Need Brush strokes advice

[WorkingStiff]

Been paying more attention to how I paint.
I always make sure I always brush in the same direction and us thinned paint. Some questions on techniques:

When laying down a stroke, should I move the wrist instead of the fingers holding the brush ?

To achieve a smooth texture, should I only lay down one stroke of paint at a time? Will a second follow-up stroke over the same area cause the first the stroke of paint to become rough? I\'m wondering if I\'ve developed a bad habit of laying down paint to0 fast and rough by stroking the brush in several quick little strokes to cover an area with paint.

I assume also it\'s always best to lift the brush at the end of a brush stroke, right?

 

[Equus]

Hrm...well for me, I tend to use either my wrist or my fingers, depending on the area to be covered.

...wow...that sounds bad. I mean when painting. Yeah.

Anyway, for the laying down the paint part, I think it depends on how quickly you do it and if the first layer starts setting before the second stroke. If it\'s started to dry, you\'ll run brushstrokes through. Are you having problems with brushstrokes and the paint not self-leveling?

For the end of the brush stroke, it kinda depends. Sometimes I just continue the stroke right off the mini. When I load my brush too much, I end up getting a little pool of paint at the end of the stroke sometimes if I lift the brush off. But overloading the brush is a bad habit I have anyway.

Good questions! I\'m looking forward to hearing from someone who\'s a far better painter than I.

Aloha!

 

[Wolf_Fang]

i use my wrist to stroke it (wow that does song dirty! lol) any way.... as four doubling back on the stroke (also dirty) i find it all goes on what your looking for... altho i ifind doubling back dont hurt at all.... ass for lifting after the stroke (why does this topic sound so dirty?) i find it depends on what your looking for and the size.... if you just brush by instead of lifting you may (and it may be wanted) get thin thin lines of that colour protruding past...... really its all a matter of what your comfortable with and what your looking for hope i could help

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
I always make sure I always brush in the same direction and us thinned paint.

Okay, right off you don\'t want to do this exclusively. You\'ll get less visible brushstokes if you vary the angle slightly from stroke to stroke, in a sort of mild cross-hatching effect. You may not be able to do this for certain shapes and maybe doing NMM on one facet of a blade but in general it\'s a good idea as it help avoid paint building up ridges as one stroke\'s texture reinforces that of previous ones. If I\'m working patiently with very thin applications I might use even little random wiggles with the tip of the brush every now and then, especially on fabric or another irregular material so experiment and see.

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
When laying down a stroke, should I move the wrist instead of the fingers holding the brush ?

Ideally yes, in practice at the size we paint you probably don\'t have much choice, especially on details, it\'ll probably almost all come down to finger motion.

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
To achieve a smooth texture, should I only lay down one stroke of paint at a time? Will a second follow-up stroke over the same area cause the first the stroke of paint to become rough?

It might. Depends on the drying rate of the paint you use, the absorbency of the paint/primer underneath, the dilution of the paint, the temperature and the humidity, the amount of paint you lay down and to some extent the size of brush you\'re using. This is one of those things you kinda get a feel for, just moving along as the local conditions demand. Lots of experience is the best way to develop this so paint as much as you can and pay attention to what works and doesn\'t work.

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
I\'m wondering if I\'ve developed a bad habit of laying down paint to0 fast and rough by stroking the brush in several quick little strokes to cover an area with paint.

You can do this (well I sure do) especially when laying down basecoats, but in general I would advise you work across a surface in a controlled manner, bearing in mind the point I made first. The closer you get to edges, fine details and so forth the more precise and slow you need to work generally speaking.

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
I assume also it\'s always best to lift the brush at the end of a brush stroke, right?

Pretty much, yes.

Einion

 

[WorkingStiff]

Originally posted by Einion

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
I always make sure I always brush in the same direction and us thinned paint.

Okay, right off you don\'t want to do this exclusively. You\'ll get less visible brushstokes if you vary the angle slightly from stroke to stroke, in a sort of mild cross-hatching effect. You may not be able to do this for certain shapes and maybe doing NMM on one facet of a blade but in general it\'s a good idea as it help avoid paint building up ridges as one stroke\'s texture reinforces that of previous ones. If I\'m working patiently with very thin applications I might use even little random wiggles with the tip of the brush every now and then, especially on fabric or another irregular material so experiment and see.


Ahhh.....That\'s the kind of painting nuance I\'m looking for. Thanks!

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
I\'m wondering if I\'ve developed a bad habit of laying down paint to0 fast and rough by stroking the brush in several quick little strokes to cover an area with paint.

You can do this (well I sure do) especially when laying down basecoats, but in general I would advise you work across a surface in a controlled manner, bearing in mind the point I made first. The closer you get to edges, fine details and so forth the more precise and slow you need to work generally speaking.


That\'s the trick, then, to keep the brush moving fast enough for the stroke
to go smooth and straight, but slow enough to lift off before running into another detail. Do I have that right?

 

[TAB Studio]

Magic wash helps
one part future floor wax and four parts water.
Also if you use the mid tone color with the magic wash as a thin, thin wash after your highlighting stage it helps level the paint.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
Ahhh.....That\'s the kind of painting nuance I\'m looking for. Thanks!

No probs.

Originally posted by WorkingStiff
That\'s the trick, then, to keep the brush moving fast enough for the stroke
to go smooth and straight, but slow enough to lift off before running into another detail. Do I have that right?

How fast the brush tip is moving is a relative judgement I guess, there are people who paint better than I do that paint faster than I do so I\'m certain your reflexes/motor skills come into it (part of what we see as talent I\'m sure). Just to give you some idea I once saw Raul Latorre doing a painting demo for Vallejo at World Expo in Glasgow. The lighting sucked, he was explaining what he did and showing the steps so there were distractions and constant interruptions (and he also painted it sort of down near his lap which is probably what most amazed me at the time - I have to hold something detailed about 6\" from my nose to be able to paint it accurately) but at the end of it he had a competition-level face painted No exaggeration here, I saw the finished result up close and personal because he gave it to a friend of his who was in my old modelling club and *@\\%* if it wasn\'t better than anything I could do!

Bottom line is to find what works well for you. I think it will probably come down to finding the mixture of paint type, consistency (q.v. your additives thread) and technique that will naturally work for your brush control and painting speed.

I would suggest using the best brushes you can afford BTW, as someone here said a few weeks ago I think, good brushes won\'t paint the figure for you but they won\'t hold you back the way a cheaper brush might - curved tips on nylon brushes for example are a definite handicap for painting generally, although they do have their uses - and you get better paint flow from Kolinsky or sable than from synethetics.

Einion

 

[airhead]

Einion, I think you nailed the problem.. Good brushes and properly thinned paints and leaving brushstrokes should not be a problem.

Switch to a good sable brush (Winsor & Newton Series 7\'s are the best, but there are lots of very good ones - W&N Cirrus and Reaper\'s Black Handled Master series) .

 

[WorkingStiff]

Originally posted by TAB Studio
Magic wash helps
one part future floor wax and four parts water.
Also if you use the mid tone color with the magic wash as a thin, thin wash after your highlighting stage it helps level the paint.

I had a \"Eureka: moment this week painting. I\'ve know about magic wash, and used it for the last 2 years--Problem was, I only used it to thin paints as a wash. I thought for some reason it was only suitable for that. After reading elsewhere on this forum how painters used it to thin thier paints all the time, I tried it----and Shazam!!! I never have had such nice, smooth coats on my minis before as I do now! The results were like night & day! What a rush seeing those clean, smooth, layers. I feel like making a bumper sticker to say: \"Stop clumpy paint jobs on miniatures. Use Magic Wash TODAY!\" I\'m a little slow on the uptake, but when something like this technique finally lights the candle in my head, it gives me hope that I can be better. I\'m a convert now, for sure.

And Winsor & Newtons, numbero sevens, Oh Yeah. Been using those babies for several years. Switching to them made a big difference.

BTW, are the Vallejo brushes as good as W & N\'s? I read they use the same \"Kol\" (however your say-it/spell-it) animal sable.

 

[airhead]

WStiff, glad that we could be of help.. thicken your skin and post some work up for us to discuss. After we get through, we\'ll buy you a drink at the bar.

 

[twjolson]

I was just thinking of the whole wrist vs. fingers thing. You should try and use the fingers always. Although I\'ll be the first to say that it\'s tough to do, it\'s so natural for me to pull the brush with my wrist rather then the fingers.
Anyways, your finger muscles have a much finer control to them then the large bulky muscles of the wrist. This is based on what I heard from a surgeon. I tried using my fingers more since then and it\'s alot better. I find that my strokes are much more controled and smooth. But again, it\'s very unnatural for me to use finger controls, so it\'s going to take some getting used too.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by airhead
Switch to a good sable brush (Winsor & Newton Series 7\'s are the best...

The question of the best brushes came up in another thread too so I think I\'ll start one asking for opinions.

Originally posted by twjolson
Anyways, your finger muscles have a much finer control to them then the large bulky muscles of the wrist.

Good point.

Originally posted by twjolson
But again, it\'s very unnatural for me to use finger controls, so it\'s going to take some getting used too.

Try eating with chopsticks for a while

Einion