Quick Fire vs Counter Charge Timing

[Oreaper]

In a recent game of Nights Watch vs Free Folk an interesting interaction came up. During the Nights Watch activation, a unit of ranger hunters used "Swift Strike" after an attack against a unit of free folk raiders. The free folk player wanted to play "counter charge" with a nearby unit, but due to simultaneous actions, the nights watch had priority with their "swift strike" ability. The hunters then retreated a few inches back because they resolved the after attack action trigger 1st. The nights watch player wanted to then immediately resolve their "quick fire" order after retreat, and here's where the question comes.

How does the timing in this instance work? Does the free folk player resolve "counter charge" BEFORE the "quick fire" order in the after attack window, or does the nights watch resolve their "quick fire" order in the new timing of after retreat then allowing the free folk player the charge. Both players felt that the free folk should be allowed to resolve the "counter charge", the question became when to do it.

 

[titfilou]

You can find the answer in the rulebook. When a trigger happens players declare their effects, starting with first player. Then they resolve it starting with first player. If while resolving an effect an new trigger occurs and effects are played then they are resolved if possible.
In your example (that may have been treated a few threads ago) the free folk player knowing about swift strike and quick fire should not play counter assault)

 

[Oreaper]

You can find the answer in the rulebook. When a trigger happens players declare their effects, starting with first player. Then they resolve it starting with first player. If while resolving an effect an new trigger occurs and effects are played then they are resolved if possible.
In your example (that may have been treated a few threads ago) the free folk player knowing about swift strike and quick fire should not play counter assault)

So how would this play out from a timing perspective? Would the freefolk player declare the retreat and then the free folk player declare counter charge...only they will have to wait until after the shots from quick fire are resolved? or does the fact that a new timing arises from the quick fire negate the free folks ability to even use counter charge?

I suppose the question is then do both players play cards during the timing window before resolving the effects in priority order?

also i must note that i cant find out anywhere in the rules/FAQ that state you carry out subsequent effects without interruption. Is there a place that in the rules/FAQ that you are referencing that I missed?

 

[titfilou]

The timing is :
>Hunters performs a melee attack. After the attack, thi is the windows for Swift strike and NW player declares he plays it. FF has a chance to declare playing something on the same trigger - counter assault
>>NW resolves Swift strike and make a retreat. The end of the retreat is a trigger for Quick fire.
>>> NW resolves quick fire and make a ranged-attack.
>>FF resolves Counter assault

I think it's true, the rulebook doesn't expressly states you resolve things as soon as it can be resolved. For me, it has always been a question of common sense but as I say one's common sens starts where someone else common sens ends. But - i think this is in a followed-up question of a thread of this forum - CMON Michael Shinall indicated that the Hits generated by Counter Strikes are done when Misses are determined, so when the attack dice roll is reputed done.

 

[CMON Michael Shinall]

1. Effects tied to triggers are declared first by player whose turn it is, then their opponent.
2. Once all effects are declared, they are then resolved in alternating order (in the case of 3+).
3. Events caused by these effects can further generate additional trigger windows for other effects as well.

In the example asked in the original question, assuming the unit with Swift Strike belongs to the player whose Turn it is, Swift Strike would be declared, then Counter Charge. Swift Strike will resolve first, then Counter Charge.

 

[Oreaper]

1. Effects tied to triggers are declared first by player whose turn it is, then their opponent.
2. Once all effects are declared, they are then resolved in alternating order (in the case of 3+).
3. Events caused by these effects can further generate additional trigger windows for other effects as well.

In the example asked in the original question, assuming the unit with Swift Strike belongs to the player whose Turn it is, Swift Strike would be declared, then Counter Charge. Swift Strike will resolve first, then Counter Charge.

Thank you for the response, the other question is if the quick fire resolve from its newly created retreat window before the counter charge?

 

[Lucus Aurelius]

He answered the Quick Fire question when he referenced the "Example asked in the original question". He took Quick Fire into account, as it was mentioned several times in that questions and provided the response that "Swift Strike will resolve first, then Counter Charge." followed by any other triggered abilities in alternating order as he stated in the 2nd bullet.

The active player could have triggered 3 or more abilities after the melee attack, an in accordance with bullet 2, they would resolve 1 of those effects and then it would be the other player's turn to resolve an effect. That is how it gets resolved in "Alternating" order.

 

[Dbayer79]

Swift Strike and Quick Fire are two different triggers. Like the rules say, you resolve all effects for a particular trigger beginning with the player who’s turn it is. The attack by the NW player would trigger Swift Strike, the the FF player would be able to declare Counter Assault from the attack. Quick Fire is triggered by a retreat and if the FF player managed to engage the NW unit, can’t be used, as the unit is now engaged.