Some questions about painting with oils

[Patyrn]

I did some searching and there doesn't seem to be much info on these questions, either here or on the internet at large.

I was hoping somebody could enlighten me.

1) I've noticed oils seem to be used over a base coat of acrylic due to their poor coverage. Do you generally just base coat with a mid tone, or do you skew darker or brighter when you know you'll be doing the highlighting and shading with oils?

2) Is the core technique for doing shading/highlighting to paint on very minimal amounts of oil then smush/blend it until it's smooth? If so, what brushes do you prefer for this?

3) Do you generally just do one highlight, wait for it to dry, then do another? Or do you do multiple highlights/shadows working wet in wet?

4) This guy does the face in oils, working wet in wet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAoOXZ_VOU&feature=g-like, but then goes on to paint the coat with acrylics. Is there a reason oils would be worse for painting something like this coat, or is it just a personal preference thing?

Thanks!

 

[Einion]

1) I've noticed oils seem to be used over a base coat of acrylic due to their poor coverage. Do you generally just base coat with a mid tone, or do you skew darker or brighter when you know you'll be doing the highlighting and shading with oils?

No, not that; this is sometimes the case but oils are potentially around the most opaque paint possible, it's just that many colours show their natural degrees of transparency (no added opacifiers like in many hobby paints).

I would generally go with a midtone undercoat, makes the most sense for most colours. Exceptions would be if I wanted a very brilliant colour, where a light undercoat (possibly even white) would be the way to go.

2) Is the core technique for doing shading/highlighting to paint on very minimal amounts of oil then smush/blend it until it's smooth? If so, what brushes do you prefer for this?

It's one of the core techniques yes, but far from the only one.

Old-school oil users amongst figure painters often stick with the "spread it out don't thin it out" mantra but painting has moved on a lot from the days when this was the norm, and even if you don't do it all the time it's often advisable to add just a little spirits* to reduce the paint from a thick paste**. Taken the full way you can thin the paint down to around the consistency of enamels and they work just fine that way, and of course at this consistency you'd use the same kinds of brushes you'd use with any fluid paint.

3) Do you generally just do one highlight, wait for it to dry, then do another? Or do you do multiple highlights/shadows working wet in wet?

Very dependent on colour, the paint you're using (both the quality and the specific paints, some being more opaque than others).

4) This guy does the face in oils, working wet in wet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAoOXZ_VOU&feature=g-like, but then goes on to paint the coat with acrylics. Is there a reason oils would be worse for painting something like this coat, or is it just a personal preference thing?

This is often seen these days, where the oils are used for their superior ability to properly capture skintones. But there's no reason you couldn't continue to paint the rest of the miniature with oils if you wanted.

*And it may require just a little - literally a pinhead of spirits mixed with a pea of paint can make a noticeable difference.
**Certain colours in the very best paint lines are so thick straight from the tube during colder weather that they're essentially impossible to spread out with brush pressure alone.

Einion

 

[Patyrn]

Thanks for the reply. Looks like I just need to get started and learn as I go. I wish there was a bit more info out there so I didn't feel so in the dark though!

 

[Einion]

Well you could certainly do that but I'd recommend asking as much as possible before you buy (assuming you haven't already), particularly so you don't spend too much - oils are an area where it's very easy to overspend. Just on the paints a single tube regularly costs 10-20 times what you'd be used to for hobby paints; and some are much more expensive than this. And although it's not essential you could do with getting a set of dedicated brushes, which could mean an additional outlay of $$-$$$.

Einion

 

[Patyrn]

Well you could certainly do that but I'd recommend asking as much as possible before you buy (assuming you haven't already), particularly so you don't spend too much - oils are an area where it's very easy to overspend. Just on the paints a single tube regularly costs 10-20 times what you'd be used to for hobby paints; and some are much more expensive than this. And although it's not essential you could do with getting a set of dedicated brushes, which could mean an additional outlay of $$-$$$.

Ah I already own a decent selection of oils, but have only ever used them for weathering. I just finished up the first coat of my first attempt at using oils. I'm very pleased with how well it went.

View attachment 17386View attachment 17387

 

[Routaporsas]

Since here is this thread, I post my questions here. Many seems to use acrylics as a bottom layer, but I assume that you could do it with oils as well. Though I suppose the bottom layers should be rather thin layer, for at least when painting on a canvas you should paint thick over thin. The reason for this is that if done the other way round, the underlying layer tries more slow than the thin top layer, and this could cause the painted upmost surface to crack. Or at least this is the case in ordinary oil painting. Not sure about this rule when painting miniatures, for the hard plastic or metal "canvas" doesn't live like paper, carton or painting canvas.

I actually tired to paint one small cloak with some old oils I found. It is actually quite fun to be able to mix and blend the colors on spot unlike in case of acrylic paints etc. but I think I used too heavy thinner in this case and those paints were a bit too old to have proper consistency.

 

[Einion]

Many seems to use acrylics as a bottom layer, but I assume that you could do it with oils as well.

Some miniaturists do paint directly onto the primer layer with the oils yes.

Though I suppose the bottom layers should be rather thin layer, for at least when painting on a canvas you should paint thick over thin. The reason for this is that if done the other way round, the underlying layer tries more slow than the thin top layer, and this could cause the painted upmost surface to crack.

Yes, exactly right. Thick over thin is a 'rule of thumb', not a hard-and-fast rule and another way of expressing it is slow-drying over fast drying, so you can deliberately violate it if you know what you're doing. Generally speaking it's more of an issue painting on canvas because of its flexibility, much less so when painting on rigid supports like panel (or a miniature).

...I think I used too heavy thinner...

Too heavy thinner?

...and those paints were a bit too old to have proper consistency.

Age alone shouldn't be a factor in whether the paints are usable, oil paints that are decades old can be perfectly okay to paint with - even 50 years and more.

Oils can stiffen up in the tube due to an interaction with the pigment but given time this would usually be to the point where they've become a solid block; basically as long as you can squeeze them from the tube they should be okay to use. However this doesn't mean they should be used straight - many oil paints are naturally quite stiff (high pigment load, lower oil content) and certain brands are deliberately formulated to be much stiffer than the norm these days anyway, so they're sort of oil-paint concentrate rather than oil paint as you'd typically buy it today. This sort of paint is intended to be mixed with oil or medium to bring it to a good working consistency.

Einion

 

[Routaporsas]

Too heavy thinner?

Well, actually poor choice of word here I kind of ment too strong substance for this purpose, for it is mainly used to clean airbrush after enamels etc. The one I used is alclad thinner/cleaner. I just thought it might be the reason (or wrong mix ratio), because the mix I made kind of dissolved the underlaying layer exposing the white undercoat. It diluted the oils, but perhaps white spirits could be better. This was really hard to fix, so I'm happy that I was just experimenting to a rather useless extra piece. Though it may also be due to the lack of experience what comes to oils and how they behave.

 

[Einion]

Well, actually poor choice of word here I kind of ment too strong substance for this purpose...

That's actually what I thought you meant, just wanted to confirm.

I just thought it might be the reason (or wrong mix ratio), because the mix I made kind of dissolved the underlaying layer exposing the white undercoat.

Yep, that's what a 'hot' solvent will do all right! You're lucky you didn't start lifting the primer, that can happen if you brush-apply lacquer thinner.

And yes, white spirit would have been better. Turpentine has some small advantages but white spirits is the ideal solvent for oil paints when used in an enclosed space, the low-odour variety is even safer.

Einion

 

[Dragonsreach]

Turpentine has some small advantages but white spirits is the ideal solvent for oil paints when used in an enclosed space, the low-odour variety is even safer.

Especially when married etc, they really protect your ears!!

 

[boubi]

Especially when married etc, they really protect your ears!!

Exactly!!! I got this experience... I was using some super glue activator, and my wife constantly complained about the smell. Since then all my solvent I tried to use odorless, if possible.

For oil painting, I have really good experience with it but sometimes it can be frustrating. The glossy effect is hard to see the real effect of your mix, you need to constantly turn the mini to see the areas without specular highlight spots.

But I have found that smoothing a NMM with oil is quite effective! making it popping out by controlling your highlights and shadows, and even adding slight mid tones.

I have also tried some flesh tones, and it seems quite effective too, adding additional highlight avoiding chalky effects, or mid-tones, shadows.

I have to experiment more, I advice advanced painters to give it a try if you have the opportunity. But it is true that oils are quite expensive, but potentially last for a really really really long time!

 

[StillLifeMiniatures]

I paint mainly in acrylics but was encouraged to get some oils to play with years ago. My first tries were awful and I didn't know how to work the oil paints. Now, I tend to do most of the painting in acrylics... highlight and everything, and then go over with oil washes to make the colors more vibrant and to get smoother transitions on larger flat areas such as on uniforms and horses. I'm by far not a flawless painter and am still learning as well but that method seems to work for me. Just make sure the acrylics are dried for a day or so or they will lift when oil paints are applied. I don't bother with oils on small gaming pieces but when I get to do a historical model or anything 54mm+, even GW tanks, I like to play with oils over acrylics.