Sculpting material discussion (with photo example)

[Sophia]

Hi there Coolminipeople.

I just submitted my first photo to coolminiornot a few days back. I wanted to entrench myself in the community a little more by contributing to the forums. I thought this would be a good place to discuss some sculpting stuff.

One thing in particular that is noteworthy on sculpting is your material used for you sculptures. What materials do you use for your sculpture attempts?

I have tried many different things, from ceramics to Fimo to putty, etc. Most of my experience was with clay and a kiln. Miniature sculpting is not only a departure from the norm of conventional sculpture, but the materials are quite mysterious and unique as well. After a lot of trial and error, I have my little concoction I would like to contribute, and I would enjoy hearing about your sculpting materials.

I use a mixture of 3 parts green epoxy putty (plumbers putty,greens stuff, etc.), and one part Super Sculpy. This might sound kind of strange, so I will explain.

Most people have experience with regular green stuff, in whichever form. For all of you who don’t, it is a two-part putty you mix and sculpt, like clay or plasticene. It goes hard in about 3 hours, and fully cures (becomes even harder) in 24 hours. Super Sculpy is easy to find, and is a clay-like material that you harden with heat. Sculpy will never harden on its own, without heat.

When you mix the two together, you get a very interesting and enjoyable result.

The two biggest complaints about “green stuff” putty is its working time, and its cost. I really enjoy green stuff, as it is durable and semi-elastic, and not fragile. I always wished I had more working time however. Mixing one part of Super Sculpy with three parts green stuff gives you this extra working time. It almost triples the time! In fact, I find myself waiting for parts to dry so I can keep sculpting lately. When you mix your putty like this, you should wait for the sculpted area to dry overnight, before continuing on your sculpture. It will end up slightly less hard than regular green stuff, but the difference is so slight that you will hardly notice.

I like to call this mix “super green stuff”.

For armatures, I sometimes use a 50/50 ratio, but I make sure not to use too much oil to lubricate my mini while sculpting it. I always use olive oil to lube my tools, so they don’t stick. I stopped licking my tools after reading a lengthy warning on my epoxy putty once, and I will never lick again. When using a higher ratio of Sculpey, the putty becomes porous, and starts to absorb the oils. When it has too much oil in the mixture, it will never fully cure. Just make sure to keep you lube to a minimum when dealing with a higher ratio of Sculpey. The 50/50 ratio will really save you money on those larger sculptures.

So, I hope you enjoyed my contribution. Please comment on your own mixtures or materials.
An example of the material I have used can be found on this green I submitted a while back. You might notice the color is slightly lighter than regular green stuff. The super green stuff mixture gave me some nice results. Post a comment and let me know what you think. Thanks again.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/88114



Sophie.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Welcome to the forums, Sophia.

I have no experience whatsoever regarding sculpting or materials, so I can\'t help you there.

That said, I think you have done a great job on the sculpt. He seems a bit bloated to me, but I think this is because he is different from my (and I stress my) \"classic\" idea of pestilence. The more I look at him the more I like him

Again welcome to the forums and I look forward to seeing your future work!

Jabber

 

[Einion]

Hi Sophia, over the years I\'ve tried Fimo, Milliput, Sylmasta, Duro/Kneadatite, A+B, MagicSculp and various blends of these.

I didn\'t get on with Milliput but you can certainly get good results from it and I really didn\'t know anything about sculpting at the time so I couldn\'t really judge. Still consider it too hard to mix and too messy to mix and it\'s a little brittle for a single sculpting putty, but great to carve.

I tried Sylmasta next and found it a lot nicer to work with - easier to mix and less sticky on the tools, although the reduced adhesiveness meant it also didn\'t stick to armatures, resin and hardened putty as well either which could be a problem. Harder than Milliput generally, so not so good to carve.

Got a sample of Duro from a friend and immediately loved it for doing small details because of the good adhesion and waxy consistency. Now prefer to always mix it as per Bill Horan\'s recommendation - weighted towards yellow about 7:3 - even when blending it with other putties. Wish it was sold as two separate strips though, I\'ve never had any or handled any that was fresh enough that the join wouldn\'t need to be cut out and discarded.

The A+B I got was also a sample from a friend so I don\'t know which brand, it had very good adhesion but was a little too soft for my taste. I don\'t know whether it was a faulty batch or reacted funny to my body chemistry but it took ages to cure - well over 48 hours!! Dried hard as a rock though.

When I first got MagicSculp a few years ago it immediately became my favourite putty as it had a great mix of working properties overall, similar to a blend of Kneadatite and Sylmasta without the hassle of having to mix both - easy blending, not too sensitive to variations in resin/hardener proportion, good adhesion without being so sticky it clung to tools, decent working time (usually a little over two hours for me), works well with saliva as a lubricant, slight flexibility so thin sections aren\'t too fragile (although I tend to blend it with Kneadatite if I want to be careful, or just use Kneadatite straight if I need to be really cautious, as with suspended hair strands). Things I don\'t like about it are the very slightly translucent surface when doing fine details, although you can get used to this, and there are easy ways of colouring it if you feel the need and you can\'t get any of the coloured varieties.

You can reduce the proportion of hardener in the mix but I think a better way of slowing setting time for MagicSculp is by blending in some polymer clay; I\'ve tried this with Fimo and it worked really well. I\'ll try it with Super Sculpey soon; speaking of which I\'ve had some for a while and want to use it more because of the long working time and the excellent results you can obviously get with it but it\'s just too soft for the way I\'m used to working so I\'ll need to adapt or do something to alter this. I\'m thinking of blending it with a small amount of MagicSculp, thinking it will stiffen up as the MS sets but still require baking/boiling to set (and should end up slightly tougher than it is pure, might shrink less too).

Einion

 

[Frustrated Father]

Welcome to the forums.

Myself, I\'ve got little experience with GS and none whatsoever with anything else, the only thing I use it for is filling gaps and maybe some simple stuff.

That said, I find this an interesting topic and am tuning in so to speak as I\'m about to take a jump at sculpting myself.

 

[Sophia]

I wish I had a forum like this to check three years ago when I started! Ugh. All that trial and error, and I got lots to look forward to.

I hope people keep contributing to this thread. I may have a few more things to pick up on my next trip downtown, as far as materials to try.

 

[green stuff]

Welcome to the forum Sophia. Your mini is pretty impressif by it\'s amount of details.

For my part, after being a big fan of milliput, I moved on to green stuff. I find it easier to manipulate. I do use plastic sheets to make blades and other flat surfaces.

Concerning curing time, I find that green stuff fits my way of working : two hour sessions, otherwise I go blind . I use a lot of armatures (wire and wire mesh) to have a sturdy frame and to define volumes. I also work by building up layers.

I look forward to seeing your futur work.

 

[Naukhel]

Sophia, I said it as a comment on the sculpt, and I\'ll say it here, too. Consider, and consider seriously, writing an article on the subject. An articulate and educational post, and a darned fine piece of work posted.
@Einion: Same thing. Write an article. Or another article.

I\'m just beginning to do a bit of tinkering with sculpting, myself, and this kind of thing is wonderful. Every perspective adds that much more knowledge.

 

[Corvus]

Hey Sophie welcome to the forums!! :bouncy:

I\'m not really into sculpting so I can only comment on this miniature from a painter\'s point of view. I think this is a hard mini to paint, simply because of the many different surfaces. But nonetheless I think an experienced painter can make a masterpiece of it! I especially like the (slime?) drippings on the sword!

I\'m already looking forward to your next piece of work!

And by the way: your avatar is great!

 

[Sophia]

Hehe, thanks for the compliment Corvus. Thanks to all who have contributed as well.

I agree with your style Green Stuff. I usually sculpt in two hour sessions as well, and I like the ability to do another layer over a recently hardened layer that same day if I feel like it. I find the Sculpey mix just gives me some added insurance when I am a little scared of a particular areas outcome.

I think I really enjoyed that long curing time while learning how to sculpt, and this is perhaps the biggest reason for beginners to use the mix.

I use a little plastic card as well. That stuff is pretty great. Dremels up like a dream!

Of all the materials I have experimented with, I have never tried Milliput. Its got a cute name though, so I should give it a shot. Milliput sounds like a very small \"putt\" on the metric system. Is it very similar to green stuff?

 

[minimaker]

Hi Sophia,

great work on the sculpt. Good design and good execution. One bit of advice: it looks beter if you sharpen the edges and deepen the grooves in areas like the hands area a bit. That way you can reduce the chance of loss of details and definition because of paint or casting/mouldmaking.

There are more people using Polymer/GS mixes though a more common combination is Fimo/GS. Probably because of availability over here in Europe though. I learned the mix from Werner Klocke.
I\'ve used it and while I like it I find that for most purposes I\'m good enough with pure GS and can\'t be bothered to make the mix. Even if it\'s easier in some cases like flowing drapery and such. An armature of a tough material is recommended since it doesn\'t have the strenght of GS (I don\'t use copper but brass or steel for that).
A 50/50 sounds like it should actually be baked. It\'s only the GS that forms a steady matrix and I\'m not sure what it will do in a vulcanizer.It\'s basicly a hard sponge with polymer clay filling the gaps. So it\'s better to make sure the clay is hard too. I\'ll have to check with the people at 1listsculpting on this.

By the way, a putty oven should keep you from having to wait overnight. I mixed about 3 Fimo to 7 GS and this hardens within 15 minutes in the oven. The Fimo isn\'t baked then but is locked well enough by the cured GS to continue working. Here is an instruction on making these ovens.

As to the putties I use:
- Green stuff: for general work. Mixes can vary from 30yellow to 70 blue to the other way around depending on what I\'m doing. More yellow for stickyness and little details, More blue for more feedback and a rubbery feel (for clothing for instance).
- Brown stuff: for areas where I want to sculpt like with green stuff and be able to file and sand afterwards. Mechanical bits, sharp edged details. Etc. I often mix in some green stuff to improve adhesion and behaviour (less waxlike).
- Milliput: for areas where I want to be able to scrape and file afterwards. I hardly ever use this pure but always mix in green stuff. 30% and upwards. This makes the material stronger (beter to survive a vulcanizer), keeps the putty together (pure milliput tends to \"crumble\" when you try to smear it) and generally makes sculpting easier for me. I prefer this material over brown stuff since the colour makes it easier to see what I\'m doing. Brown stuff is mostly used for small areas where it\'s too much hassle to make a Milliput/GS mix.

I have other putties around but hardly use them. When I\'ve used up my Milliput supply I\'ll probably switch to Magix sculp for the same use.

Since you profile mentioned you being interested in doing this professionally I\'d recommend joining us over at the 1listsculpting yahoo maillinglist. It\'s dedicated to miniature sculpting and you\'ll find many professionals there. I\'ve also noticed that several companies seem to use the list to get new sculptors.
This is the address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1listsculpting/
Most sculptors there use epoxy putties. If you are ok with French, the creafigs forum is also a nice one since there are many polymer clay miniature sculptors over there. Can\'t think of any that use the mix though. http://www.creafigs.com

If you ever need to get something cast professionally, let me know and I\'ll send you addresses of casting services in Canada.

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[Sophia]

Wow! Thanks mimimaker. Your reply was very encouraging.

I actually just did a run of 20 resin copies of my Lord of Pestilence. I am a pretty good moldmaker, and these particular castings turned out very well. I am curious about those companies that professionaly cast however. Perhaps I could make use of them if my demand is greater then my supply?

I am definitly gonna pick up my Fimo again, and keep experimenting with it. It seems like so many more people use it for minis then I had expected. I will try out some of yer tricks, and let you know how it turns out. Great rundown of all those materials as well.

Ill check out those links as well. I am using my sculpts to pay for student loans, but it might be cool to work for a company too!

I\'ll post my new mini (a big cool flying guy) when its done, and I\'ll make those hand grooves extra deep, in honor of your reply. Thanks again.

 

[minimaker]

Origineel geplaatst door SophiaI use a little plastic card as well. That stuff is pretty great. Dremels up like a dream!

Since you want to go professional I\'d recommend staying away from that stuff. It will not survive the \"common\" mould vulcanizing process and you\'d need to use RTV moulds or special (more expensive) rubbers. I only use it to make moulds and special tools. I tend to use either brass or putty sheets where I\'d otherwise use plastic card.

Putty sheets are cured sheets of a Green stuff/Milliput mix which can be sanded and cut. They are a lot harder than plastic card and less easy to cut with a knife. On the other hand, they survive mouldmaking and can be carved very well. Here is a [/quote]demo.
And here is an example of using plastic card for moulds: steam wagon

Its got a cute name though

Hehe, I think you\'re the first person to ever say that.

Is it very similar to green stuff?

No. It feels more like clay than chewing gun. It becomes rock hard after curing and can be sanded and filed. It can be diluted with water. More brittle than GS. Tends to get your tools and fingers a bit more dirty since it doesn\'t have the coherence of GS (it comes apart easier sticking to everything). Oh, doesn\'t stick that well to metal armatures (use GS for a first layer).

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[freakinacage]

hello there! love the details on the sculpt! i generally use gs when sculpting although i also mix gs and miliputt. this can be great to sculpt with as it makes the gs a little less elasticy and more clay like. i would use it more but i don\'t like mixing milliputt as it sticks to your hands. i would recommend trying it

 

[minimaker]

Have you noticed it\'s usually the sandy component that stick most? What I tend to do is to first mix the GS and press it flat. I then take some of the grey component of Milliput, flatten that and put the sandy stuff in it. Then I wrap the sandy stuff up like in a bun and wrap all that up in the GS. After that I start kneading. It gives less mess, though you\'ll still end up with some Milliput on your fingers.

 

[wyrmling_x]

Hello and welcome, Sophia! Truly, you have some serious talent.

I\'ve already PM\'d you, though my questions to you have been answered here. I was encouraged to know that SS and GS can be successfully mixed, as I seem to have a surplus of SS laying around.

Also, a question for minimaker (or anyone else who knows), from what it sounds like, Brown Stuff and Milliput (mixed with GS) are essentially the same. Is there one clear \"best\" putty between the two, or are their properties that make them differ too much for such a comparison, leaving it to personal preference?

Another question or two: Where might one buy Milliput in Ontario, Canada? I\'ve been having a hard time finding distributors. And is the CMON quantity of GS much better in terms of value than just straight-up purchases from GW?

 

[Sophia]

Ugh. Sorry I havent replied to my PM\'s, but the \'confirm email\' function isnt working for me. I\'ll try again tommorow.

 

[minimaker]

Origineel geplaatst door wyrmling_xIs there one clear \"best\" putty between the two, or are their properties that make them differ too much for such a comparison, leaving it to personal preference?

Some differences:
- The mix is cheaper but takes more time to mix and dirty fingers.
- Brown stuff is cleaner to work with
- The colour of the mix makes it easier to see what you do.
- Brown stuff feels more like GS when sculpting. Just a tad softer.
- The feel of the mix can be varied depending on the ratio of GS to Milliput.
- I find the mix to be easier to carve.

If find brown stuff to be easier when I need to do sculpting while it\'s soft and smaller areas. It\'s also good to add to GS when I want sharper details. I prefer the mix when I want to do larger areas and really want to be able to file, sand and carve.

Another question or two: Where might one buy Milliput in Ontario, Canada?

Check scale modelling stores. A&B, Aves, Tamiya epoxy putty (not the tube filler), Magic sculp are all good alternatives.

And is the CMON quantity of GS much better in terms of value than just straight-up purchases from GW?

GW is a reseller too. The putty is produced by Polymerics in the US. The quantity sold by GW is 9\" while the quantity sold in the boxes/rolls is about 36\"/100grams. The later tends to work out a lot cheaper.

 

[minimaker]

Hi,

just to add some info. I\'ve just been discussing this with a few sculptors.

One problem of mixing GS with a polymer clay is that the total strength of the compound is less. This can result in deformation in the vulcanized rubber mould making. This means that when you mix in a lot of Fimo you should bake the sculpt (after the GS is hard). Werner Klocke and Stefan Nieheus mix in at a ratio of about 1:5 and their sculpts don\'t need to be baked.

Bye, Ming-Hua

 

[provoke_me]

doesn anyone have any WIP pictures to share?

 

[E-Arkham]

Bump!

It\'s not much of a WIP shot (and the pic is a little on the dark side), but it leads up to my question concerning mixing epoxy putty types:

This over a wire frame; the brown joints are obviously brown stuff. The arm \"bones\" were proving a problem. It was difficult to get brown stuff to stick to the wire in portions longer than the lengths I used for the joints. That brown stuff is less sticky than green stuff is one of the qualities that I prefer, but in this case it was working against me.

Unfortunately, my green stuff is getting old and I didn\'t want to use it unmixed for fear of ending up with partly cured microchunks on the surface. In an attempt to circumvent this, I mixed two parts green stuff with two parts brown stuff and one part Sculpey. The resulting \"Olive Stuff\" worked beautifully, combining the workability of brown stuff with the stickiness of green stuff as well as extended drying time due to the Sculpey.

Personally, I find \"Olive Stuff\" absolutely ideal to work with, but I\'m curious if any sculptors have mixed this blend before (or one like it), and what quirks it might have that I haven\'t yet learned.

Kep