Something for the gamers.

[Panza]

I have, for what seems to have been most of my life, been trying to come up with mu own rules system for a tabletop skirmish game, and since feedback is always a good thing I thought I\'d ask the gamers out there what features they\'d like to see in a new game. Genre, sizes, side turn based, figure turn based, small squad actions, realistic damage systems, unrealistic but high speed action resolution, existing figure line or brand new sculpts.....? You tell me, I\'ll write it all up and be a millionaire by Christmas.

 

[supervike]

not much of a gamer...

I wish I was a more avid gamer, but I just can\'t find the time.

I would tend to think a fast paced \'skirmish\' style game that could convey realistic damage would be neat.

I like the idea of a warrior being injured in the arm, for instance, and having that affect the rest of the battle/campaign.

It would make it so much more realistic. Rather than saying, \"your warrior just suffered 1 wound\' to say \'your warrior just recieved a tearing gash on his shield arm. He is now unable to carry a shield for the rest of the match. Plus he is getting weak from the blood loss.\"

But, that is the tough part. How to make it realistic, but still fast paced and easy to learn???

That is where you get to earn your million dollars (and BY CHRISTMAS no less!!)

 

[Panza]

I suppose the number of men on you \'side\' should affect the complexity quite drastically. With an army of 25 warriors, individual damage would be a lot harder to keep track of than with a 5 strong action team. Also, teams of 5-10 would be a lot easier to collect and maintain. Keep the ideas coming.

 

[Sand Rat]

I would go with teams of 4 - 6 - 8 - 10 - 12 - etc - then you can use one die to determine damage over the whole unit

 

[Chrispy]

Three things:
Steampunk- there doesn\'t seem to be that many popular games set in the 1800\'s.. Warmachine is somewhat along the lines of fantasy meets machine, but it\'s more fantasy than modern. There was a lot of stuff going on then that can be incorperated- vampires, steam engines, guns, Native Americans just to name a few things.

Half Demon Characters- By some means, the character\'s immediate family includes a demon or devil of some sorts. Heck, we have half elf, orc, ogre and god knows what, why not a demon? Also, using a \"Dantesque\" character from Devil May Cry would be possible.

Solitare Play- A while back, a card game called \"Animania\" came out, and one of it\'s features was you could shuffle in an Objective card into different piles of cards that represented places and their gaurdians. Something like this could be used so that a player could play by himself.

These are just my ideas, feel free to pick through them as you will.

 

[Sand Rat]

Upon further reflection, I would also operate under the KIS principle - Keep it Simple (I know there is supposed to be another S but its my post, so my spelling ) - I would actually try to avoide trying to work individual damages into the system at least at first - make it a romp, then add in the complications after you work out the other features

 

[Nelson]

Larger scale is a must. I agree with all the posts so far. More realistic damage would be cool, but it\'s also true that smaller armies would be a must. Cool, large 35-40mm scale characters. I think steampunk would be really cool, partly because of the novelty. I\'ve seen some pretty sweet steampunk things on the site. One, in particular of an old guy in some sort of mechanical contraption was really cool. With the realistic damage, vehicles, crazy flying machines and such would be a must. cars could becaome damaged, and slow down, or lose control and run over characters. hopefully this could be implemented fairly easily, with a damage chart so it\'s not to complicated.

 

[Panza]

I like the idea of larger minis but it would mean that existing ranges of figures just wouldn\'t be usable. It would be nice to get my own minis done for the game but people still like to use any minis they come across that look interesting so I\'ll probably stick to 25-30mm scale or maybe 1/35. This scale has a wealth of plastic military stuff from companies like Tamiya, Dragon and Academy which are cheap, easy to convert and it wouldn\'t break the bank for me to release conversion kits for these figures to make them look more in keeping with whatever game genre I choose. Packet of heads, hands with weapons, that sort of thing. Also vehicles are readily available in this scale, and companies like verlinden make some awesome scenery!

I\'ll try to write the rules so that the game can be played with multiple levels of complexity. A basic set of rules could be added to with \'Level 2 rules upgrades\' to make the game more complicated and realistic, so you could pick and choose the level of complexity that suited you. I’ll probably keep it to 4 levels, with the level 4 rules covering the most complex rules for things like character advancement and pinpoint damage systems. Anyone remember Phoenix Command? Also rules for solo play might be interesting to try to figure out.

Genre wise, again if I\'m going with 1/35 scale something modern would have to be the order of the day. Historical figures are available in 1/35 but they tend to be metal and more expensive and the ranges are very limited. If I go with my own figure/existing lines or try something wacky like cardboard stand-ups you paint on or etched brass flat figure standees I\'d like to try a pre industrial steam based society but with some futuristic elements. I might not go with demons though as I think this has been a bit overdone.

Oh well, keep the suggestions coming. My brain is starting to make clicking noises and neural connections are forming as we speak.

 

[supervike]

solo play...

I absolutely love this idea!!

I don\'t know any gamers (in real life), and all my friends are definately NOT into this stuff. (they tend to look at me funny when I discuss any of it!!)

Having a solo game with maybe some sort of objective to achieve instead of just beating an opponent would be incredible.

I tried playing Warhammer by myself once, being both sides. It took a little fun out when each side knew what the other\'s strategy was. Plus, even playing as both sides, I STILL COULDN\'T win!

Anyhow, I like that idea!!

 

[Panza]

It shouldn\'t be too hard to implement some kind of race, squad or model random action chart for non player controlled characters, or maybe some type of artificial intelligence rules that will determine how they move in relation to one another. For example:

1. Leader will always move towards nearest player controlled character using half move and fire, unless wounded when they will maintain maximum range and fire.

2. Subordinates will always keep within two inches of leader and maintain line of site to the player controlled character.

3. If the leader dies the closest subordinate takes on the mantel of leader.

The above rules would work well for unintelligent characters like animals, zombies, that type of thing, although intelligent adversaries could be given orders. \'Protect the base and shoot anything in range\', or \'Scout the perimeter and call for backup if you spot anything suspicious\'. These orders could change it the character comes under fire or gets shot. These rules would, of course, be fairly advanced, and players could choose to ignore them if they wanted to play a quite basic version (level 1) of the system.

I would also like some more feedback on the type of minis people would like to see used in a new game, whether they be traditional or existing 25-28mm, 54mm plastic, cardboard standees or something entirely new.

 

[alexgrunt]

Message original : Panza
I would also like some more feedback on the type of minis people would like to see used in a new game, whether they be traditional or existing 25-28mm, 54mm plastic, cardboard standees or something entirely new.

Using 25-30 mm has a major advantage: you can use minis from lots of ranges and for terrainmakers (speaking for myself ), you can re-use the terrains with other games.

Message original : Panza
(1/35) scale has a wealth of plastic military stuff from companies like Tamiya, Dragon and Academy which are cheap, easy to convert and it wouldn\'t break the bank for me to release conversion kits for these figures to make them look more in keeping with whatever game genre I choose. Packet of heads, hands with weapons, that sort of thing. Also vehicles are readily available in this scale, and companies like verlinden make some awesome scenery!

1/35 vehicules can be used with the \"heroic 28mm\". Using the 1/35 packs is certainly very cool, but it also increases the price... Just compare with Inquisitor...

Anyway, it was just my 2 cents...

 

[Panza]

Originally posted by alexgrunt
Using the 1/35 packs is certainly very cool, but it also increases the price... Just compare with Inquisitor...

Ah but that\'s inquisitor, and that\'s GW, and they overcharge. lol

What about, for example, a box of Tamiya Russian assault infantry, all greatcoats and drum-fed smg\'s. A box of 12 of these superbly cast minis is about £10! They\'re easy to convert and there\'s so much stuff available in 1/35th that you\'d never run out of options.

But my mind isn\'t set on 1/35th, 28mm, 120mm or whatever. It\'d be silly of me to ignore what the masses want so your 2 cents is greatly appreciated, and, as you say, there is a lot of stuff available in 25-30mm.

Anybody else?

 

[ZeCorto]

Good rules

Hi Panza,
I have been suffering from the same affliction as you have just described: trying to come up with better rules for tabletop gaming. I am always stuck on the balance between realism and playability.
I like systems to have logical outcomes, some sort of realism (some sort because I like fantasy settings so reality is distorted) but trying to replicate real-life parameters can make the system too heavy and slow, i.e. boring. So far, I have been able to come up with a list of features that I want to see in the product. I hope they are useful to you and that you will reciprocate for my own use.

* Most important is the strategic value of the game, the fact that skill will always beat luck. This can be achieved with balancing units: make the cavalry powerful, then create pikemen to stop them. Skill will come from the right use of each unit type. Terrain effects should also be powerful so that good placement of units brings strong tactical advantage.

* On the other hand, a game without luck is unrealistic because alea is an element of life. And it would take away the excitement of dice-rolling. A good way of dealing with this is to include normally distributed variables (very realistic): if you roll one die, you have as much chance of a very bad result as a very good one, so it is better to roll 2+ dice, which will have low probabiliity of extreme results and high probability of an expected outcome.

* Time is of the essence: I hate to see a whole army cross half the battlefield while the other army twiddles its thumbs, then reverse the trends. Action points systems are my preferred: each unit has APs allocated, and each action costs some. Resolve the turns action by action, starting with the mini that has the most remaining ones and the of the battle will be more natural, and possibly more realistic. At the same time, noone get bored because play is simulataneous and you do not have to wait too long.

These are the main points, and I will not go on boring people in this post unless there is some form of interest in my idle musings.

Good luck in your quest, let us know how it goes.

 

[Quintio]

I would definitely be interested in a character driven skirmish game, but not so much character driven that it becomes a straight up RPG. Also, limited squad sizes would be a must (5-20 max) with each character having their own specific attributes and stat lines. For instance, in many WW2 movies and series, there was a sniper, a saboteur, a diplomat, a leader, a grunt, a reluctant soldier, a pious guy, etc. Developing stat lines that would take these attributes into account would make a tabletop game more interesting, rather than having one character or hero who is ridiculously overloaded with stats, or the opposite, and entire army of clone soldiers.
I\'m a big history buff, so I think as far as a theme goes, how about some sort of alternate history with fantasy/sci-fi elements. The tricky part would be finding a balance, the current background for 40K is just too ridiculous, but purely historical games can get boring. I was always a fan of Shadowrun (anyone remember?) but I never saw it take off. Or perhaps a game set in the future, but drawing on different cultural elements (Russian: Arctic Warbands, Japanese: Samurai with sophisticated ballistic weapons, Americans: civil war era soldiers with bionic implants...) post-apocalyptic been overdone yet?
Would love to kick around some more ideas about this...One of the biggest drawbacks to table top wargaming is the inability to customize your rank and file minis and give each one character, without filling out 6 pages of info a la an RPG...

 

[SaintRigger]

New gaming

I think what I\'d really like to see in a new game is a very opended rules set. Kinda like GURPS for minis (if such a thing doesn\'t exist). Something that crosses genres too.. think westworld/future world etc where perhaps the players can remain the same, but the enemies change
Or maybe a core set of rules, and then specialized rules for genre changes (a la gurps)



I\'d love to be able to just run out and buy a bunch of models that look cool and play with them, but have a decent balanced rule set.

I think a smaller sized game would be cool to, so squad to skirmish size. I don\'t think realism is as important as balance and playability would be.

Just some random thoughts

 

[Olov]

im making a very realistic skirmish game for the moment..its a fantasy game about vampires and stuff..im dont sayin more but soon you can find the rules on the internet

 

[Panza]

Thanks for all the input and advice.

Most of the basic details of the game have been worked out, as have details about the scale of the minis involved. I don\'t want to give out too much information as walls have ears, but I can tell you that it\'s set in a Victorian-esc period, in a fictionalised European/Mediterranean setting, uses 28mm scale as a basis for game mechanics, features small bands of characters (3-7) and the working title is \'Clockwork Odyssey\'.

I’m not going to commission anyone in particular for miniatures for the game, I’m a struggling student and money is a bit tight at the moment (ahem). Instead the basic version will probably come with cardboard standees drawn by myself. I can assure everyone however that there will be a lot of scope within the rules for using existing Victorian and some fantasy minis.

If any sculptors out there would like to produce minis based on the limited number of major and supporting characters within the background then I’d be quite happy to E-mail you the working designs for the first one.