People are fools

multimeltaman

New member
Hello!
I\'m very surprised to see that people who seemed to be honest decided to make money from some ignorant people. Making people pay for some tips free-access on the web is really shameful. I hope that you will either take out the non-authorised contet or give some money to the authors. And finallyif you went bankrupt and need money, just ask people to make donations.

Cheers,
R.
 

maxime day

New member
exactly!

if some people want to buy this, they\'re free, but the artists made these tutorials for free!

\'I \'m really angry and astonished because my first message has been deleted! shame on you !
 

Fizl

Secret Crocodile
Originally posted by multimeltaman
Hello!
I\'m very surprised to see that people who seemed to be honest decided to make money from some ignorant people. Making people pay for some tips free-access on the web is really shameful. I hope that you will either take out the non-authorised contet or give some money to the authors. And finallyif you went bankrupt and need money, just ask people to make donations.

Cheers,
R.

I\'ve got to say 2 things here - 1. people aren\'t \'forced\' to buy it, but if they want to buy the pdf compilation they can. 2. The articles are still available online if you want to read them for free.

I can\'t comment on authorised/unauthorised use of the articles, as I don\'t have one myself and don\'t know what communications are made, and I think the rules of the site say something about giving licence to use stuff that is put on it (probably not in those words but you get the idea)

Shaz
 

darklord

New member
Originally posted by multimeltaman
Hello!
I\'m very surprised to see that people who seemed to be honest decided to make money from some ignorant people. Making people pay for some tips free-access on the web is really shameful. I hope that you will either take out the non-authorised contet or give some money to the authors. And finallyif you went bankrupt and need money, just ask people to make donations.

Cheers,
R.
se

people are offered the chance to donate - its called subscription yet it\'s suprising how many people use this site and its vast resources (not just data but other members advice) without been able to stump up a few dollars for a years worth yet complain about revenue earners (like this or ads) that are needed to help pay for bandwidth,etc. If authors have a problem with their content being used then i\'m sure they can bring it up personally. Im sure most if not all posted them to help others and at the end of the day thats this sites biggest asset (i think) - its users and their willingness to help others improve this hobby.

I will now get of my soapbox, its just people expect everything perfect but if it helps keep the site going is it not a good thing? Even the dedication of the mods wont pay for the costs
 

skeeve

New member
Originally posted by multimeltaman
Hello!
I\'m very surprised to see that people who seemed to be honest decided to make money from some ignorant people. Making people pay for some tips free-access on the web is really shameful. I hope that you will either take out the non-authorised contet or give some money to the authors. And finallyif you went bankrupt and need money, just ask people to make donations.

Cheers,
R.

Do you have an article there? Then I don\'t understand what\'s your problem. If some of the authors will feel that his rights are infringed in any way they will solve this without you, don\'t you think?

There is an $11 membership on this site.. I didn\'t notice you, personally took advantage of subscribing. Since you, personally, chose to ignore it then you righteousness is rather misplaced. You know, before advising others what they should or should not do how about starting from yourself
 

uberdark

New member
amen skeeve.

some of us have been here for a while and well i just find that a bit disheartening.

get on a bandwagon somewhere else if you are going to start up a thread like this.

honestly take a crap.
 

Sand Rat

New member
Actually, as one of the people who has an article in the book, lets look at a little trip down memory lane here.

A while back an unscrupulous individual took it upon himself to compile the articles from this site and try to sell them on Ebay as his own work- leaving all our names, and other information in the finished work. He was contacted by a couple of the people he ripped off and pulled the Ebook he had assembled - and then the same material in the same format appeared again on Ebay -

So, in a discussion thread about the issue it was put forth that we the members of CMON should use the work that we have put in to the articles to help with the cost of the site - CA contacted me and to the best of my knowledge all the other individuals who\'s articles appear in the book and obtained our permission to put the work together.

So, methinks someone owes an apology to at the minimum Chern Ann.
 

OrkyDave

New member
I was one of the people who bought the illegal version off Ebay, but that is how I discovered CMON in the first place.

I think I will pass on buying it again as

1. I pay my subscription thus doing my bit to help keep the site running.

2.All of the articles are available for free anyway

3. I have already paid for them once through the ebay book!

Just curious though, what will happen when newer articles are submitted? will these be send as pdf\'s free to the people who have already bought them?
 

Duende

New member
Just restating this and making it a little more noticable in case certain individuals miss it:

So, in a discussion thread about the issue it was put forth that we the members of CMON should use the work that we have put in to the articles to help with the cost of the site - CA contacted me and to the best of my knowledge all the other individuals who\'s articles appear in the book and obtained our permission to put the work together.

Just so it not missed....

Well, OrkyDave, in buying the \"illegal\" version, you were just lining the pockets of some stranger who probably couldn\'t give a rat\'s behind about minis, while buying this version helps support the site, and gives you a version accessible offline.

And nobody is forcing anybody to buy it, so stop whining about it (not directed at OD but anybody in general). It\'s not like you can\'t access the articles without buying it. Sheesh, who\'s holding the guns to these people\'s heads?

:rolleyes:
 

Sand Rat

New member
Ok, my ears are ringing-

Heres the original thread if anyone is interested - its about 5 pages long - http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=16747&page=1
 

maxime day

New member
some french painters didn\'t gave their permission....

and what a surprise, some Terms and Conditions have been add today...

look what the problem :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Sand Rat

New member
Somehow I don\'t think thats right - Chern last time I checked was a Lawyer, and methinks he would cover his bases there - he did say in the thread I linked that he was using permissions he had recieved for both the annuals as well as new permissions he had recieved for the newer works.
 

OrkyDave

New member
Hey Duende, I have my sherrifs badge, and I pay my subscription every year! (currently into the 2nd btw!)

I am not endorsing the illegal version at all, just mereley stating that if it was not for that appearing on ebay then I would never have found this site. The illegal version was bought and paid for well before I knew the articles were free, not a fat lot I can do about it now is there? ???

I also personally feel that changing the terms and conditions AFTER the articles were submitted and a day before the book was released just plain sucks. Some great artists have pulled their galleries for lesser things than this, and I for one just hope that we dont lose some truly great pieces and members over this.

And EVERYONE could not have been consulted on this, or certain contributors would not have been so upset by it. (and rightly so in my opinion, if they wanted to volunteer their articles for free, what gives anyone the right to profit from them without permission?- even if it is for a site as cool as this one!)

Anyway, whats done is done. I just hope it deos not end up doing more damage than good. I think Chern ann now has to put a tick box disclaimer type thing on new articles submitted, letting the articles author choose wether or not they authorise theur submissions to be used to generate a profit for CMON.

By doing so without authors consent (which it appears HAS happened) this version is no better than the illegal one as the same principles apply, regardless of where the profits go. Every one of those comments and angry posts in the thread regarding the illegal book have to apply here to this version too. Same thing, just a different person profiting.

My opinion, You may not like it but I am still entitled to it and stand by it.
 

mathieu

New member
Originally posted by steelculthe did say in the thread I linked that he was using permissions he had recieved for both the annuals as well as new permissions he had recieved for the newer works.
Apparently one author wasn\'t aware his permission had been given. Not a huge deal really, that kind of things can happen. Only when it was discovered it would have been fair from Chern to delay availability and settle things with Cyril instead of keeping on selling the book as is until the matter is indeed discussed.
 

OrkyDave

New member
Sorry, meant to add, that if the permission was sought and given, then there is no problem, but judging from certain contributors reactions, I can\'t see how it was.
 

skeeve

New member
Originally posted by OrkyDave
Sorry, meant to add, that if the permission was sought and given, then there is no problem, but judging from certain contributors reactions, I can\'t see how it was.

If this happened then this is, indeed, a problem. Two things has to be considered - 1) whether it happened intentionally or not and 2)whether the author insist on pulling his article off.

This is an electronic media not \"real\" paper book; changing the layout of this book should be incredibly easy
 

OrkyDave

New member
@ NSA -lol he he, yeah, you could triple your money like a GW ltd edition!

@ Skeeve- I have only been here for 18 months or so, but I would bet every last penny in my pocket that it certainly was not intentional. As you say, ebooks are easier to edit (and also a lot cheaper than recalling and reprinting physical paper copies.)
 

Chern Ann

Only when they're green
Old Terms of Service:

18. You give us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, revocable at the instance of CoolMiniOrNot, sublicenseable (through multiple tiers) license to exercise all copyright and publicity rights, in any existing or future media, known or unknown, over the material or User Data displayed in Your listings. CoolMiniOrNot agrees to remove images submitted to CoolMiniOrNot and surrender this license if you submit your request through the proper automated form (i.e. clicking \"Remove Image\" from the Your Account section of the website).

New TOS:
18. You give us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, irrevocable, sublicenseable (through multiple tiers) license to exercise all copyright and publicity rights, in any existing or future media, known or unknown, over the material or User Data displayed in Your listings. For the purpose of this Agreement, \"User Data\" shall mean all information (if any) submitted by You, (the \"User\") to CoolMiniOrNot with the exception of trading data, credit card numbers, checking account numbers, etc.

The new TOS change affects only submitted images to your gallery. The previous TOS allowed you to remove your image and we would remove it permanently from our system. The new TOS is put in place so we don\'t have to worry about multi-server backups, derivative works like databases etc. Once it\'s up, it\'s up forever (at least in theory, we don\'t have enough space).

CMON always had the non-exclusive right to edit, reproduce, sell or otherwise package whatever is submitted to us, otherwise we would not be able to resize images, display your pictures, display any articles, put up banner ads, edit forums, moderate etc.

For our past stuff like the CMON annual, we needed to get artists to submit high res pictures, so notices go out for inclusion (if you don\'t respond, you don\'t get included, pics are too low res).

For the ebook, an effort was made to let everyone that was being included know, and only include those people who responded, although technically, we didn\'t need to do so unless we needed some additional input (like real names, for example). We have not surrendered the license over any of the articles to date.

The ebook is a response to articles hosted on the site, costing bandwidth and time to edit and moderate, being compiled and then sold without creditting the authors.

The moral of the story here is, if you absolutely don\'t want to see CMON getting anything at all from your work, DO NOT POST HERE. If someone wanted to buy it, I\'d happily sell a CD for an archive of all our forum messages. We\'ve never represented ourselves ever as a non-profit organization of any kind, nor is this some kind of commune. We don\'t accept donations, period.

NOW, as folks who\'ve known me for years are aware, I\'m a pretty prickly bastard when it comes to wild allegations and snide remarks like this, especially by woefully ignorant idiots.

Anyone who has a strong issue with this, I suggest you write to me, but consider the free pass on the public forums used up.

multimeltaman, if you feel the ebook is of no value to you, that\'s fine. But calling everyone who got it a fool, especially people who post here, has crossed the line. If you don\'t agree with me, please take your listings down and leave the site.
 

Yetie

New member
I dont pay at the moment because i can\'t paint at the mo and therefore can\'t use the full range of things offered by the site. However when i do start again i will pay for the plain fact that this site has helped me get better and understand the hobby better. And for the very small fee (thats optinal you dont have to pay) i think it is good to support something that is mutualy supportive :D
 
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