Tips for combating Specific Factions.

[Mein Fury]

We've discussed the strengths and weaknesses of those few units we have available to us. Seems the consensus is that Wardens are a good value, Stag Knights are not, and Sentinels are just contentious. I wish I had a larger player pool in my area so I could keep learning, but opportunities to get my stuff on the table are very limited. There isn't much interest in it. That said, between my brother in law and a local player I found, I've played against mostly Starks; particularly Robb-led Starks. I find them pretty difficult to deal with. Thanks to wolves and more low-cost NCU options, on average they out-activate my starter set stuff by about 2 activations. So they have more stuff, and yet most of it seems higher quality as well. They're on parity concerning morale, but move better and hit harder, all for the same point costs. Add to all of this a great deck of cards that has a wide variety of triggers to account for most situations, and you have one seriously tough nut to crack. I've lost 2 games against them (hard) and won 1 game (barely). The game I won, I just abandoned the idea of trying to fight them on my own terms because they would always out maneuver and out card-play me while hindering my own offensive capabilities. I just decided to game the terms of the Game Mode scenario as hard as I could, buckle down, and hope to survive the onslaught until I hit the required VP total. It just barely worked. If the game had gone even one more Turn, I would have been annihilated.

So I'd like you guys to share some of your insights concerning how you prefer to deal with these guys, or other factions that you might encounter a lot in your area. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

 

[Oakwolf]

We've discussed the strengths and weaknesses of those few units we have available to us. Seems the consensus is that Wardens are a good value, Stag Knights are not, and Sentinels are just contentious. I wish I had a larger player pool in my area so I could keep learning, but opportunities to get my stuff on the table are very limited. There isn't much interest in it. That said, between my brother in law and a local player I found, I've played against mostly Starks; particularly Robb-led Starks. I find them pretty difficult to deal with. Thanks to wolves and more low-cost NCU options, on average they out-activate my starter set stuff by about 2 activations. So they have more stuff, and yet most of it seems higher quality as well. They're on parity concerning morale, but move better and hit harder, all for the same point costs. Add to all of this a great deck of cards that has a wide variety of triggers to account for most situations, and you have one seriously tough nut to crack. I've lost 2 games against them (hard) and won 1 game (barely). The game I won, I just abandoned the idea of trying to fight them on my own terms because they would always out maneuver and out card-play me while hindering my own offensive capabilities. I just decided to game the terms of the Game Mode scenario as hard as I could, buckle down, and hope to survive the onslaught until I hit the required VP total. It just barely worked. If the game had gone even one more Turn, I would have been annihilated.

So I'd like you guys to share some of your insights concerning how you prefer to deal with these guys, or other factions that you might encounter a lot in your area. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

I've fought the Starks twice under Robb with a Stannis-led, warden focused army. The scenario was the basic 5 objectives to grab and hold, so i had to move and that's really their game.

I've lost quickly once because they grabbed most of the objectives quickly and i found that wardens couldn't dislodge the sworn swords quick enough.

We replayed and i removed the sentinel unit i had for another warden unit, but most importantly: i changed my tactics entirely. I focused on claiming the manoeuvre zone every time i could and attempted to reach objectives -at all costs-. This worked, and while i suffered losses from doing so, this time it was the Starks who were not able to remove Baratheon fast enough and VPs started to show for it. Stag Knights proved essential to hold the center point (morale 5+) and Starks were afraid to attack them with the Noble in there, but they had to since that point is worth so much. Also, the Stags don't exactly care if they fail the objective's panic check because they loose no dice and gain abilties as they are damaged.

I've found that denying the Manoeuvre zone was key to fighting starks with that particular army, even if it meant that some of my tactic cards were not optimal. Alester Florent helped a bit in there (one of the rare cases i used his ability)

 

[Mein Fury]

That is almost exactly the experience I had against Robb the last time I played, narrowly winning on points 10/9 in Feast for Crows. I just sort of did the thing I'm not supposed to do, and ignored my own preferred zones in favor of the maneuver zone so I could get my wardens onto objectives. Throughout the game I only took the Crown and tactics zones a couple of times. I think I used alesters ability mostly late game to grab the tactics zone when the Stark player already held the sword or horse to get the cards into my hand, and then switch him with a stark NCU for one of those zones. Keeping their card abilities from getting stronger, seemed better for my defensively skewed units, than adding buffs to my cards. Seems almost counter-intuitive, but it worked out because there were a couple rounds where I didn't even get a chance to play a card. I had 3 "When a unit is destroyed" cards at one point, which was just annoying. But even just robbing them of some of their bonuses seemed like a step in the right direction. I think some of the new movement and card control abilities from the heroes coming down the pipe will really help Baratheons against Starks.

 

[Oakwolf]

That is almost exactly the experience I had against Robb the last time I played, narrowly winning on points 10/9 in Feast for Crows. I just sort of did the thing I'm not supposed to do, and ignored my own preferred zones in favor of the maneuver zone so I could get my wardens onto objectives. Throughout the game I only took the Crown and tactics zones a couple of times. I think I used alesters ability mostly late game to grab the tactics zone when the Stark player already held the sword or horse to get the cards into my hand, and then switch him with a stark NCU for one of those zones. Keeping their card abilities from getting stronger, seemed better for my defensively skewed units, than adding buffs to my cards. Seems almost counter-intuitive, but it worked out because there were a couple rounds where I didn't even get a chance to play a card. I had 3 "When a unit is destroyed" cards at one point, which was just annoying. But even just robbing them of some of their bonuses seemed like a step in the right direction. I think some of the new movement and card control abilities from the heroes coming down the pipe will really help Baratheons against Starks.

I think that Robb is one of those commanders who can control the game if you let him be. Going to "battle" with a plan is good, but that plan will fail if it meets Robb Stark. I think that's intended, and Baratheons are currently one of the least flexible army so it's a bit of a challenge. That said, they are hardy...And the Starks, for all their offense, are not the best at holding objectives.

For instance, the Sworn Swords (one of the best 5pter in the game) almost need to use Stark's fury against wardens defense (and weakened engine), but over time this reduce their ranks...allowing wardens to contest objectives.

Stark Outriders are great at 7pts, but must charge from the flanks/rear to really dent a Wardens unit. They can get there easily, but trouble is: the Warden Master negate that bonus, so they must go for other units, delaying their impact.

This leaves Tully Cavalier, and Berserkers to be the main threat, imho. Cavaliers can almost destroy a unit on the charge, and Berserker will usually bring one elite into the grave with it.

 

[Mein Fury]

I think that Robb is one of those commanders who can control the game if you let him be. Going to "battle" with a plan is good, but that plan will fail if it meets Robb Stark. I think that's intended, and Baratheons are currently one of the least flexible army so it's a bit of a challenge. That said, they are hardy...And the Starks, for all their offense, are not the best at holding objectives.

For instance, the Sworn Swords (one of the best 5pter in the game) almost need to use Stark's fury against wardens defense (and weakened engine), but over time this reduce their ranks...allowing wardens to contest objectives.

Stark Outriders are great at 7pts, but must charge from the flanks/rear to really dent a Wardens unit. They can get there easily, but trouble is: the Warden Master negate that bonus, so they must go for other units, delaying their impact.

This leaves Tully Cavalier, and Berserkers to be the main threat, imho. Cavaliers can almost destroy a unit on the charge, and Berserker will usually bring one elite into the grave with it.

This is good stuff. I definitely think Master Wardens are awesome, especially against highly maneuverable forces like Robbs that love to charge in from various angles. They’ve really saved my hide a couple times. I don’t think I would play Starks or Targaryens without them. But I would play without Sentinels. If Robb is going to outmaneuver me, and affect my charges, then having a 6-point aggressive unit that has no defensive abilities hardly makes sense. Better to save a point and swap them with the Wardens as you did , or Stormcrows, or Cutthroats if you still want the offense at a 1 point savings. I’d rather have the stormcrow bag attack, or the cutthroats Vicious special rule anyway. I have had some more success with Sentinels than I did initially, but I still don’t like them. They’re expensive with an attachment and feel just “average” at everything they do. And with no interesting abilities, they’re just not that fun to play with imo.

Those outriders on the other hand are full of goodies. They are a great unit you’re right, and it’s funny to me that they’re not even considered top tier by most Stark players. Like many of the Stark units in general, they attack well, have ok armor, and aren’t expensive. But then on top of that, they have amazing synergy between their abilities and the tactics cards. Their ability to pull out of combat (where I need them to stay), only to charge back in, is so frustrating. They’re just pulling constant shenanigans.

We don’t have anything that can pull so many tricks. However I wonder how the new commanders might rectify this somewhat. I am curious to see how Davos and Andrew play against Starks. The fomer, especially when paired with his son, might end up allowing the Baratheons to bring their maneuverability up to a competitive level with Starks. The latter option, looks like he’ll allow you to actually follow through with your previously-futile plan, by removing those clutch Stark tactics cards, while fishing for your preferred ones. Given that we had some success by just controlling the maneuver zone more often, I can only imagine how removing some of their cards could help us give it to them.

 

[beruang]

Greetings. First post here. Yesterday I played Fire And Blood scenario, fought againts Targaryens for the first time. Their armies have 6 activations, consists of 4 CUs which is 3 Screamers with Ko, a Drogo's Veteran and the starter NCUs. My plan is to out-activate him, so I brought this army.

Commander : Stannis

CUs :
- Stannis + Sentinels
- Wardens
- Wardens
- Wardens
- Bron + Stormcrow Archers
- Bolton Cutthroats

NCUs :
- Shyra Errol
- Petyr Baelish

During deployment, I placed Cutthroats on the left flank, followed by 2 Wardens, Archers, Wardens and Sentinels. They were all in straight line, although there were gaps between them so that my opponent can't charge on my Cutthroats and Sentinels flank. I placed them all as close to the map center.
On the first round, my opponent gave Move +2 to his rightmost Screamer via Daenerys and Unstoppable Advanced card. I didnt aware Targ have this cards, so he punished my lack of knowledge by charging head on with my Cutthroat. 6 wounds were dealt on that charge. Before I can counterattack by playing Ours is Fury, the Screamers managed to retreat no thanks to Hit And Run card. The rest of the round is just movement where my opponent moved all his units to my left side, avoiding the Sentinels. On the next round, the same Screamer charged my Cutthroat again and completely destroyed them, leaving my flank unprotected. By this time, everything went good for the Targ and wrong for the Bara. The Targ won the game with 11-3.

I've been self-reflecting, and I think this are my mistakes and weakness :
- deployed too deep to the center.
- have too many gaps between units.
- placed non-anvil units to guard the flank.
- don't know how to recover when flank units are downed.

So, any tips on how to counter the high maneuverability units and how to defend the flank more efficiently?

 

[JeppeP]

I've fought the Starks twice under Robb with a Stannis-led, warden focused army. The scenario was the basic 5 objectives to grab and hold, so i had to move and that's really their game.

I've lost quickly once because they grabbed most of the objectives quickly and i found that wardens couldn't dislodge the sworn swords quick enough.

We replayed and i removed the sentinel unit i had for another warden unit, but most importantly: i changed my tactics entirely. I focused on claiming the manoeuvre zone every time i could and attempted to reach objectives -at all costs-. This worked, and while i suffered losses from doing so, this time it was the Starks who were not able to remove Baratheon fast enough and VPs started to show for it. Stag Knights proved essential to hold the center point (morale 5+) and Starks were afraid to attack them with the Noble in there, but they had to since that point is worth so much. Also, the Stags don't exactly care if they fail the objective's panic check because they loose no dice and gain abilties as they are damaged.

I've found that denying the Manoeuvre zone was key to fighting starks with that particular army, even if it meant that some of my tactic cards were not optimal. Alester Florent helped a bit in there (one of the rare cases i used his ability)

Personally, against starks, you don't need to have so many activations anymore. Axel 3 point NCU will kill wolves if used correctly, and with Melissande. She kills the Infanterie or cavalry, so they want to heal them, then Axel can influence the wolves and give them a condition token. By turn 3 a 8 activation list is mostly certain a 6 activation list and then you have a relative unharmed 6 elite activation list to counter them