watchmen, then Dark Knight and Kingdom Come together.

 

[MarkusTay]

That was \'League\' of extraordinary gentleman. A very, very good comic. I had unfortunately seen the movie first, which I loved, so I prefer it to the comic. All my friends who read the comic first like it better, so I guess first impressions are always the best.

Read Dark Knight and I liked it, but I was never a huge Batman fan so it didn\'t grab me, not like the old McFarlane Spiderman stories. He made a whimsical character into something dark and creepy; I\'ll never look at Spiderman the same way after he drew/wrote it.

Haven\'t read Kingdom Come, gonna have to do that real soon, and I never even heard of \'Watchmen\'.

 

[Evil Dave]

If you can find an original of \"The Crow\" by James O\'barr, that is a book worth reading.
The movie was crap.
The book was a trip through insanity and rage.
The series was originally written by O\'Barr as a means of getting over his girlfriend\'s death at the hands of a drunk driver.

 

[Sand Rat]

Originally posted by MarkusTay
That was \'League\' of extraordinary gentleman. A very, very good comic. I had unfortunately seen the movie first, which I loved, so I prefer it to the comic. All my friends who read the comic first like it better, so I guess first impressions are always the best.

And you\'d think I\'d have looked at the two collected copies I have on my desk before posting. Oh well, I blame (shakes Magic 8 Ball) - the media.


lol

 

[Hinton]

Watchmen is probably one of the best comics out there, IMO.

I used to work in a comic store and stumbled across the series sitting in a box in the backroom. The owner refused to put them out for sale because he liked them so much, even though people asked about it from time to time.

Other than Watchmen, Angry Christ Comix, and Cry For Dawn, I didn\'t really read any comics. Seriously.

Never mind all the boxes in my closet and garage.

These are not the boxes you are looking for. Move along now.

 

[JoergMCF]

Liberty from Frank Miller, the Last American and the John Diffool comics are pretty good stories too, but the Watchmen story is the most complex one.

Enki Bilal has made some good stuff too.

Best regards

JoergMCF

 

[freakinacage]

i am a right comic newbie and watchmen makes my head hurt. i dont get the whole point of the comic about the sailor guy. i never was good at looking at subplots and subtexts

 

[petey]

I like Maus by Art Spiegelmann, Cages by Dave McKean and Watchmen as well.
I found these 3 on this website
I was interested in finding some graphic novels so I bought what he thought were 3 of the best. They\'re all damn good.
Sandman by Neil Gaiman is quite interesting aswell

I also like the Aliens and Aliens v Predator graphic novels as I really like the 2 universes.

 

[lono]

Well the pirate comic does two things I think.

The more obvious one is that it adds richness to the world, showing that in a place where there are real superheroes it is pirates that are the big success in comics. It\'s yet another nice little layer.

SPOILER
Once I\'d gone through Watchmen again though I realised the subtext (or at least I think I did). The sailor is basically Adrien Viedt (Ozymandeus) and is representative of everything going on with him and how by the end he has commited mass genocide.
SPOILER OVER

I\'ve never read Kingdom Come. Alex Ross\' style doesn\'t actually do a lot for me, even though I greatly admire his skill as a renderer of beautiful pictures. I\'ll check it out next time I hit my local comic store though as a few people have mentioned it.

Freakinacage - If you want a comic that is pure enjoyment with not a whiff of subplot try Scott Pilgrim. I\'ve only just discovered it and it\'s brilliant. A manga/western comic hybrid, funny, relevant, cool.

Here\'s the website. You can check out lots of sample pages there.

Petey - I used to really enjoy the AvP stuff. Stole a load off my cousin recently which was nice. Maus, despite all the plaudits it has left me completely cold though. Just never felt any kind of emotion reading it.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by lono
So do the other comic fans out there still rate Watchmen 20 years on?

I\'m not a huge reader of comic books, although I\'m a longtime fan of the genre, but anyway, as far as Watchmen goes it still holds up IMO... but then I might be biased having bought mint editions as an investment* and the mass-market version to read.

From what little I have read Hard Boiled strikes me as probably the best, but I probably mean my favourite more than best; I\'m a huge fan of style and technical prowess in the art over content (q.v. Samurai Jack - good storylines but it leaves me cold). Other work that could be roughly classed as a comic that comes to mind is a few pieces of Moebius\'s stuff, as well as a few other European artists working in a little more adult a vein.

*A bad one!

Einion

 

[No Such Agency]

Who can really say what the \"Best ____ Ever\" is? Tastes vary so much some people might think Maus\'s human-level treatment of a nearly unfathomable horror is the height of comic book genius, others might think something like \"Blankets\" or \"Transmetropolitan\" or \"Love & Rockets\" is the pinnacle of the form. I doubt any are right or wrong however. We just like what we like.

The bullshit answer aside, I think my favorites are probably \"The Dark Knight Returns\" for its treatment of Batman\'s psychological damage, \"V for Vendetta\" (which I only read recently) for it\'s weirdly prophetic moments and the great song in the middle, and maybe \"Maus\". I haven\'t really read that many comics though. It\'s too expensive to keep up

EDIT: ...and \"Ghost World\". Love that book.

 

[hakoMike]

I read a lot of \"alternative\" comics in the late 80\'s, and I stayed away from anything remotely superhero-ish. I still had the notion then that popularity implied lack of depth.

The big ones for me were (of course) Maus, American Splendor (still haven\'t seen the movie), Daniel Clowes (Lloyd Llewellyn, Eight Ball), some Japanese stuff when if was still highly unpopular.

 

[supervike]

If we are talking about alternative comics, I\'d recommend BONE and my new favorite THE GOON.

 

[the alleycat]

Frank miller just makes great comics. Dark Knight Returns was the first ever comic to hit me on a visceral level. Watchmen was something someone recommended later in life as a \'must read\' and, though good, wasn\'t a new concept to me any more so it lost what, i imagine, was it\'s original impact.

The Sandman Comics were awesome and Kindom Come breathtaking.

Got to say i loved the original \'Impulse\' stuff with Humberto Ramos as it was brilliantly funny. And Warren Ellis though prolific has written some of my favorate things such as Transmetropolitan. [Also, his version of The Ultimates has one of my favorate lines ever! \"Hulk hate Freddie Prinze Jr!\"

 

[lono]

Yeah, Ghost World is quality. My dad bought that, Black Hole by Charles Burns and the Acme Novelty Library by Chris Ware (Rusty Brown is the best!) for me last Christmas. I was in awe of his fine taste. I need to get more of Clowes\' stuff. I guess I\'ll check the ones that hakoMike recommends.

The Alleycat - I love that line too, but I think it is \'Hulk smash Freddie Pinze Jr\'. You don\'t work for GW do you? I\'m thinking perhaps I could know you and we could have discussed it before! And if we are getting pedantic wasn\'t it Mark Millar who did the Ultimates?

And yeah NSA, the real point of my post wasn\'t exactly to decide the best ever comic, more just to try and get a bit of a comic book chat going, but I think you guessed that. And you\'re right, comics are a serious financial drain. I\'d download them, but it\'s just not the same as having them in my hands.

 

[the alleycat]

Originally posted by lono
Yeah, Ghost World is quality. My dad bought that, Black Hole by Charles Burns and the Acme Novelty Library by Chris Ware (Rusty Brown is the best!) for me last Christmas. I was in awe of his fine taste. I need to get more of Clowes\' stuff. I guess I\'ll check the ones that hakoMike recommends.

The Alleycat - I love that line too, but I think it is \'Hulk smash Freddie Pinze Jr\'. You don\'t work for GW do you? I\'m thinking perhaps I could know you and we could have discussed it before! And if we are getting pedantic wasn\'t it Mark Millar who did the Ultimates?

And yeah NSA, the real point of my post wasn\'t exactly to decide the best ever comic, more just to try and get a bit of a comic book chat going, but I think you guessed that. And you\'re right, comics are a serious financial drain. I\'d download them, but it\'s just not the same as having them in my hands.

*Goes to dig out his ultimates book*

Haven\'t read it in a while, could very well be that you\'re right.

And yeah, i worked for GW a bunch of times over the years but most recently at HQ in Nottingham, so it\'s possible you know me

Edit - Plus, your name comes from another great comic