Struggling with airbrushing.

[shaun5603]

Reaching out for help after many trail and error mistakes. Two things are killing me and causing more me headaches and mishaps, I have a Iwata Micron CM-C plus and using a smart jet compressor. This is the first airbrush I bought it's. So I'm still in learning phase with the airbrush, had it about 4 months. And I run scale 75 paints ( pick up the whole paint collection) and secret weapon's washes. And I don't know if it's me or airbrush or paints. But I am definitely not winning that's all I know.

Problems

the paint, every one I spoke too and all research I did scale came back one of highest recommended, and seeing what people were doing with the colors and what I have been able to do. I really like paints and would recommend them. But for the life of me I can't get them thinned right for my airbrush.

Should I add agitator to paint bottles, to help when shaking them up. Sometimes they run clear for few drops than the color comes. Is this normal? I often away for months on end for work. So they sit for untouched,
and if so what's good to use?

Some colors are thinner than others I found out. The ones in metal range, guessing that just nature of how the color was made? Or is it issue of no being mixed well by me.

I mix the paint 2 drop thiner 1 drop paint, in glass paint bottle's for colors i want to keep and use a lot of. And plastic shot glasses for temporary use colors. And use a brush to mix it, and sometimes the paint is too thick and Clumps up and other times it turns in to consistency of ink or glaze.
I been using scale thinner. Wanted to keep it all the same so there no brand compatibility issues.

Is there better method of doing this to get consistent results?

What is "right" consistency to use in that kinda of airbrush. The book says to run at 14psi so that's what been using. Is this optimal for scale paints? Or should I try a different psi level.

The airbrush kicks my ass all day long, I know there learning curve but I'm getting beat up.

Some times the paint comes out like fire hose all over the place others it fine mist that giving out even coats. But I just can't figure out the setting's on gun. Is there links to using this gun? I know right out the box I am not going to be achieving some of finest detail work out there. So going to ask some basic and stupid questions.

on back end of tube it had a adjustable knob from 0-4 which limits the needle movement. But how do the numbers effect the air and paint coming out? The higher the number the more paint coming out? I tried the numbers but seeing different effects each time.

the value in front of gun under the needle, what does it do and how is it used effectively.
The instructions in the book very vague and offered up nothing to help. They show lines that can be made but not explanation of how to achieve thin lines, transition to wider-lines and the stippling effect.

It's not all doom and gloom with some beginners luck I was able to get great results on test batch of 45 genesteelers. Blending 4 shades of grays all on all of them and come out to nice uniform blend. Was very happy with them. But had to leave for work for few months and now home on r&r and having no luck.
How is the scale Fantasy line? Are they all new colors? Worth adding to my collection?

thanks

 

[Webmonkey]

ok,... there's a bit to cover, but I'll try to simplify,.. so here it goes,...

Not all paints are the same consistency to start with, even from the same manufacturer. White paint tends to have a lot of titanium in it, (it's what makes it white), and that tends to make the base paint thicker then, let's say,.. a bright cherry red. Which, by the nature of it's own pigments, is much thinner. Ergo,.. you'll need a different amount water/medium to achieve the same viscosity.

Thinner is always better, but then always requires more coats. If you are looking for a comparison,.. I suggest buying a bottle of something like Vallejo air-brush paints. They are pre-thinned to be used right out of the bottle. (I suggest a bottle of black or something, so that if you don't like the way it behaves at least it's still a color you can use).

I think your main problem is your air pressure though. Try tightening the needle screw at the back of the airbrush all the way down. Yes, this will essentially "close" the needle port down and you won't be able to pull back the trigger. (but that's ok as that's where you want to start). Then turn your pressure up,.. around 30-35psi. (and leave it there. Yes, sometimes psi adjustments are necessary,.. but most of your adjustments should be made at the airbrush) Now, back the needle screw off just a quarter (maybe half) of a turn. And then hit the trigger and do a test line on a paper towel. If it isn't wide enough, back the screw off another partial turn,.. then test again.. repeat until you achieve the desired spray thickness/pattern. If you need to change colors, reset the needle to the "closed" position, and start the process again. As you get more experienced, you may be able to skip the "reset step". But in the beginning,.. it's a good habit to have,

As for the consistency of your shots,.. "sometimes it comes out like a fire hose, sometimes a fine mist". This may have a bit to do with your psi,.. but I'm guessing the more likely culprit is "poor trigger control". See,.. the trigger is "dual-action". When you press down, you release air,. when you pull back, you release paint. To get consistent spray, you have to develop consistent habits. Always try to make sure that you are pushing down before you pull back,.. and when done,.. that your finger is fully back forward before you lift up. It's also a good idea to start and end your strokes off of the model. This will help eliminate splatters and such.

Try these first,.. and if you have more questions, feel free to ask *grin*

Hope this helped,.

 

[shaun5603]

Thank's for the tips going to give them a try tomorrow. I have treating it more like a pistol just line it up and slowly squeeze the trigger back. So by the time I pushed down I had pulled it all the way back. Doing the exact opposite of what you just said to try.

 

[Webmonkey]

You may find that the psi I suggested isn't right for you,.. but start there, and if you find that it's too much, then dial it back some until you find the flow that you like. As for your trigger control,... yeah, I think that's the problem. By pulling back first,.. you are allowing the reservoir to fill up with paint before the air gets to it. So, basically, the air gets to the tip,.. hit's a huge wall of paint, and sends it all flying out the end of the nozzle. I know the tip is small, and the reservoir doesn't hold much to the naked eye. But when you're dealing with a machine that works on the micron level, that drop or two you allowed to roll into the tip is a HUGE amount of paint. Like I said,.. practice making an "L" shape with your fingertip movement. Down, then back, then forward, then up. This should help a lot.

 

[shaun5603]

Was able too get little bitter control practice on shadeing base trying to get right blend of colors for my new project.

 

[shaun5603]

Is better to mix the paint in the gun it self? Or mix it than pour it in to reservoir?

 

[Webmonkey]

I always mix/thin in a separate container, then add to the gun

 

[MAXXxxx]

like WM said, it's better to mix in a separate container.
too bad, that I'm too lazy to do that. If you mix in the gun, then the order to add the parts: first water, then thinner then paint. If you start with paint, then it dries fast on the front and clogs the ab.

 

[shaun5603]

Awesome thanks, I been doing separate just wasnt sure it was easier to mix it in the gun. Eventually I'll get this stuff down.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

I have zero experience with AB. However, I do have experience with taking advice from Maxxx. Follow his instructions very closely.

 

[shaun5603]

We need to add water and thinner? I just been thiner and paint. Still haven't found the right ratios. I take notes on each attempt but sometimes it like water and sometimes it clogs the gun. But I did get lucky to day and few costs down, than took the gun apart to clean it for night, do some detail work few things I am not airbushing.

 

[MAXXxxx]

Follow his instructions very closely.

well not for thinning the paint in the AB. I do it because of lazyness. It's not a good practice. (A bit like brushlicking , also not a wise thing to do, but it helps with my transitions)

no need, but how I do it:
VGC paints: add Vallejo Airbrush thinner
VMC/VAC/P3/GW for basecoats and such: add water as thinner
VMC/VAC/P3/GW for shading/transitions and low-psi 'detail' work: add glaze medium and water as thinner
Tamiya: add water and some Tamiya thinner for thinning it
Schminke AB paints: nothing, thin enough for AB use. (could be thinned a bit with water for subtler effect)

 

[shaun5603]

Gotcha on the water, I have read few conflicting reports on water, some claim based on water using the minerals can affect the colors. But my skill level is no where near a area where slight varying of different trace elements in water can affect colors in a way I can tell.

I been using just the scale thinner, which other than label is just like any other thinners out there. However I was reading a reviews of one of the paints and some recommendations where adding a medium to it over the thinner do to the way the paint is made. The only one I could find was liquitex airbrush medium. And was on fence about it adding it, does anyone have any experience with it?

i haven't ran any of the metallic paints in the AB yet. Because the flakes in the paint is there anything different I need to do or just treat them like normal paints?


My apologies if I'm asking way to many questions.

 

[Webmonkey]

Not all metallics are created equal. If its designed for AB, then the metal flakes have been ground down to a much finer consistancy. The flakes in regular metallics are sometimes too large, and end up clogging the nozzle. You can spray them,.. but be prepared to mess with the tip a lot more in order to clear the blockage.

 

[shaun5603]

Wasn't to horrible AB the scale metals, still haven't gotten down the right consistency. But it didn't jam the gun up either. Like GW metals do.

But it I think I rather brush on the metals, or pick up bigger er needle and tip .23 touchy as it is, the metal flakes would/could add to learning curve with AB.

 

[MAXXxxx]

no experience with liquitex, sorry.

metals. Scale's is pretty good and airbrushable (on par with VAC on mice size, maybe even finer).
What I learned:
- most GW / VGC metals need a .3 or .4 nozzle or they clog VERY EASILY (I actually have a cheap chinese AB for this, varnishes and primers, the double action AB costs less than a replacement needle+nozzle for HnS Evolution I have )
- the particles behave differently depending on the psi (very different pattern when airbrushed at 10 or 40psi). Imho they look the best around 10 (or as low as you can get without problems), but that of course means more thinning and still more clogging.
- even if designed for AB (VAC, Andrea, Scale, Tamiya) they need thinning (and I had better results when thinning with a mix of thinner and water)
- according to pros Alclad2 beats all acryls, but it's nasty(smell, toxicity, etc) beyond what I'd want in my house.

 

[shaun5603]

Yeah I dont to want to mess around with anything toxic either. No harm in trying out the thinner and water going to give it a shot.

When paint pools in recesses of a model does that mean it's too thin? the pigment color was more pronounced in the recesses.

 

[Webmonkey]

Too thin may be the problem,... but it also could be that you are applying too heavy and/or not letting the first pass dry before hitting it with the next

 

[boubi]

Here my experience with airbrushing:
First I am using a mix of Vallejo airbrush thinner, water and Tamiya airbrush cleaner or Mr Hobby thinner (less than 10%). With this mix the paint stay fluid in the airbrush... Then I pour few drops of this mix in the cup, then I use an old brush to take some color from GW pots or simply pour a drop or two from vallejo bottles, then with the brush I stir and mix the paint directly in the cup, I know if the consistency is good when I remove the excess of the paint form the brush on a piece of towel, too liquid it will flow on the piece of tissue, too thick it will stay. It should be in between.

When done with that color, if I still have in the cup I remove the excess by throwing it in a wasting pot. And clean the cup quickly with a plastic dropper (pipette) and do it 2 or 3 times, it takes less than 30sec. Then blow some air from the airbrush until it is clear, quickly clean the tip of the airbrush (nozzle and needle) with a brush damped in my thinner mix (less than 10sec).
At the end of my session, I clean the airbrush completely removing needle and nozzle and using small airbrush cleaning brushes and nozzle cleaning tools. After 10 sessions I use a ultra sound cleaning machine.

As everybody mention the thinning process is the most important. You need to build this feeling of the "right paint" by yourself... Then if you are priming with airbrush you will need bigger nozzle and needle and thicker paint. If you want to build nice blended layers you will need thinner paint so you can also reduce the nozzle and needle size. For the nice blended layers the paint should almost dry instantly after being on the model and for that you need good thinning process, then you need to apply 5-8 really thin layers successively to achieve super smooth blending. Then you can switch color and reduce the area... This will ensure you good results.
Airbrush takes time but as soon as you get rid of the clogging problem it is almost always a joy to use!

Good luck!

 

[MrJim]

The difficulty in learning to airbrush, as well as giving / getting guidance online is that there are four different variables that all affect each other. Air Pressure, Paint Viscosity, Distance from Mini, and Air/Paint ratio. Additionally, different setups behave differently at what appears to be the same settings. What I found to be a good way to learn was to start with a couple "airbrush ready" paints or primers. This allows you to remove the one of the trickiest variables from the equation and focus on the air and paint flow settings. Practicing with black (or white) primer on a grey mini is a great way to learn airbrush control without risking the need to strip and start over. It also lets you see a great starting point for paint viscosity. Once you get the feel for your setup and master the relationship between distance, pressure, and air/paint ratio; you are ready to start mixing your own paints. (you will also have learned how to compensate for paint that is a little too thin or a little too thick)