Warmachine... an objective view.

[hajmoid]

Hi there guys,

Over the years i have dabbled with mini's from a variety of producers, I have a few Privateer press mini's from their iron kingdom range (I found their iron kingdom character minis to be of a higher standard than the regular warmachine characters at the time. 5 years ago) and have been wondering of late if warmachine is any good.

I'm not looking for any comparisons to GW or any other miniature/game producer for that matter either as I think I can make those myself, i'm just looking for your view on whats great/crap about warmachine mini's and the game system itself. From what I have gathered so far its a semi sci-fi fantasy semi skirmish game. By Semi-Skirmish i'm talking larger scale games than infinity or necromunda but smaller than a typical game of 40k. thats about as far as my knowledge goes.

As far as any research on the models are concerned, all I know so far is their range is predominately metal, they have been delving into a semiplastic resin or something in the last 2 or so years. Had a good perve n their minis on their website and would have to say my fave models from their range are their warcasters. Also those warjacks dont float my boat, but thats just personal spin lol.

Hoping to tap into the collective knowledge bank here guys so go wild.

 

[Countersunk81]

Warmachine/Hordes is great IMO as you can have fun with smaller or larger scale games (though the nature of it makes really big games a bit more long winded that we have found). Really nice and adaptable / themeable too as each faction has tons of units to try.

Minis are largely really nice, and good quality (and excellent customer service if you have a problem).

While you can play without without the warjacks, you will be limiting yourself and will find that you'll need them in most of cases.

That's my take on it, hope that helps!

 

[me_in_japan]

I'm a long-time (20yrs) 40k player who just started warmachine a year or so ago.

Thoughts:

1) Warmachine is a very well designed game. Although I'm fairly new to it, I have never been befuddled by the rules, and I've never come across any situation where the rulebook didnt make it 100% crystal clear what was and wasnt ok to do in game. Other game systems (I name no names) can be a bit ambiguous/downright self-contradictory at times.

2) The minis vary in quality and style. You can see on their site that the minis have somewhat different style across the range. I've noticed it particularly on their Cryx models, for example the Satyxis raiders are far bulkier than the Witch Coven of Gharlghast, despite both minis representing standard human sized females.

3) As countersunk says, you can play without the warjacks, but theyre pretty iconic for the game, and personally I feel it's not the same without them. You can play with only warjacks (and one caster) in fact, if youre so inclined. The size of a game can range from about 2 minis for a wee one, up to 30 or 40 infantry for a big one (but that same big game could be half a dozen warjacks. There are no restrictions on how you build your army, with the exception of certain character models being one-per-side.)

4) The restick that the newer jacks are made from is a bit hum in my opinion. It's a tad soft, so it doesnt file very well, although cutting it is a doddle. I havent seen any human sized models done with it, only the warjacks that I have.

5) The interplay it has with Hordes is very nice. The different beast/jack system is different enough to change how you think about the game, but the various factions all balance well.

Overall, I think Warmachine (and Hordes) is a very nice game, with good background (Iron Kingdoms helps a lot with adding depth), a well designed game system, and minis that range from OK to bloody marvellous.

As I say, this is kinda a newbie opinion, but I hope it helps.

 

[uglybug]

I'm new to warmachine hordes but I love what I have seen so far. The hordes are all metal still which I love cause some of those big monsters have some awesome weight to the models. I painted about 60 troll blood for a friend and about 60 skorne for myself. Although I liked the look of the skorne warbeasts at first I wish I had the troll blood army. The infantry are much meatier and have more character. As far as the play factor a lot of people that use to like 40k say they like warmachine/hordes more cause it is like chess and 40k is like checkers. Personally I still like malifaux more It's like chess and poker combined.

 

[cannon_fodder]

As far as the minis go, yes, the plastic/resiny stuff is a bit soft and some spruecuts and or mold lines are in awkward in most places, but they are definitely trying to tend to the modular crowd by making multiple 'jack options available in one box (and many of us magnetize) and have mentioned that the 'casters and many of the single-ish characters will be remaining in Metal as long as feasible and many new kits are resin (real for largest models to this point-Battle engines)/ metal hybrids. But there has been a lot of talk on the PPS forums, and any potential players must realize that Warmachine/Hordes is meant to be a good game with good models for it; not a great set of miniatures with a ruleset tacked on later. They try to produce quality miniatures (and usually do, especially if 'to scale' within an army isn't an issue for you); but the miniatures are largely there to let you play the game, and conversions (while existent) are strictly controlled so there is no ambiguity(I.e. a <insert faction here> 'jack with a mace and a flamer will always be the same 'jack, or a <insert faction here> jack with <this> chassis and a glowing hammer in it's right hand will always be the same jack) and customization occurs within units by adding nofficers rather than changing equipment

Warmachine/Hordes has a solid ruleset and PPS has made it a priority to never kill off, or honestly make absolete in any way, any of their 'casters/units/pieces/etc. so it is constantly adapting. At one point a few years ago, at the height of power creep, PPS tore down the rules for everybody, made some models more powerful, others less so, and put all factions on a level playing field (resetting power creep to zero to begin a new, to honest) with a new ruleset, but no one faction gets something that makes them overly powerful by comparison.

It is scalable (to a point, all games are played on the same sized battlefield for the most part), and comparatively fewer models are needed in a big game (Battleboxes aka premade starter armies are around 4 miniatures each, with many units ranging from 6-10 at max with often 4 units as an average during games).

One of easiest ways to change an entire army is to change warcaster (generals) as they all have unique abilities and spell lists so the same army could play very differently depending on whihc 'caster is at the helm (One may be 'jack-centric while another may be infantry centric, some make specific 'jacks better, others are assassins and the rest of the army just clears the way, etc.)

It really is a fun game and there are lots of poor quality minis that can't compare to Warmachine/Hordes, and I've recently found a technique that helps with sanding the soft plastics alot: Wet Sanding, so new techniques make the minis lots easier to work with

Bottom line: If you are looking for a fun game with a solid set of rules, fewish models necessary, models that are easy to recognize and meomorize in battle and fun to work with (once you get to know a few easy tricks), and very entertaining fluff every step of the way, then Warmachine and/or Hordes are for you (How to choose: Warmachine crosses scifi with fantasy with renaissance and a splash of religious zeal and/or zombies; Hordes is very beastial in nature and incorporates tradition fantasy settings into vampire/werewolf/dragon/golem elements in new ways. )

If top end (PPS is close, but not all the way there yet, some kinks to work on, but more and more often the details are there) models with high levels of customization, individual models having a plethora of kitting possibilities, and a good looking force as the focus of the game over rules are your thing, then PPS might be fun, but not as sticky of an idea to you.

Just my inflated opinion. I really like the game and the idea of killing a werewolf hyped on steroids with a robot psionically controlled by a wizard with a big freaking sword is just too cool to pass up.

 

[Sanguinary Dan]

I was finally sucked into the Iron Kingdoms early this fall and I must say I'm hooked. After 20+ years of 40K with many hundreds of models I've finally found a game I'd rather play. Not that I won't ever play 40K again, just that Warmachine gives me a better gaming experience with the limited time I have to game per week.

The why of it is very simple. Within a single faction (I play Cygnar) I can have a completely different army just by switching Warcasters. Different feel, different play style, strengths and weaknesses. And I can honestly say that I've never run into the same army twice when facing different players. Nor is there any army that is an auto win against any other. Combined with a rules set that is well written and edited the flexibility of the armies makes for excellent repeat playability. In fact, the complete lack of a mandatory Arguements Phase should be enough to get you to try the game.

And while the quality of sculpting is all over the map, they are getting better. Since it takes fewer models to play a full size game you can pick and choose your forces to avoid the crappy (generally older) sculpts and still have a good army. Particularly since there is no need to spam units in any way, shape or form.

 

[Gannon]

Well, being a Press Ganger myself, I'm a bit biased. I will say that PP has released an excellent incarnation of the game with Warmachine and Hordes MK II. I'm a vet gamer as well although not as salty as some of the other dogs here with only 13 years experience, I've found a game that I enjoy a hell of a lot more than any other game I've played before.

I used to play 40K religiously, not looking at any other games or being interested at all. That changed about a few years ago with the change of attitude I perceived from GW as a company towards their customers. I started dabbling in other games such as Malifaux, Firestorm Armada, CCG's, and boardgames. Then a buddy of mine was buying into Warmachine at a discount so I said the hell with it and did so as well. Haven't looked back since.

Jack models, sure some of them look a little clunky, but others look amazing. I don't get too caught up on looks, I see it as being a utilitarian measure and read the rules over model aesthetics. They have released more multi part plastic kits recently and are expanding the multi plastic into their Hordes line now. This allows those of us that magnetize to utilize one Jack chasis for multiple model types.

The models just seem to be getting better. I just bought my Cygnar Storm Strider Battle Engine and love it. If you're on the fence I'd take the plunge and get a few demo games in with your local Privateer Press Ganger. You can find him or her here

Good luck and if you have any other questions post them up!

 

[Pake]

Gannon, I couldn't agree with you more. I have a relationship of 20+ years with GW and it was hard to start "looking around" but since discovering Warmachine I found the spark again that I had 20 years ago.
I started building a Mercenaries force and I'm building a gaming table that I always wanted to build.

I think I'm not going to play 40K in a looong time...

 

[Annichka]

I thoroughly enjoy Warmachine/ Hordes, and have been playing it for the last 5 years. There is still that randomness that dice brings to the table, but with the Fury and Focus resource management you can have more control over your "Fate." Cannon_fodder made some excellent points, including the fact that nothing will ever be killed off or made obsolete. When Privateer was making the new rules set, they did an open playtest and put out a "Here are the rules so play a bit and get back to us with some constructive criticism"... the amazing thing was that they actually listened, and the game is much better for it But, like Gannon, I'm a bit biased as a Pressganger myself.

 

[hajmoid]

wow guys thanks for the feedback. I would say Kador would have to be my fave models so far. I have noticed a lot of people playing infinity of late too, but I really like the dark age models also, which game would you say is best, being all in similar scale (mid sized skirmish games)?

 

[Gannon]

I've been reading up on both DA and Infinity and have to say that each of these games plays completely different.

WM/Hordes is your steam punk/fantasy game genre. The rules are very well written and game play is fast and furious. The fact that you can play WM vs. Hordes expands the game from a 5 faction army choice to 10 different factions you can choose from, with each army changing depending on which Warcaster/Warlock you choose. Khador is definitely the faction you want to play if you like tough jacks that hit hard and are even harder to kill. They're slow, but built to last. I'd start out with here if you're just getting into skirmish games. The 2 player starter set will give you everything you need to start the game and more. It's an approximate value of nearly $300 that you can find online for $80, or if you have an LGS, support it with your business for $100.

Infinity will fill your sci-fi niche, and has a fast paced game play with a you activate, I activate, structure, but also with an interruption system where your model can activate during your opponents turn. The models are amazing and you can find out more from The Beasts of War website. They've done quite a few videos discussing the different armies with Corvus Belli.

Dark Age is sci-fi, with a very grim dark flavor. I love the models for this game and am looking into starting a Dragyri army. The story is amazing and you can even download the rules from their website. The fact that they take into account that their tech (such as a laser gun) may backfire on the models using it is amazing. Keep an eye out for this game as I think it will be growing quite a bit over the next year.

 

[Devilsquid]

Welcome to your first steps into the Iron Kingdoms.

I've played Warmachine since near the very beginning, and it offers me something that I really enjoy: A challange. I use the Chess metaphor a lot, and it still holds true to me. Warmachine/Hordes is like chess, where each piece has its own rules, and your Caster is the king and queen rolled into one. The rules are tight enough that the gameplay flows very well, and it's definitely an aggressive game, favoring those who push to make bold actions (which, of course, ocasionally blow up in your face. ).

If you have any questions about Khador, let me know, as I have a large collection of them.

 

[hajmoid]

Hey guys, how many models would you typically use in a 35 point game? Forget outliers just what you would typically expect to see, like 10-15 models (I actually have no idea lol)

 

[Devilsquid]

It really depends on what you bring. 10-20 is about right. Caster, 2-3 jacks, 10 man unit, some solos....

But then again, I've had 40+ models on the board in 35pts

 

[hajmoid]

I'm still struggling to get into the mini's honestly, I don't know what it is but when I see those blue trollbloods I actually chuckle to myself. Then GW releases the Dark Vengence models...

 

[me_in_japan]

I like the trollbloods! tbh, they're supposed to be a bit of a daft faction. The whole game is a bit cartoony, but it works pretty well taken on its own values. 40k is fine for grimdark n all, but warmahordes is a much lighter environment. It's still a more tactical/better designed game though, imho.

 

[marjedi]

Warmahordes is elegant, simple yet complex.

And choosing a.faction is really difficult, since most is awesome.

I have based my choice on coolest colossal/gargantuan.

 

[marjedi]

I'm still struggling to get into the mini's honestly, I don't know what it is but when I see those blue trollbloods I actually chuckle to myself. Then GW releases the Dark Vengence models...

Yeah and then they release a Hellchicken with a enourmous a.., and some zoids crossed with dinobots.

 

[midas-kensai]

Yeah and then they release a Hellchicken with a enourmous a.., and some zoids crossed with dinobots.

Hey, their target customer group does not know what these are, so they can sell that crap to them.
BTT, every time I see ppl in my FLGS play 40k, I pity them inside. If you look at all the crap that comes bundled with GW and all the low quality rules, how can you NOT ?
GW had to release their second FAQ shortly after a major edition upgrade, whereas PP largely only clarifies in their FAQs, which are also much smaller in size. Generally, in 40k no serious game takes fewer than 1500 points, most ppl I talk to, say it's actually 1750pts. Now with a force that large, a game takes its time. That is something that for me is a very limited resource.
Warmahordes provides you with entertaining games even at starter box levels.
Generally a good rule of thumb for model count is to take the points and divide them by 2, so a 50pts game has 25 models on average. The low points count is also very convenient. You don't have to worry about those last 4 points out of 1500, list building is easier and can be done on the fly. Not having tons of models to paint also benefits the quality of the paint job, as you are more inclined to put the time into each individual model with a lower model count.
Another advantage is the card system. You get a stat card for every unit in the game, so all relevant data is there at a glance, like stats, special rules, abilities and damage tracking.
As some ppl already pointed out, the appearance of the models is largely a matter of taste. Truth be told, some models are a bit odd looking. Comparing for example Cygnars Black 13th unit with the Storm Swords, yields an odd size disparity, the storm guys being bulkier and taller than the B13, who, in turn seem unnecessary slender. The B13 are an old sculpt unfortunately, that is the main reason for other such occurrences. Since you are generally not bound to use PP minis for tournament play, you may swap out and proxy such oddities.

Duho...!

 

[theaY]

It is probably one of the best minis game you could ever play.
good rules, with a variety of things you can always do, and the rules are well designed and balanced.