karpouzian
New member
I'll let you know how it goes... A little scared, and the coats aren't the most even, but we'll see... I've heard some really good things!
Tried priming with white gesso tonight!
- Thread starter karpouzian
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count zero99uk
New member
Gesso is really good, ive had better results with black than white, but then it was a different companies, so it could have been that. Dont worry about the finish, as it shrinks in drying leaving a nice paintable surface.
karpouzian
New member
It has been about 10 hours or so, and there are some details still pretty obscured, and some clotting/wavy texture still... Dry to the touch, but I guess I'll give it a full 24 hours before I get really nitpicky... I did not thin it down (as I've seen some do not), but next batch I may try thinned...
karpouzian
New member
I tried with a thinned down coat, and I can already tell this next time will be going much more smoothly (so to speak)... I'm concerned about the texture, but we'll see tomorrow afternoon... Simple green, in case anyone is wondering, strips it just fine! I also added some black paint to make a grey primer, and that looks like it coats very well!
PegaZus
Stealth Freak
I have used thinned gesso before, and while it did get some sideways looks from several people here, I didn't see any issues with it. But, it has to be thinned quite a bit and any large bits removed. I seem to recall a couple of little lumps that I didn't manage to mix in that I had to remove.
I think its a good alternative to spray primer when outside conditions aren't great, and good for touchups once some of the main colors have already been laid down.
I think its a good alternative to spray primer when outside conditions aren't great, and good for touchups once some of the main colors have already been laid down.
karpouzian
New member
I am very happy with the results... I have not mastered spray primers... Even the shortest burst of paint that has been shaken for 3 or 4 minutes doesn't turn out as well as I want, and I hate multiple coats... Maybe I'll come back to it later, but for now I've got a big bottle of white gesso that works just great...
Jbickley00
New member
For brushing I thin gesso roughly 1 to 1 with water. Fro spraying I thin 1 to 1 with water and then thin it down to the famous milky consistency with airbrush thinner. I use a .28 mm airbrush for gesso and varnish. Gesso can go on pretty thick, but you have to be reasonable. Some of he videos out there give the impression you can goop it on, and while it does shrink, groping it on will still obscure detail. All in all, however, it's the best primer I have ever used.
RuneBrush
New member
I've tried black gesso and it's "OK" for the odd mini. Personally I don't think the adherence is quite as good as a spray can, so I'd not want to use it for miniatures that were going to be used for gaming for fear of the paint wearing off (even with vanish).
A few tips on using a spray can:
- Keep the can at room temperature when not in use, so don't store it in a shed, garage, porch etc.
- Make sure there is NO wind, wind will not only make it difficult to spray but also carries bits of dust and dirt.
- Keep the mini indoors at room temperature until you're ready to spray it.
- When you've put a layer onto the mini take it back indoors as soon as possible to dry.
- Don't be afraid to put a second coat on to cover missed bits.
- Providing the paint isn't "running" you should be OK - I like a solid coverage rather than light dusting.
Basically the aim is to keep the miniature and paint as close to room temperature as you can, this should ensure that you end up with a good matt finish. If add too much cold or damp into the equation it will dry glossy. I tend to spray just outside my back door (which leads into the kitchen) and providing it's not windy or wet nearly always can get a decent undercoat on.
A few tips on using a spray can:
- Keep the can at room temperature when not in use, so don't store it in a shed, garage, porch etc.
- Make sure there is NO wind, wind will not only make it difficult to spray but also carries bits of dust and dirt.
- Keep the mini indoors at room temperature until you're ready to spray it.
- When you've put a layer onto the mini take it back indoors as soon as possible to dry.
- Don't be afraid to put a second coat on to cover missed bits.
- Providing the paint isn't "running" you should be OK - I like a solid coverage rather than light dusting.
Basically the aim is to keep the miniature and paint as close to room temperature as you can, this should ensure that you end up with a good matt finish. If add too much cold or damp into the equation it will dry glossy. I tend to spray just outside my back door (which leads into the kitchen) and providing it's not windy or wet nearly always can get a decent undercoat on.
Jbickley00
New member
And don't forget to keep the can moving. In twenty years I have not found a better primer than gesso, and a big reason fo that is the amount of opportunities spray can primers have for going wrong. Being independent of weather and harsh fumes alone is worth it.
Yes, spray primers are solvent based and have superior adhesion vis a vis gesso. But a coat of gloss varnish takes care of this, even for heavy play (I only paint for gaming-except for the odd commission piece). You can adjust the flatness with a couple coats of matte.
Yes, spray primers are solvent based and have superior adhesion vis a vis gesso. But a coat of gloss varnish takes care of this, even for heavy play (I only paint for gaming-except for the odd commission piece). You can adjust the flatness with a couple coats of matte.
Einion
New member
Have to say, I can think of about five or six things that would be better than your typical acrylic 'gesso' for hand-priming minis!
Regardless of whether you're using this on metals, plastic figs or resin you really should do some adhesion tests to check for yourself if it's truly good enough for your purposes:
take a sample mini prepped exactly as you'd normally do it;
prime it with 'gesso' and then wait for it to dry at least two full days (minimum time for a fairly thorough cure);
now see if it will easily peel from the surface with a gentle scrape from a fingernail, or rub off high spots with rubbing from a fingertip.
If it doesn't withstand this you really should work on modifying your method slightly, or giving serious consideration to an alternative.
Einion
Regardless of whether you're using this on metals, plastic figs or resin you really should do some adhesion tests to check for yourself if it's truly good enough for your purposes:
take a sample mini prepped exactly as you'd normally do it;
prime it with 'gesso' and then wait for it to dry at least two full days (minimum time for a fairly thorough cure);
now see if it will easily peel from the surface with a gentle scrape from a fingernail, or rub off high spots with rubbing from a fingertip.
If it doesn't withstand this you really should work on modifying your method slightly, or giving serious consideration to an alternative.
Einion
Einion
New member
That can make a huge difference, yes - loads of possible differences in formulation from one to the next, including the grain size(s) of the filler pigment and the toughness/hardness of the binder.count zero99uk said:
Most primers of this type are far, far too thick to use straight from the container (even the most fluid types of 'gesso' might benefit from a 50% addition of water and some would require being thinned 5:1 or even more). If you're getting any occlusion of detail you do of course need to thin whatever brand you have there, and apply it in multiple coats.karpouzian said:
You're not going to see any significant improvement in visible detail after the first few hours or so because by that point nearly all the water has already evaporated (i.e. most of the shrinkage has taken place).
Use a better primer; improve your technique; practice.karpouzian said:
There are a great many threads here with the key tips on improving the performance of spray primers, they really do help reduce the effect of varied conditions (like lower temps in winter, higher humidity in your climate etc.) and help in achieving better, more consistent results.
The old mantra of two thin coats is better than one thick coat is true in so many contexts; you have to get used to the idea or live with the consequences.karpouzian said:
Einion
karpouzian
New member
I'm starting to think Gesso isn't for me either... Too... finicky. Hard to reproduce consistant results. Oh well, back to trying spray primers, me thinks. Though I may try reaper or vallejo brush on primers, too...
Dragonsreach
Super Moderator
Vallejo Airbrush Grey Primer .............just as good with a brush when you need to prime and its Precipitating down outside.
Waft with a hairdryer and allow to stand for 10-20 mins (time for a cuppa) before starting to paint.
Job's a good un.
Jbickley00
New member
Ok, chances are I have tried Pretty much every alternative priming method out there, I find that none are better than gesso. Maybe others people have diifrent requirements and like Mr Surfacer, or Vallejo or whatever. Thats fine-I'm just chiming in cause this thread Is about gesso, and I happen to have alot of experience with it, and I have a solid basis for comparison. This does not make anyone using Krylon or mr. Surfacer an idiot, i have gotten good results with both of those and more. I just come back to gesso through an airbrush because it's easier, not weather dependent (it very hard to prime in Arizona in the summerr, or on Guam at any time), and I can do it inside. Before I got an airbrush I was much more committed to Krylon (brushing on primer is the least efficient to me), but since getting an airbrush, gesso is king.
Yes if I scrape at a micro thin layer of gesso, it will come off more easily than Krylon or some others. But I have not found that it flakes off in the pairing process unless I am handling my miniature directly, and in fairness, so does Krylon in those cases. The reality is for gaming figures the gloss is the protection, and any ding that will get through the gloss, will go through whatever is underneath it. if my figures are for display, rough handling should not be an issue.
As far as detail obscuring, I find gesso, properly applied has the least amount of error, and because of its lesser adhesion, is more easily removed when inadvertently glommed on. It should b said that most painting I do, other than commission stuff, is in 6mm. If gesso can be applied and I can still find the monocle on a 6mm officer mini, then 28mmm cavernous relief should be fine. Maybe painting mega huge miniatures entails a different set of variables, but I have gesso primed and painted a Couple of titans, if anecdotal evidence matters.
Does this mean I think everyone should run out, get an airbrush, and spray prime with gesso (and use high end brushes, artist acrylics, and a wet palette-hehe)? Absolutely. Does this mean it's the only possible solution no. But hey, I am lazy and have jobs oter than painting to pay the bills, so anything that maximizes my painting time and helps make getting good results easier (and sometimes cheaper) I am all for it. But that's me, others swear by GW and don't feel exploited lol.
Yes if I scrape at a micro thin layer of gesso, it will come off more easily than Krylon or some others. But I have not found that it flakes off in the pairing process unless I am handling my miniature directly, and in fairness, so does Krylon in those cases. The reality is for gaming figures the gloss is the protection, and any ding that will get through the gloss, will go through whatever is underneath it. if my figures are for display, rough handling should not be an issue.
As far as detail obscuring, I find gesso, properly applied has the least amount of error, and because of its lesser adhesion, is more easily removed when inadvertently glommed on. It should b said that most painting I do, other than commission stuff, is in 6mm. If gesso can be applied and I can still find the monocle on a 6mm officer mini, then 28mmm cavernous relief should be fine. Maybe painting mega huge miniatures entails a different set of variables, but I have gesso primed and painted a Couple of titans, if anecdotal evidence matters.
Does this mean I think everyone should run out, get an airbrush, and spray prime with gesso (and use high end brushes, artist acrylics, and a wet palette-hehe)? Absolutely. Does this mean it's the only possible solution no. But hey, I am lazy and have jobs oter than painting to pay the bills, so anything that maximizes my painting time and helps make getting good results easier (and sometimes cheaper) I am all for it. But that's me, others swear by GW and don't feel exploited lol.
Hello, I very recently started painting minis and I'm very interested in hearing some details about how you spray gesso with an airbrush. I also reside in a climate that is not well suited to spray can priming so I decided to brush gesso. For the most part I've been happy but have had a few issues getting consistent results.
I assume you thin the gesso before airbrushing, correct? What do you use to thin? Water or some type of medium? And about what consistency do you thin to? Also, do you typically require multiple coats? If so, do you wait for the first coat to "cure" (24 hours according to the bottle) before applying subsequent coats or do you just wait until the gesso appears dry? Any other tips you can think of?
Anyways, thanks for giving me the idea to give this a try, I'm using Liquitex black gesso by the way.
Edit: upon more careful reading of the thread, I see you already answered my questions about thinning, apologies!
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count zero99uk
New member
One thing that has come from this thread is that we are all different 
and thats great.
Just for more info the Black Gesso that i use is Windsor and Newtons Black Gesso Primer. I use it as is and brush it in a thin coat over the miniature. Ive had good results from 10mm to 28mm scale models without it hiding any details. I do have some droppers of Vallejos Brush on black and white but havent gotten around to using it yet.
I dont spray due to lung problems. Ive been advised before on here that an airbrush could be a good investment, but ill look into that when the gesso runs out, probably about 20 years.
Without some photos im unsure of what advice to give the OP, but respect the gesso, dont overload your mini thinking it will be fine, just make sure you have coverage everywhere.
If you look on my blog about 90% of the stuff on there has been primed with gesso. Now it could be as im painting to game my standards are slightly lower than the Golden Demon Hunters, but it works for me.
Take care and have fun.
and thats great.Just for more info the Black Gesso that i use is Windsor and Newtons Black Gesso Primer. I use it as is and brush it in a thin coat over the miniature. Ive had good results from 10mm to 28mm scale models without it hiding any details. I do have some droppers of Vallejos Brush on black and white but havent gotten around to using it yet.
I dont spray due to lung problems. Ive been advised before on here that an airbrush could be a good investment, but ill look into that when the gesso runs out, probably about 20 years
.Without some photos im unsure of what advice to give the OP, but respect the gesso, dont overload your mini thinking it will be fine, just make sure you have coverage everywhere.
If you look on my blog about 90% of the stuff on there has been primed with gesso. Now it could be as im painting to game my standards are slightly lower than the Golden Demon Hunters, but it works for me.
Take care and have fun.
Einion
New member
As with all kinds of acrylic-type paints, there's no need to wait for a full cure before applying further coats. If you're using a stiff brush and applying primer (or paint) to a textured surface it can be a good idea, but generally speaking touch-dry is sufficient for a subsequent coat not to disturb the first.Vishuss said:
You don't have to wait for natural drying, as quick-drying as acrylics it can be really handy to speed the process along using a hairdryer. I use this all the time when painting but it's most useful for me when priming hardboard, MDF or plywood, since I usually apply at least four and as many as eight or nine coats of 'gesso'... so there's no way I want to wait for it to dry naturally.Vishuss said:
Einion
Jbickley00
New member
Vishus,
I usually only use one coat, as it's sprayed on pretty thin. I spray through a .28mm nozzle at about 30psi. It's critical to clean your airbrush while doing this...in big jobs I clean every time the cup is empty. It works with both black and white. I tend to drill and pin my minis to a cork base, or at very least superglue them to a Popsicle stick, so I never hold my minis while I paint them. In my world primer is just for adhesion of paint, it's the varnishes tha protects the surface. After priming, I typically go with an airbrushed base coat, sort of blocking in colors, and then some shading. After the initial airbrushing, I hit it with a quick layer of matte varnish ( not medium) and then get to the business of hilighting and detailing. Once this is done, I do a gloss coat which serves as a base for the oil was, and then a matte varnish after the oil wash. At this stage it gets more complicated, most cause I have not sorted out my technique- I might use pigments, I might go through another round of highlights, or I might be done. Usually I do a little more fine tuning with highlights after he oil wash, especially if I a working in metallics or light colors. Finally a coat go gloss for protection and some final Matte.
As you can see the airbrush lets me layer in thin coats of varnish, the primer is only holding down the undercoat. This is my process, now, it's an evolving thing. Importantly I rarely paint display pieces, so finish protection is key or me as the mini will get handled.
I have today been experimenting with zenithal priming, and it works well..the airbrush gives good control over where the hi lights go.
I usually only use one coat, as it's sprayed on pretty thin. I spray through a .28mm nozzle at about 30psi. It's critical to clean your airbrush while doing this...in big jobs I clean every time the cup is empty. It works with both black and white. I tend to drill and pin my minis to a cork base, or at very least superglue them to a Popsicle stick, so I never hold my minis while I paint them. In my world primer is just for adhesion of paint, it's the varnishes tha protects the surface. After priming, I typically go with an airbrushed base coat, sort of blocking in colors, and then some shading. After the initial airbrushing, I hit it with a quick layer of matte varnish ( not medium) and then get to the business of hilighting and detailing. Once this is done, I do a gloss coat which serves as a base for the oil was, and then a matte varnish after the oil wash. At this stage it gets more complicated, most cause I have not sorted out my technique- I might use pigments, I might go through another round of highlights, or I might be done. Usually I do a little more fine tuning with highlights after he oil wash, especially if I a working in metallics or light colors. Finally a coat go gloss for protection and some final Matte.
As you can see the airbrush lets me layer in thin coats of varnish, the primer is only holding down the undercoat. This is my process, now, it's an evolving thing. Importantly I rarely paint display pieces, so finish protection is key or me as the mini will get handled.
I have today been experimenting with zenithal priming, and it works well..the airbrush gives good control over where the hi lights go.
