RAGNAROK, fair or not?

[wevin]

Has anyone of you already tried to play RAGNAROK? I played it a few times and I must conclude that it is somewhat unfair. Especially models with a high resistance seem to be almost unbeatable because of the absurd rolls that are required to even inflict a single wound.

I played with my Alahan knights and charged into a unit of Griffin templars led by Arkhos, the result was somewhat surprising as the entire Griffin unit was wiped out and my knights came out of the fight without even a scratch on their armour. Every time the result was the same and if the Griffins got lucky than they were able to last another round in combat.

Of course that\'s only my opninion, please share your experiences or opinions on this matter.

 

[Carolus]

Well, I haven\'t played Rag\'Narok yet, but studied the rules, and I think I can say that the most powerful units currently in the game are:

- the Alahan mounted Knights
- the Orcs on Brontopses
- the Wolfen/Devourers

because they are all \'large models with more than 30 points\', resulting in more-than-one-wound models...

Furthermore the mounted knights are pretty devastating when they are charging, but the point is that you should try to get avoid being charged by cavalry... Rag\'Narok isn\'t a game where you play a simple \'full frontal crash\'; you\'ll definitely need tactics and maneuvering...

It\'s a bit like Clan War (the wargame set in the Legend of the Five Rings universe); I once played a game, and I hade 2 units of 12 figures each and they were all 2-wound models... Now these units \'ate up\' more than two times their army points of opposing troops, because the other ones were all one-wound models.... But we were playing along the length of the table, and I was playing with strong defensive (read: armoured) troops, while the other player was playing with highly maneuverable units, but because of our table layout it was hard for him to attack me in the flank or the rear...

So you have to think, the Alahan knights, with high speed and high armour (and pretty high initiative) are very strong troops for the moment, but don\'t they cost around 60 points a piece? Now think they have to oppose a mass of Kelt regular troops (says at 9 points a piece)...

So you would have 1 knight vs. 7 figs... Now these figs have roughly the same initiative, and the Kelts have Furie Guerriere, it could get more interesting... Especially if you would have something like a unit of 3 knights versus 3 units of say 6 barbarians... Rougly the same points, but the cavalry would be heavily outnumbered...

Remember, it all depends how you use your Alahan Cavalry; do you use it as a \'hammer\' to smash the big line of troops; or as the \'Scalpel\' which outflanks and attacks Etat-Majors and Wizard Councils? As it is heavy cavalry I would guess you would use it as a \'hammer\', but remember, don\'t be amazed that the opponent starts throwing cheap expendable troops at your expensive troops \'just to tie them up\'....

(Think of the Mid-Nors summoning Moissonneurs which can fly quickly; or the Acherons summoning Pantin Morbides so that you MUST attack them because they are \'in your way\'....)

So don\'t try to judge Rag\'Narok by the two-point models alone; you really need a 1500-2000 pt army to really assess it correctly, and this means that this is an army with \'a couple of personalities\' and not \'every personality ly side has outfitted with loads of spells and artifacts...; you need troops, troops, and more troops...

And while a 25-cavalry figure army might easily get you to 1500 points, it could mean that you will be opposing some 150-200 goblins/dwarfs one day... (or 80 Griffon fusiliers)... The statistics will then be on the \'outnumbering side\'...

I guess that\'s why it\'s time that more \'regular/veteran troops\' are released... Because it will be a major change that as soon as people start playing with units with like 20 minis that the game will come to its \'true feeling\'...

Carolus

 

[el pimpo]

Yup, I heard somebody say that every army will get their own regular troops with different weapon options (like the dirz clones).

This would be great, because I don\'t really like identical mini\'s in the game... (now if I could just learn sculpting somewhere for conversion! lol )

 

[Partycrasher]

wevin lets just keep playing CONFRONTATION, at least until i have enough points to test ragnarok

 

[wevin]

I agree with you partycrasher, but I would like to react to what Carolus said before.

You said that outnumbering these heavy-hitting troops might help, but the problem is that most of these cheap troops have a strength of about 3-5. The roll required to inflict a wound on a knight is a 7 I think ( don\'t have the rulebook with me, I\'ve lent it to partycrasher ). So imagine that these troops decide to put everything in attack (risk of an open defence though! ), then they still have to hit everything, hope that the knights won\'t defend against their attacks and if then there are still some succesful attacks left, they have to roll a 7 on a D6!! to inflict a SINGLE WOUND on a model that has two.

I\'m actually pleading against my own army here, but I don\'t really want to win a fight by simply sliding my unit against the enemy. I know you can somewhat limit the damage by playing a bit tactical, but it even then your opponent has to be a complete moron, you have to be a tactical genius and you need Lady Luck by your side.

wevin

 

[el pimpo]

Well I think it might be a matter of chosing the right unit to fight them then. Every army has a unit with a decent to high strenght value. So I think it might be a matter of getting the right tool for the job. (though I have it easy with my wulfen, who don\'t come under FOR 6...)

Maybe magic would also be a good thing against it. If your opponent shows up with a regiment of 10 of those knight, your jus bound to have something in your list that will be able to damage it... (altough it would be very easy if you knew excactly what list your opponent would field, wich isn\'t always the case...)

 

[Carolus]

Hey, I perfectly agree that for example 200 points of \"Gobelins avec Boulets\" (with FOR 5 for 8 points and Furie Guerriere) will have a harder time than 200 points of \"Guerrier Keltois avec Hachoirs\" (with FOR 6 for 9 points and Furie Guerriere). And I dare not think about the poor Pantin morbides (with FOR 3 at 5 points) to scratch you well-armoured knights...

But wasn\'t Furie Guerriere particularly nasty in Rag\'Narok (didn\'t it allow you to roll 2 attack dies and choose the best one)? Because then those Kelts might be quite dangerous and tip the odds rolling 7\'s a bit more in their favour... (Because I thought that the Wolfen with Furie Guerriere AND Tueur Né are about the most dangerous opponents in the Rag\'Narok game...)

But have you tried how your cavalry fares against equally costly troops? For example, your cavalry versus Trolls or Minotaurs (these last ones can be hired by anyone because they\'re Mercenaire)... Because think about it; if you see the opponent playing with a unit of say, 5 minotaurs), what would be your approach to deal with that unit? It\'s a bit like your cavalry (fast, heavily armoured, really strong, more than 1 wound)...

So you see, I\'d rather deal with such a unit with a unit of \'similar power\' instead of having to use the \'outnumber\' trick...

And yes, if you happen to be Tuubje, you need several Ladies Luck Just wait when his brontops troop is finished and then you can try out a \'clash of cavalry\' (in both Confrontation and Rag\'Narok rules)

And el pimpo is right, we should delve in our library full of spells and miracles too to see what nasty stuff you can do... Wasn\'t there a ritual which allows you to cast \'pieces of difficult ground\'? That should be helpful against any fast-moving troops... (like those fog-type spells that are used against shooty dudes...)

Anyhow, feel free to experiment and keep on playing!

Carolus

 

[Tuubje]

There is also a fireball spell, that does damage with a force equal to the distance between caster and target. It\'s maximum range is 25cm

The orques have a annoying spell to fling someone in the air.

And don\'t forget you have access to \"orders\" like counter-attack and contre-charge

 

[el pimpo]

Yup, I once remembered my irix the fury trowing out a FOR 24 deluge d\'Idaboath against Sophet Daras. You just had to wait for him to fail a mana recovery, so he couldn\'t counter.

My friend was already wondering why I chose to fight with here rather then cast spells, untill he realised what I was up to. lol

So when you face irix and she is saving gems, you\'ll know what to expect...

 

[el pimpo]

Oh damn, I forgot to make a point:

If you do something unexpected, you\'ll be able to take anything down, you just need to know what your options are (altough I had to admit that he knew that I was taking irix, and I knew he was taking sophet...)