Route to go for Science-Fiction miniatures 28mm/32mm?

[CavCom]

Long time Coolmini or not fan, first time poster.

Don't know if this is the place to put it, or the miniatures company discussion thread, but as a miniatures fan with delusions of grandeur, I'm attempting to start a line of miniatures, and would like to know what is the best option to select a scale for a science fiction skirmish games. 28mm or 30/32mm?

I see there's many people who appreciate their miniatures game, and also quite a few people also directly in the miniatures business on the forums themselves, so I thought I would ask for their advice.

The mainstream sci-fi games/minis products I know off are (feel free to add more or correct me)

28mm
Warhammer 40k
Rezolution
Mercs
Infinity

30/32mm
Urban Warfare
Eden
Sedition Wars

The pros of doing it 28mm is that the majority of people have existing armies of the same size, so they can mix and match as it where, and don't have to buy in a new scale. It's the biggest market for science fiction games, so there's a chance it could be more commercially viable product.

The pros of doing it 30/32mm is that I believe it's much easier to paint, supposedly more detailed and less deformed than 28mm and can afford to fit more detail. I admit I'm a fan of the bigger, more detailed scales, as the quality of such companies like Studio McVey and Dark Sword Miniatures can attest to.

I'm just wondering, anybody see any advantages over one over the other? What are the cons? What's people's opinion on this or which do they prefer? Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[PegaZus]

Since you state that your purpose is for skirmish games, I'd go with the scale with the most game-oriented lines, so the 28mm. Perhaps the details won't be as fine, but they're for gaming and don't have to be completely beautiful works of art. So that's my vote.

 

[Ruleslawyer]

I always though GW stuff was more 30-32 actual scale. The nominal scale isn't always the same as actual scale. It seems a common problem as everyone wants their figs to look "epic" in that scale. I know I have plent of 15mm stuff that is really closer to 18-20mm scale as well.

So the question is- Do you mean nominal scale or actual scale?

 

[freakinacage]

if we are going down that route, i shall point out that 28mm or 32 etc isn't technically a scale

 

[IdofEntity]

Rules/Freak: Does it matter so much as long as they all fit on the correct sized base? Actual height tends to be a very small issue in wargaming, right? Bases seem to be the souce of almost all rule-based arguments when it comes to size.

If you're a bigger fan of the 30/32mm sized miniatures because of the detail then I'd say design them that way. I don't know much about pricing miniature molds and whatnot, but I'd expect you'll end up paying more per mold and pass on those costs to the customer. So increased price for increased detail, versus lowered price for lowered detail.

 

[TreManor]

It was my understanding that Sedition wars was roughly the same size as 40 K???

 

[Arne]

I have some AT-43 (Red Blok) that is slightly larger than the average GW stuff, with somewhat smaller heads and more realistic proportions. I might be biased because I'm more familiar with GW stuff, but larger miniatures seem a bit unnecessary to me. It feels like they don't really add anything to the game. I haven't tried painting mine though (they were prepainted).

I'd say GW stuff is around 1:59 -2+4 and more chunky than the slightly more realistic AT-43 stuff that's about 1:56 or so. I think the GW stuff, though smaller, is more effective because of the simple chunky colorful shapes.

A larger scale might be nice for skirmish type battles with characters and no vehicles. I'd soon get bored of these special characters though, and when playing, you soon become blind to how your units look anyways. Lighting is not always the best over gaming tables either.

 

[Ruleslawyer]

if we are going down that route, i shall point out that 28mm or 32 etc isn't technically a scale

Its a scale. The divisor is just implied instead of explicit. It's typically the height of a man standing from ground to eye level. That will be about 5'6". It makes it a little less accurate since not everyone agrees on that exact number.

 

[freakinacage]

Its a scale. The divisor is just implied instead of explicit. It's typically the height of a man standing from ground to eye level. That will be about 5'6". It makes it a little less accurate since not everyone agrees on that exact number.

it's makes the assumption that the average human height equates to 32 or 28 mm. human height varies according to time period or region, so isn't that helpful. the whole point of a scale is that you can easily work out lengths, as the ratio tells you. how would you work out the length of an m16 in 28 or 32mm?

 

[Arne]

I'm probably 5'6 from ground to eye, about average here in Sweden. Makes me wonder if shorter people-kinds perceive miniatures differently...

I tried to work out the 1:xx scale of a couple of GW minis, but I got pretty wild results. Proportions/chunkyness also plays in a lot when it comes to how large a figure looks and how well it fits together with others.

With GW's stuff, we never see regular weapons, cows, or a... Volvo. We're mostly dealing with alien reference points, so it rarely becomes important to know the exact scale. We're dealing more with issues like... does this weapon feel chunky enough? Does it fit with the group? Personally I have a bit of a fetish scale though. I love doing line ups and comparisons, analyzing how many people would really fit into that ship on Star Trek.

Anyways, speaking of 15mm scale... does the 15mm stuff generally stay close to that height, or has it creeped up, like '28mm heroic'?

 

[freakinacage]

I'm probably 5'6 from ground to eye, about average here in Sweden. Makes me wonder if shorter people-kinds perceive miniatures differently...

good point - i am 6'. i don't see myself as tall though. as a result, anyone shorter is 'short'. it's an interesting point as our own height must affect our thoughts on the matter

 

[supervike]

I'm 6foot 3, but only because I wear 8 inch heels. (they make my ass look delicious)


Oh, and I voted for 30-32, but I'm not sure what I was thinking.

 

[CavCom]

Wow, thanks for the replies!

Hmm, that's a lot to think about. Although I guess I should clear it up some of the confusion and state that in this case scale represents level to the high of the eyes. So yes, GW's 'heroic" 28mm the total height is more akin to 30-32mm, and 30mm closer to 32mm and 32mm closer to 35mm respectively.

Although the number samples are nothing to base anything by, I think I'm safe to say that 28mm leads in the polls because most people play one of the major games in that scale, while there's a distant lack in the larger scale. It might be a safe bet to assume that it would be easier to find people in the market for that scale, and that if I have a good product, it might be enough numbers to make it viable.

However, there's another point to think about. I intend for games to be skirmish based, sort of like Malifaux, MERCS, Anima, etc, where you require a relatively few models (usually anywhere from 5-10), aiming to eventually get to a stage to have starters with about 5 figures in it.

The minis would sort of be "mini"-characters, sort of like Sedition Wars, Malifaux, etc, where even the basic "generic" trooper mini has some personality or individualism, which seems more appropriate to a more larger scale.

But anyway, enough of my pondering at the moment. Regardless of what path I take, I'm still interested in what you, the reader, would like to see in what scale, and why. Or just what sci-fi mini you play or collect, (or ones coming out that you intent to play!)

 

[Chern Ann]

Commercial viewpoint: If you're starting small, go GW scale - not having a full range will hurt you starting out unless your figs can be mixed in to the most popular line out there. If you're going for a full line sculpt before launch, then going GW will still help you unless your style is radically different, in which case it will no longer matter.

 

[CavCom]

Thanks for the advice from the top dog! Most likely the style and imagery won't fit too well with GW's, but more probably on par with Infinity, so maybe more on the Infinity scale? Hopefully I plan to get to have 5 minis done before releasing anything, but it's going to be a long wait, as the sculptor I'm very much keen on has a wait several months long!