Shael Han Questions

[crazedloon]

After a few games vs Shael Han leaves me with a few questions.

Can a model change defensive enlightenment between attacks in the same combined activation?

Can a model select a defensive enlightenment when a reactive ability targets the models, such as counter attack?

Does the Winterhawk actually produce infinite attacks with its inspire? As written it provides an attack after every attack, should that be an attack after every attack action?

How does the Winterhawks defensive aura seem balanced vs every other equivalent ability? The Zaalak for instance requires a test vs every model in range (at a lower will stat) and is a specialist, other equivalents require much more restrictive situations.

Do the Dragon Legionnaires get to check for healing vapors for each hit generated or 1 time per attack (no matter the number of hits) does this also apply for Hong Yao's infernal Fortitude?

 

[Alkymedes]

Hi, here comes my 2 cents as a fellow shael han player :

1.nope, combined attack means there is no "betweens" son you can only have One defensive insight (you chose it after results son it's a good moment to decide anyway).

2.yes, you are targeted by an attack, the origin (réaction) is not really important.

3. As writing it looks like it. It would be really broken if it were true so i'd say no.

4.it is a character, it is string but you still have to suffer that overpower in your face! If i remember correctly zalaak has a greater range.

5. My understanding given the phrasing would be : once per attack as written, so you can check once per attack and not once per damage.
For hong yao, it is written for each damage so he checks for each of them( but not for each hits. As he has resilience 2)

I'd had my question too, in a 1v1 fight including hong yao ans the blind hakar, how does blind hakar's 1 hit attack works ? Does hong yao tests for infernal fortitude or not ? (Truth is i don't get how the blind hakar works it seems weird)

 

[Mezegis]

1: Depends on if it is a combined ACTIVATION or a combines ATTACK. If it is a combined ACTIVATION, multiple models may be activating, but they can do their own thing, and if they are attacking different models, each model could choose their own insight buff. If it is a combined ATTACK, then multiple models are ganging up on one model, and all the dice are combined and rolled as one group, so you only get to chose your defensive insights once.

2: Yes, it is a separate attack, so you get to rechose your defensive insights if you want.

3: You can only benefit from an Inspire ability once, so each Dragon Warrior would be able to attack an extra time, but not an infinite cycle.

4: Winterhawk is a character and is supposed to be potent. There aren't a ton of aura's available to Shael Han that aren't Insights, so it's a welcome addition.

5: It is once per attack, so if they roll 2 strikes, no need to vapors because 1 strike will still get through. I believe that is the same for the Red DEmon as well, but I don't have my cards available to check.

6: for Alkymedes: Red Demon Internal Fortitude is for damage, Blind Hakar kills on a strike. If I roll 1 success as the Blind Hakar, I have hit you, but not enough to deal a wound against your Resilience. Then the death ability activates and the Red Demon dies. However, abilities that negate a strike, like the Pelegarth shieldwall and such, as the hit is negated, so is the death effect.

 

[crazedloon]

Thanks for the responses

1: Depends on if it is a combined ACTIVATION or a combines ATTACK. If it is a combined ACTIVATION, multiple models may be activating, but they can do their own thing, and if they are attacking different models, each model could choose their own insight buff. If it is a combined ATTACK, then multiple models are ganging up on one model, and all the dice are combined and rolled as one group, so you only get to chose your defensive insights once.

So I presume this applies for a single model getting attacked twice in the same combined activation by two separate attacks.
For example 2 union workers activate together (in the SOI of a leader which will not matter)
-the first moves to a dragon legionnaire and attacks rolling a 7 so the dragon legionnaire chooses to use the dragon legion keepers enlightenment for guard to avoid the hit
-the second moves to the same legionnaire and attacks rolling a 10 so the same legionnaire chooses the winterhawks enlightenment to explode

seems more than a little powerful, even with the "limitation" of needing to be within the aura of both models

3: You can only benefit from an Inspire ability once, so each Dragon Warrior would be able to attack an extra time, but not an infinite cycle.

this is how we have been playing it (for obvious reasons) but where do the rules actually support this interpretation?

4: Winterhawk is a character and is supposed to be potent. There aren't a ton of aura's available to Shael Han that aren't Insights, so it's a welcome addition.

It is beyond a welcome addition it is boarderline over powered. The ability to wipe out every rank 1 infantry (except unhurt union workers) in 2 inches because of the only result which does not trigger healing vapors is stupid powerful. This means the only reliable way to not lose the unit you use to attack the legion is rank 2 models (who still get hurt when the roll too well) which combined with the winterhawks inspire and the dragons enlightenment isnt actually a good solution (2 attacks with crits on 9-10 is scary for every 2 wound model)

honestly its a combo that the entire group has had problems dealing with and that includes running every other faction vs it

5: It is once per attack, so if they roll 2 strikes, no need to vapors because 1 strike will still get through. I believe that is the same for the Red DEmon as well, but I don't have my cards available to check.

How are you getting this interpretation from the written rule, unlike other equivalent abilities (like torvosh's training) it does not have text indicating once per attack or removing only a single hit.

 

[Mezegis]

In your pig example, that would be correct if you did multiple activations, but since you must do all your manuevers and all your actions at the same time when you do a combined activation, there would be no reason why both pigs wouldn't go over and combine attack the legionnaire, getting a 7 and a 10 and forcing him to chose only 1 insight.

It was clarified by Cmon when I asked that exact question about WInterhawk's Inspire and Elsis Tagil under a Howl's inspire. Inspirations can only trigger once.

Yes, it is very potent, but the 2" is measured from the dying legionnaire, so unless you have them packed in like sardines, I wouldn't expect to get more than 2 others with that check. Also, since it is a single hit, Res 2 models are effectively immune. Also, have your Goritsi not used Ravenscars? Thier ability to throw models around and break up healing mist formations is huge. Same for Longhorns and their clear a path ability, separate the Legionnaires, and then have your Ashmen duelist them. You can remove the 10 if you are scared and kill 7-9 only.

Healing Vapors: Each time this model is attacked you may make a will check 1, and if successful, ignore damage from a strike. Each time this model is attacked is another way of saying once per attack. If I attack you and roll 2 strikes, you can make your 1 check, but as you can only negate 1, one sill still get through. Combined attacks count as 1 attack, so it helps to bust through tricks like this.

Checked, and the red Demon can make the check every time it takes a damage.

 

[Alkymedes]

It does say "each time this model is attacked it may make a will check(1) to prevent any damage from this damage"
It is to say that Being hit by 5 dices in a combined attack does proc only once for One damage. If you get more than One damage you still roll One dice only...
I hope i'm Being clear, my phone is messing with my typing

 

[crazedloon]

In your pig example, that would be correct if you did multiple activations, but since you must do all your manuevers and all your actions at the same time when you do a combined activation, there would be no reason why both pigs wouldn't go over and combine attack the legionnaire, getting a 7 and a 10 and forcing him to chose only 1 insight.

Honestly I am not sure that is the way activation works, the wording on combined activation is vague. It specifically states that "All models in a Combined Activation must resolve eachstage in the same order, meaning if you choose Maneuver first,all models will complete that stage before Acting, and viceversa. " not that they perform them at the same time. If it is indeed all move all act than it makes the winter hawk that much more broken (I shall address that lower)

winterhawk, it is very potent, but the 2" is measured from the dying legionnaire, so unless you have them packed in like sardines, I wouldn't expect to get more than 2 others with that check. Also, since it is a single hit, Res 2 models are effectively immune. Also, have your Goritsi not used Ravenscars? Thier ability to throw models around and break up healing mist formations is huge. Same for Longhorns and their clear a path ability, separate the Legionnaires, and then have your Ashmen duelist them. You can remove the 10 if you are scared and kill 7-9 only.

well except that a smart Shael Han player will have his forced packed in tight, first because the legionnaire require you to be base contact to get their full effect and you need to be close for enlightenment. This means unless you are going to attack every third model in a defense line of the legion you are risking 3 models or more (if you are base to base with 30 mm and only in a single line that is 5 models threatened) if like you assert I need move all my models before attacking that means my entire unit is in position to die when I get unlucky and roll too well. How does that seem reasonable?

As to the specific units being able to deal with it, that may be true but what is every other faction without the Ravenscars supposed to do? Res 2 being immune is not all that relevant because the list of res 2 models is limited to rank 2 specialist/leaders and 1 rank 2 infantry unit.

Healing Vapors: Each time this model is attacked you may make a will check 1, and if successful, ignore damage from a strike. Each time this model is attacked is another way of saying once per attack. If I attack you and roll 2 strikes, you can make your 1 check, but as you can only negate 1, one sill still get through. Combined attacks count as 1 attack, so it helps to bust through tricks like this.

I will chalk the confusion on this ability up to unclear writing. The last sentence "on 1 or more successes it may ignore any damage from that hit" seems to imply you check for each hit.

 

[Mezegis]

Page 10 in the rule book on Combines Activation:

After selecting all the models that will activate, the activeplayer chooses which stage they will perform first, maneuveror act. All models in a Combined Activation must resolve eachstage in the same order, meaning if you choose Maneuver first,all models will complete that stage before Acting, and vice​

versa. -Emphasis mine.
This is part of why I would chose objective based Motivations against a smart Shael Han player. You cannot turtle your entire army in a 6" radius around one model and still defend Objectives I place 40+ inches apart. That said, Winterhawk is very powerful, one of the best Leaders in the game, right up there with Torvash.

Now, how do beat it: Nasier can use Longhorns to scatter the clump, Offensive Mastery to prevent any 10's from being rolled, and Shattering Strikes to go effectively blow for blow with you. Hadross and all their Will attacks, laugh at your Skull rolling, because Will attacks don't attack the defense chart. Goritsi can use the Ravenscar as I said, and their various compel and forced movement effects to drag out your important characters and assassinate them. Teknis don't have as many options, but will bomb you with Zaalak and multiwound models. Shael Han will just fight fire with fire as huge holes in everyones armies gets opened up for every Skull when I run Madam Mui and WinterHawk at you.

Now, this all varies depending on the table, set up, and how the game is played, and that's why we play these games. Can it be very good, easily, is it game breaking; not when I kill off everything outside of your little bubble of death and drop your Morale on Motivations.

 

[crazedloon]

This is part of why I would chose objective based Motivations against a smart Shael Han player. You cannot turtle your entire army in a 6" radius around one model and still defend Objectives I place 40+ inches apart. That said, Winterhawk is very powerful, one of the best Leaders in the game, right up there with Torvash.

except that the winterhawk turtle can cover 2+ objective as his aura covers roughly 12" across. Further even if you can nab a few moral through objectives you still lack 5+ moral represented in the turtle.

Now, how do beat it: Nasier can use Longhorns to scatter the clump, Offensive Mastery to prevent any 10's from being rolled, and Shattering Strikes to go effectively blow for blow with you. Hadross and all their Will attacks, laugh at your Skull rolling, because Will attacks don't attack the defense chart. Goritsi can use the Ravenscar as I said, and their various compel and forced movement effects to drag out your important characters and assassinate them. Teknis don't have as many options, but will bomb you with Zaalak and multiwound models. Shael Han will just fight fire with fire as huge holes in everyones armies gets opened up for every Skull when I run Madam Mui and WinterHawk at you.

so the suggestions boils down to
Nasier: spend a specialist point to kill 1 legionnaire a turn leaving him in a perfect position for a counter attack, reroll effective hits into potential misses in order to avoid an overpowered return hit, hope that your shattering strike does not equally chain reaction back into your force killing you prior to action. The bloodmasks make a passable solution but require you to kill the ends of the unit and leave them in clumps ready to be winterhawked
Hadross: Seems to be the only army which can reliably deal with them
Goritsi: have ranescars which I admit are a great solution but the rest of the army can't simply use will attacks to move leaders because they are behind the legion wall of models and can not be moved.
Teknis: are boned it seems? Zaalak are unreliable particularly in the face of ranged and magic which Shael Han has plenty of, and the multi wound models have the problems I already explained with the dragons aura and multiple attacking legionaries

So it seems you have a half hearted solution in every army except Hadross and Teknis, the former is the solution and the later is screwed. This assessment lines up with our game results.

Now, this all varies depending on the table, set up, and how the game is played, and that's why we play these games. Can it be very good, easily, is it game breaking; not when I kill off everything outside of your little bubble of death and drop your Morale on Motivations.

Why will the Shael Han player have models outside the "bubble of death"? Sure a few models to shut down quick runs at objectives aren't bad like Hong Yao which is darn near unkillable or the death bloom which is fast and can't be pinned down with more wounds than most bands of infantry.

 

[Alkymedes]

I agree, Hong yao is strong but he is really killable. Unlike torvash "you can't touch this".

Back to your thing, for a legionnaire to explose, it's a 5% shot given their table and willpower. There really are stronger stars for other défenses. Personally, I never played winterhawk (will vive him a try though, but madame mui is so much more to me). Plus, my advice is if you're thinking about going infantry versus infantry when playing against shael han, you ought to lose hard it is exactly what we want and what we need you to do

As a bonus I do feed you another shael han combo : winterhawk training or dragon legion keeper training plus shield of taelfon insight (which makes the shield a nice killing machine screaming " do attack me and die you communist")

 

[Mezegis]

They were not half hearted attempts at solutions, most are very real solutions that I have seen be successful on the table. I have the least knowledge about Teknis because they are the one army I don’t own, so yes, my suggestions may not be the best, they are just theorycrafted.

If you sit in your little bubble, you are not getting your objectives either, so I will take advantage of the fact there is no Round limit on these games and whittle you down from a distance. You have magic too, but our ranges are fairly equal, so if you can shoot me, I can shoot you. Also, if you have a wall of legionnaires in front, your specialists cannot move through them to get into range.

As a Goritsi player, I will gladly drag 2-3 legionnaires out of formation and kill them every turn. This will force you to come to me eventually, and as soon as one side of your lines is out of formation, the wolves will pounce, rend, and retreat. As a Nasier player, I have 3 Rank 2 specialists with very potent magic attacks. I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but Winterhawks defense chart is really just 3 things, magic defense, parry, and strikes. With Magics ability to turn all parry into strike, A: Guard is useless B: Between Elsis and Bloodchild I have improved will and a reroll on any backlash C: 4 dice can one shot him with a not crappy roll. I will happily sacrifice 2 of my Rank 2 specialists on suicide runs in to kill your Winterhawk. Heck, if you agree to not run any leaders, I won’t run any specialists and we can pretend they killed themselves off.

This whole thing is theorycrafting in a vacuum, and any tactic you throw out, I can think of a reasonable counter to it. This is where list building and player skill comes into play. If you are ever going to be in Connecticut, USA, drop me a line and we can continue this discussion on the table.

 

[crazedloon]

I agree, Hong yao is strong but he is really killable. Unlike torvash "you can't touch this".

the difference of course being that when torvash is being "unkillable" he has to trade wounds on allies around him while Hong Yao gets to simply be unkillable able to even ignore skulls.

Back to your thing, for a legionnaire to explose, it's a 5% shot given their table and willpower. There really are stronger stars for other défenses. Personally, I never played winterhawk (will vive him a try though, but madame mui is so much more to me). Plus, my advice is if you're thinking about going infantry versus infantry when playing against shael han, you ought to lose hard it is exactly what we want and what we need you to do

well if you want to talk averages than dragon legionaries need roughly 6 separate swings to kill them. Their damage chart with a keeper means you need 7+ and 7-9 needs 2 success to guarantee a failed will to kill. So this means ether specialists or a select few infantry models. Than you need to remember that 1/6 of those deaths cause backlash which kills the attacking model and any enemy within 2". Madame Mui is nice until you realize her infantry suck and she has better synergy with legionaries and winterhawk where they can get 2 swings which force enemies to explode, a far superior option than her own lotuses with a pathetic 1 attack.

As to your last statement here that makes no sense no single army should "lose hard" with over half their options vs another faction. That just is not game balance.

As a bonus I do feed you another shael han combo : winterhawk training or dragon legion keeper training plus shield of taelfon insight (which makes the shield a nice killing machine screaming " do attack me and die you communist")

Well of course the shield is in there I was not discussing a full list, he is stupid good because now when we look at the legion they kill the attacker on 4 out of 10 results and require 6 hits to kill. Seems odd that Shael Han react better than the supposed reaction faction Teknes.

They were not half hearted attempts at solutions, most are very real solutions that I have seen be successful on the table. I have the least knowledge about Teknis because they are the one army I don’t own, so yes, my suggestions may not be the best, they are just theorycrafted.

Sorry did not mean to imply you where haldheart more that I have seen those solutions used and they are not actually that great with the sole exception being mercs and hadross

If you sit in your little bubble, you are not getting your objectives either, so I will take advantage of the fact there is no Round limit on these games and whittle you down from a distance. You have magic too, but our ranges are fairly equal, so if you can shoot me, I can shoot you. Also, if you have a wall of legionnaires in front, your specialists cannot move through them to get into range.

Not every faction has ranged, or at least superior range. And just because they are in a bubble does not mean they are not moving. They have a 10 inch move/sprint meaning they can easily close the distance and shut down most stall tactics. Also one of Shael Hans best specialist Hong Yao can move through his allies to get the enemy and does so with an 8" move.

As a Goritsi player, I will gladly drag 2-3 legionnaires out of formation and kill them every turn. This will force you to come to me eventually, and as soon as one side of your lines is out of formation, the wolves will pounce, rend, and retreat.

As I have said the mercs make a passable solution able to kill 4/10 swings when they pull the legion out of formation except the legion than uses its next activation to move its formation forward recontacting the out of position models and killing your mercs for the trouble 4/10 times with twice the number of attacks thanks to winterhawk.

As a Nasier player, I have 3 Rank 2 specialists with very potent magic attacks. I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but Winterhawks defense chart is really just 3 things, magic defense, parry, and strikes. With Magics ability to turn all parry into strike, A: Guard is useless B: Between Elsis and Bloodchild I have improved will and a reroll on any backlash C: 4 dice can one shot him with a not crappy roll. I will happily sacrifice 2 of my Rank 2 specialists on suicide runs in to kill your Winterhawk. Heck, if you agree to not run any leaders, I won’t run any specialists and we can pretend they killed themselves off.

As you have pointed out the winterhawk does have a weak magic defense but 4 dice doing 5 wounds is well above a "average" roll but if you are in range to attempt that attack you are indeed trading your specialist to do a few damage to winterhawk (roughly 3 points for 4 dice) And then you get into the maneuver game where all the hawk has to do to maintain range from you is maintain 14" away from your longest attack not particularly hard without losing combat effectiveness thanks to the long range of his SOI or enlightenement effecting the actual relevant activations the infantry. And you are trading most if not all your specialist points to kill 2 points of leader.

This whole thing is theorycrafting in a vacuum, and any tactic you throw out, I can think of a reasonable counter to it. This is where list building and player skill comes into play. If you are ever going to be in Connecticut, USA, drop me a line and we can continue this discussion on the table.

I would agree it is theory craft at least as far as post go, but the reasons the questions came up is due to actual on table play where shael han is dominating thanks to for too much synergy without proper counter in some armies.

 

[JeremyRigged]

Honestly I am not sure that is the way activation works, the wording on combined activation is vague. It specifically states that "All models in a Combined Activation must resolve eachstage in the same order, meaning if you choose Maneuver first,all models will complete that stage before Acting, and viceversa. " not that they perform them at the same time. If it is indeed all move all act than it makes the winter hawk that much more broken (I shall address that lower)



well except that a smart Shael Han player will have his forced packed in tight, first because the legionnaire require you to be base contact to get their full effect and you need to be close for enlightenment. This means unless you are going to attack every third model in a defense line of the legion you are risking 3 models or more (if you are base to base with 30 mm and only in a single line that is 5 models threatened) if like you assert I need move all my models before attacking that means my entire unit is in position to die when I get unlucky and roll too well. How does that seem reasonable?

As to the specific units being able to deal with it, that may be true but what is every other faction without the Ravenscars supposed to do? Res 2 being immune is not all that relevant because the list of res 2 models is limited to rank 2 specialist/leaders and 1 rank 2 infantry unit.



I will chalk the confusion on this ability up to unclear writing. The last sentence "on 1 or more successes it may ignore any damage from that hit" seems to imply you check for each hit.

could you show me a picture or diagram of this formation?

I am trying to wrap my head around it. Specifically I am trying to determine if the pelegarth's knock back ability isn't a hard counter to the damage on overpower effect as knock back allows me to move your dragon legionnaire two inches away from me then damages the model it collided with. Depending on the formation this means my models should not be within 2" of the model that just died.

 

[crazedloon]

could you show me a picture or diagram of this formation?

I am trying to wrap my head around it. Specifically I am trying to determine if the pelegarth's knock back ability isn't a hard counter to the damage on overpower effect as knock back allows me to move your dragon legionnaire two inches away from me then damages the model it collided with. Depending on the formation this means my models should not be within 2" of the model that just died.

It is set up in 2 lines of legionaries which connect to each other. Due to this arrangement you can only move 1 model (the end one) if you wish to actually break the formation (so you get to remove 1 model a turn). You do get to knock back into the second line of models, which means you get net 2 attacks (if you wish and are using the howls inspire) on the back row and front. But you are still within 2" of both models (so will get vaped for any skulls) and the legion still gets healing vapors meaning you still only have a 1/6 chance of killing a model.

 

[Lord Nat]

Let's see, flying and leaping models go over. This wall without becoming engaged (as per Mr blacks comments on this forum). So ignore the legionnaires and kill the winterhawk

 

[crazedloon]

Let's see, flying and leaping models go over. This wall without becoming engaged (as per Mr blacks comments on this forum). So ignore the legionnaires and kill the winterhawk

except that flying and leaping models which can reach the back must start the turn within engagement range of the legion (7 inches for leapers and less for fliers who hope to attack after flying) This means that the legion can simply advance with a move sprint to lock down such wily tactics if need be. But honestly they don't need to because the leaping models do not have a threatening attack or a long enough jump (except scourge hounds) to guarantee a leap far enough to escape exploding legion. You essentially use your line infantry to risk taking out a few legion models (close proximity means you get to clip 4 models with your leap) which makes you one of the better models for getting the magic 6 swings to kill 1 model but you get to risk 1/10 explosion and a 3/10 backlash so are just as likely going to be losing the model as you are to kill a legion model.

 

[Swan]

Actually a line of Howls facing a line of legionnaires could pull the whole force apart. The knock back is not directly away, so the howl could shove the legionnaire perpendicular to her attack leaving the legionnaire isolated, and then with the inspire she will get in her attack. Since the Shield Bash is a special attack, it is done one model at a time, and depending on space, and angle of engagement it will be possible to continually spread the legion in multiple directions, and insure that Winterhawk's inspire only hits a single howl, costing 1 How for the price of one legionnaire.

 

[Mezegis]

....means that the legion can simply advance with a move sprint to lock down such wily tactics if need be.

If you are sprinting to engage me, that is putting you 6"-10" away from your starting position. Why would I not just collapse on these models and rip them to shreds while they are outside of the Winterhawk Insight? Now, if you brought Winterhawk along, I could just hit him from the flanks for a decent sized combined attack. Yes, I'd likely lose some models to the inevitable 10, but you'll be down 2 morale from the leader loss and have lost the linchpin of your army.

With alternating activations and you being limited to only moving at most, 9 guys of the same type, at some point you will leave models unprotected, then I strike at those.

 

[crazedloon]

Actually a line of Howls facing a line of legionnaires could pull the whole force apart. The knock back is not directly away, so the howl could shove the legionnaire perpendicular to her attack leaving the legionnaire isolated, and then with the inspire she will get in her attack. Since the Shield Bash is a special attack, it is done one model at a time, and depending on space, and angle of engagement it will be possible to continually spread the legion in multiple directions, and insure that Winterhawk's inspire only hits a single howl, costing 1 How for the price of one legionnaire.

You can not move more than the left most or right most front line model (depending on actual formation) because if you look at a double line of 30mm bases you can not make contact with 1 and not than be in the way to move the model (the only exception being the end most model which lacks the model behind it to pin it in). That model can also always be set up to be more than the enemies base move away to ensure it can not be picked out of the line if you wish to defend it.

This however does mean you get to slam than attack 4 models which makes them a solid choice to try and kill 1 model (though again they open themselves up for a vicious reaction on bad rolls)

If you are sprinting to engage me, that is putting you 6"-10" away from your starting position. Why would I not just collapse on these models and rip them to shreds while they are outside of the Winterhawk Insight? Now, if you brought Winterhawk along, I could just hit him from the flanks for a decent sized combined attack. Yes, I'd likely lose some models to the inevitable 10, but you'll be down 2 morale from the leader loss and have lost the linchpin of your army.

With alternating activations and you being limited to only moving at most, 9 guys of the same type, at some point you will leave models unprotected, then I strike at those.

well as I said the need to sprint is not really there, unless the shael han player is bored. As to why it isn't a great opportunity to just attack the models which have been sprinted into position to lock down your movement (if you are playing goritsi this tactic wont be used because you really can't be locked down) it comes down to the 2 factors. - The first is that the activation of the legion can easily be the last 2 for the Shael Han player so even if you wait to counter attack you are only doing so with 3 activations at most (and if you still have 3 solid activations the shael han player can just wait another turn to engage by moving to within 6" but not outside the full bubble)
-The second being that the legions own durability does not come from the winterhawk but rather from their own rules and the rank 1 leader. Winterhawk just adds to the retaliatory damage and offensive superiority of the legion so even if you attack the first wave of moved legion you are still going to have trouble actually netting the 6 hits per model to kill 1 legionnaire

 

[Mezegis]

you are still going to have trouble actually netting the 6 hits per model to kill 1 legionnaire

I am curious about your math on this. With a will of 5, roughly every other hit is a kill. Why would I need 6 hits to kill and not 2? Legionnaires can be pretty tanky, I don't dispute that, but me thinks you are giving them a bit more credit to survive 5 hits before finally falling.