Vallejo Model Color - Thinning

[JaPizzy]

Hello,

I recently started to switch to Vallejo Model Color. I also started a new display piece so I tried thinning my paints to say 8 or 9 water to paint. And I noticed something that I have to ask the pros about.

Is it me or is there a marked difference between thinning with tap water and thinning with distilled water. It seems that the thin paint goes on much smoother with distilled water than it does with just tap water.

It is still a little grainy with thinned that much though. But too solid if thinned less. There must be a learning curve to these paints?

James

 

[lahatiel]

I\'m certainly not a pro, but I\'ll try to address one of your points nonetheless:

While the quality of tap water certainly varies by location, it can be assumed that tap water is going to contain various minerals and/or chemicals that are not present in distilled water, and those are going react with and otherwise affect the paint -- hence the better results with distilled water.

 

[JaPizzy]

That\'s what I would assume, although I\'m still having a little bit of a problem with graininess of the Vallejo. I think that I need to adjust to the paint. I am using distilled water and flow inprover (liquitex) to thin with.

I have heard that there is a learning curve to vallejo, and I have only used GW in the past. Thanks for the advice

Cheers

 

[airhead]

VGC is a bit different than the GW paints you\'ve been using. Much more pigment in VGC, thus you can reduce them so far.

Each painter has their own gunk recipe. Flow Aid, Retarder, Future Floor Finish, dish soap, all find their way into the mix. Mine changes from season to season based on the humidity here.

 

[JaPizzy]

I just tried thinning with just distilled water alone and is seemed that the vallejo model color didn\'t seem to separate as much on the pallette.

Do different flow improvers affect the VMC differently? And if yes, how so?

 

[mickc22]

if you are thinning that far you\'ll need to add a medium with a binding agent in it, such as a glaze, matt or gloss
I\'ve gone as far as 12:1 using glazing medium
I just put a link in the \"help me become a better painter.......\" thread
here\'s a copy of what I put there

Originally posted by mickc22
Mario Fuentes has an excellent article using the Vallejo Acrylics range, just tweak it a bit if you are using GW paints
it\'s not a direct link it takes you to the home page, once there click the appropriate flag for your language
--->(click)\"miniature & model colors\"
---> \"Model Color\" (top link)
scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page you will see a number of links
---> \"figure painting with acrylics\"
or under the heading Painting Figures with Model Color
---> \"Introduction\"

and away you go

I you can save it and print it off too

 

[JaPizzy]

I\'ve read that article before and i usually never thin as much as I did for the job I started this thread about. I just always read about people that thin that much, and do their highlights.

I usually stick to what that article says, like 4 to 1 or 5 to one. Will the VMC separate as quick at these ratios? At 8 or 9 to one it seems to do it almost instantly, which is why I assume you suggested a medium to add to the paint.

And as always I greatly appreciate all of the replies that people have been sending me on this matter

 

[dauber22]

My personal recipe

I mix the following up in a one quart Mason jar:

1 cup of distilled water
1 tablespoon of Future Floor Wax (I believe it\'s maketed as Klear in the UK)
1/2 teaspoon of dish washing liquid
1 cup pure grain alcohol
1 tablespoon Fell\'s Naptha (shaved)
1 teaspoon 5w-30 motor oil
2 dashes of Wochestshire sauce
3 Dashes of Tabasco sauce
1 tablet Alka-Seltzer

Swirl this around in the jhar for a few seconds to mingle the ingredients, then drink it down in one gulp. I find that after doing this, I no longer care how my paints look.

 

[JaPizzy]

I think I could get the same results with some old moonshine sitting out in the shed

 

[mickc22]

yeah, at the higher ratios you need the binder to keep the pigment in solution

 

[J2FcM]

What are the results with painting with separation? I\'ve been painting usually with 5+ to 1 ratios with some GW mixes and the colors seem to get slightly swirly, just wierdness...

Would separated paints turn to chalkyness?

 

[Dragonsreach]

One thing that has not been mentioned is the differing pigment densities of different colours within the Vallejo Model Colour range.
There is a marked \"Grainyness\" in the Ochre colours which means considerable shaking is required to mix the medium and pigment. Golden Ochre is one of the most grainy, whereas Vallejo Ivory is very pigment heavy but also very smooth.

This pigment density can affect the dilution requirements, therefore all I can suggest is that you will need to find your own dilution ratios, but if distilled water is working better for you then continue to use it.


@J2FcM: Sorry but could you clarify your question please.

 

[J2FcM]

Well, I guess my general question would be... is separation a result of too much thinning? I\'ve come to understand that certain colors tend to produce the always complained about (by me) chalkyness... and for me those colors are usually bleached bone and skull white, and often times I mix them with colors and find the paint can be re-mixed... its as if a certain color sinks to the bottom or outer edges.

 

[Beelzebrush]

Originally posted by J2FcM


Well, I guess my general question would be... is separation a result of too much thinning? I\'ve come to understand that certain colors tend to produce the always complained about (by me) chalkyness... and for me those colors are usually bleached bone and skull white, and often times I mix them with colors and find the paint can be re-mixed... its as if a certain color sinks to the bottom or outer edges.

Over diluting acrylic paint is what causes graininess and chalky finishes... the reason is that after about a 50:50 mix, the pigment and binder become unstable. The best way to preserve the quality when thinning is to add an acrylic medium or a dash of soap.

 

[dougaderly]

do you guys end up with bubbles in your thinned paints as well? I\'ve used windsor and newton flow improver, and I ended up with sudsy paint which left ring like bubbles on the mini as they dried this way. How the hell do you get rid of that?

 

[Spacemunkie]

That\'s because it\'s basically just detergent...

 

[JaPizzy]

I have actually found that the following mix is great, through a great amount of experimentation.

One drop of Liquitex matt medium
One drop of Liquitex flow aid
and 5 or 6 drops of distilled water.

It seems that since the more binder you add while thinning with this mix ratio the better it is for keeping the paint in proper suspension so separation isn\'t such a problem. I\'ve easily gone to 4 to 1 with this solution without much of a problem in separation.

As for the bubbles, the only thing I can suggest is to mix your paints a little more gently. I find the same thing happenes if I mix too quickly when making up a batch of paint.

 

[Wren]

I find I most often get bubbles (or enough of them to be a problem) when painting on very textured surfaces like fur, scales, etc. I have found that slow-dri/retarder increases bubbles a lot, I haven\'t noticed a huge increase with flow aid.

You can pop a lot of bubbles by just blowing on them - lay down the paint coat, then blow air onto the surface. You can also take a dry brush and pop the bubbles manually. When working on a large textured surface recently I had to switch to canned air because I was hyperventilating from that much exhaling. That works, but you have to be careful about angle and how close you do it to the mini, the burst of air is strong enough to push or splash the paint onto other areas of the mini.