Rustoleum Primer Problems

[Chrispy]

Okay, bought 2 brand new cans of primer- white and auto grey. I've tried priming like I have done for years and the white comes out a glossy mess that nothing sticks to. The auto primer has the exact opposite- it's just dust that can be blown off even right after spraying. Is the Rustoleum brand even worth using anymore? I've read elsewhere on the 'net that they changed their formula because of EPA regulations. I've sprayed and the primer has sucked so bad I've had to wash the batch of minis I want to paint 3 times now!
So, is anyone else still using Rustoleum or is there something better?
Lemme know. Soon!

 

[sivousplay]

I have been using their Painter's Touch Primer (white) for some time and really like it; however to your point, the last can I used seemed to have issues ... it seemed thinner and had less "grip" than previous cans. I haven't primed anything in a few weeks, but if another can from this recent batch has the same issues, then they may well have screwed up the formula for our needs. I'll let you know ... I've got some priming sessions planned for this weekend.

 

[Zab]

I'll second painters touch. I used to use that before switching to Vallejo surface primers and still do for minis that will be abused (ie handled lots or played with by youngsters). White and grey primers are great in that range. Thier flat black works a treat too.

 

[Bloodhowl]

I've had no issues with my Rustoleum Automobile Primer. Where did you buy the stuff and how old is it? Another brand I use that works well is the Krylon indoor/outdoor primer.

 

[Chrispy]

I just got them a few weeks ago from a hardware store (did not keep receipt, like an idiot). I picked up another can today at Kmart- since Rustoleum is the only spray brand they sell. I also have some Valspar primer I was using on my art boards.. may have to try that. I wanted to go with automobile grey for some future projects, but with the grey plastic minis, it's tough to know if you're covering anything.

 

[Chrispy]

Well, the new can seems to be working okay- it's just weird that I would have bought 2 bad cans of the same manufacturer, but totally different products. I may have to try another brand for the automotive primer, as now my dealing with Rustoleum are shaded..

 

[Zab]

It's why I left Krylon clear matte. Intermittent frosting. After years of good times and complete trust I was betrayed by my constant friend...
WhY?
View attachment 20915
WHY?
View attachment 20916
WHY?!
View attachment 20917
Now I know how the Emperor felt. ~sigh~

 

[Chrispy]

I use either Testor's dullcote (SERIOUSLY- SELL IN BIGGER CANS!) or any of my artist sealer stuff, usually the expensive Grumbacher stuff for charcoal/ pastels, because it's around. I haven't had any problems with these. I did experience the dreaded frosting of a clear coat, and now I test it on a black piece of paper before I spray anything. One alternative I thought of was to use the airbrush- but that's a bit time consuming.

 

[Zab]

Yep. I have since switched to Vallejo for my sealers. airbrush or brush. I 've never been betrayed again.

 

[Jbickley00]

My solution to the above issues:
Get an airbrush, prime with gesso, seal with golden polymer varnish. No cans=fewer issues.
I suppose Vallejo primer and sealer will work equally well, I just don't have any experience with them.

 

[ced1106]

You need to tell us *which* Rustoleum primer product you used. It's also possible that the store kept it on the shelves too long (happens at hobby stores with hobby spray primer and hobby paints), or the primer was stored incorrectly (eg. left out in the sun or cold on a palette). Here's the one I use.

 

[boubi]

My solution to the above issues:
Get an airbrush, prime with gesso, seal with golden polymer varnish. No cans=fewer issues.
I suppose Vallejo primer and sealer will work equally well, I just don't have any experience with them.

One quick question, why do you seal after Vallejo primer? I personally airbrush black then white for highlight then paint, never seal...
With what do you seal? Acrylic based matt varnish? or enamel type?

 

[Jbickley00]

Sorry boubi, I don't seal the gesso-that defeats the purpose. I paint the base layer over the gesso, then seal it with a gloss coat for an oil wash, then after that's cleaned up, I spray a Matte varnish and paint up from there. If I am airbrushing, I prime, thn do the airbrush work, then seal to protect the airbrush layer. Also the paints I use, especially or airbrush tend to be glossy, so the the sealer takes that down as well.
Obviously when the mini is done, I seal it with varnish: one layer of gloss, two layers of matte. I use golden polymer varnish which is acrylic based. Finally, if things need o be lossy, I will re gloss over the matte.

 

[Einion]

I paint the base layer over the gesso, then seal it with a gloss coat for an oil wash, then after that's cleaned up, I spray a Matte varnish and paint up from there. If I am airbrushing, I prime, thn do the airbrush work, then seal to protect the airbrush layer. Also the paints I use, especially or airbrush tend to be glossy, so the the sealer takes that down as well.
Obviously when the mini is done, I seal it with varnish: one layer of gloss, two layers of matte. I use golden polymer varnish which is acrylic based. Finally, if things need o be lossy, I will re gloss over the matte.

So. Many. Steps.

Einion

 

[kathrynloch]

In the model horse hobby my friend had Rustoleum and Krylon not play well together and almost ruined an expensive model horse. Also, a few years ago, Tamiya primer and Rustoleum didn't get along (that was ugly too).

Zab - white frosting can be caused by high humidity (she says who sprayed sealer right after an afternoon thunderstorm in southeast Texas. On a black horse no less. That turned out well - if I had been going for an appaloosa!) If you spray in better conditions another layer or two should get rid of it. But USE A TEST MODEL FIRST!!

I've had cans go bad half way through. Bought bad batches, humidity - as I said - kicks my behind. A test model saves soooo much heartache and hard work.

Chrispy - one primer I've started using, when Tamiya was banned from the US for a brief time (label issues) is Duplicolor Sandable Primer. I get it at O'Reilly's Auto Supply or Autozone. After working with Rustoleum and Krylon primers and then Tamiya super fine primer. This stuff gives Tamiya a run for it's money in light, even application. Which is surprising. But it totally rocks and isn't as expensive as Tamiya.

I get white and gray. Love the stuff. And it plays nicely with Testors Dull Cote (cheapest place I've found it is scalehobbyist.com but I haven't compared prices in awhile.)

Other than that, I've used Vallejo Spray Matte Sealer that I got from thewarstore.com. But while very nice, it's not as forgiving. Hope that helps - I really think you'll like the Duplicolor Primer.

 

[Zab]

I wish it had been as simple as humidity. Krylon changed something in their clear matte and it just reacted at random - humid, not humid, hot, cool, dry, wet nothing mattered. I suddenly couldn't get consistent results with them any more. I had to make the switch to something more reliable. It was also due to only being able to use spray can for half the year here in Canada (stupid winter). Now I have full control and choose when to spray or even brush it on. You might say Vallejo "sealed" the deal... sorry that's the promo producer part of my brain writing again. So many clichés, they just slip out.

 

[kathrynloch]

hehe - no worries. Hey, I'm in southeast Texas, on the Gulf and Louisiana line. Aside from the hurricanes, they don't call it the armpit of Texas for nothing. I have to really watch it 10 months out of the year because the humidity gets so stupid around here. There have been times I've commandeered the extra bathroom and set up extra ventilation because it was too humid or hot or icky to spray outside.

So we end up jumping through all of these hoops to figure out what makes a certain things tick - and we get it lined out - then the makers decide to change the formula. Why? Sometimes they can no longer get a certain ingredient but many times I am certain they do this just to see who will hoot, holler and scream the loudest (office pool, you see). It goes hand in hand with my feelings over "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

So, they'll probably screw up my Duplicolor primer soon too.

 

[Chrispy]

You need to tell us *which* Rustoleum primer product you used.

Rustoleum clean metal white primer and clean metal grey automotive. I got them both at a hardware store and just the other day ran around looking for other options. What I found is there really isn't any. Walmart sells Rustoleum and Krylon- but only the color white, not a primer. Kmart has only Rustoleum, and Lowe's has Valspar, their knock-off brand. Even though I could order online, we all know that cans have to be shipped by truck since they can't go on planes.
In the end, I kinda pulled a fast one on Kmart- I bought a can of white primer which seems to be doing better, took back the crappy one and exchanged it for a new on of the grey. I still have a crappy can of dust. Maybe I need to find one of my fellow art students so they can shoot it with a shotgun on a canvas and call it art...

 

[Jbickley00]

So. Many. Steps.

Einion

Yes, but I am okay with that. Airbrushing the basecoat saves a lot of time, and I really like the look of the oil wash, but that requires a gloss coat, which doesn't tak paint well, so a matte coat goes over the gloss coat. I oil was early, which is different than most, but I like the way the oil wash brings out the detail. So the pattern is thus:
1. Prime the miniature ( I use gesso).
2. Base coat with the deep colors.
3. Gloss coat.
4. Oil wash.
5. Matte coat.
6. Paint.
7. Gloss coat.
8 matte coat x2.
If I am really honest, I sometimes also do a second oil wash, which adds three steps. If you really want to go the distance, cleaning up after an oil wash is its own step as well. This makes 13 steps wich proves that painting miniatures is a harde addiction to confront that some other process (j/k).
The reality is that this not an inordinate amount of steps for anyone using an oil wash technique. The final varnish process works for me, because I use my minis in games and the gloss coat offers better protection, but matte offers a nicer finish.
Also, in terms of time, all the airbrush work listed above can be done on a table top quality mini in about ten minutes. Which is next to nothing. Taking more time on a display mini means the process takes about twenty minutes. (though admittedly this does not factor in drying time.). Taking into consideration the fact that I typically structure my painting so that I am airbrushing more than one mini at a time, this makes the process even less time consuming ( it takes about the same time to varish ten minis as it does one.
Realities to how much time a dent layering job takes, or even edge highlighting, this is mostly meaningless, by far the most time consuming part of any miniature is the painting process.
Some painters even do layers of varnish between painting sessions and to seal in pigments.

 

[Jbickley00]

Rustoleum clean metal white primer and clean metal grey automotive. I got them both at a hardware store and just the other day ran around looking for other options. What I found is there really isn't any. Walmart sells Rustoleum and Krylon- but only the color white, not a primer. Kmart has only Rustoleum, and Lowe's has Valspar, their knock-off brand. Even though I could order online, we all know that cans have to be shipped by truck since they can't go on planes.
In the end, I kinda pulled a fast one on Kmart- I bought a can of white primer which seems to be doing better, took back the crappy one and exchanged it for a new on of the grey. I still have a crappy can of dust. Maybe I need to find one of my fellow art students so they can shoot it with a shotgun on a canvas and call it art...

You mean that's not art? Seems to me that buckshot and spray paint on board is a fine example of a mixed media technique.