My attempt at SENMM

[slannpriest]

I painted this up and was pretty happy with the results. But when I took it to the store and showed peeps they didnt know what they were looking at. Some of them agreed it kinda looked like a horizon when I told them what it was but noone really felt it was right. So I need some help refining my technique.

 

[G I B B O N]

Actually it does look like a horizon of some sort. I think you should paint it along the blade, not across it.
BTW, is it a magical water banner?lol
Looks transparent.

 

[Klute]

From the pic it looks like the painted face is facing up so would reflect all sky and the oppisite side all earth.
Like GIBBON says,even when the flat of the blade is \"vertical\" I think it should run along the blade.Only a large flat sword perectly upright would show a horizon.

 

[Astonia]

Hm, looks like a good start, but you need to smoothen your transitions. Also remember that this is a 2-D technique, and therefore it loses a lot of it\'s magic on a 3-D object. Both NMM and SENMM looks much better in photos than irl. They can of course look amazing irl as well, it\'s just...ah, you get it.

 

[slannpriest]

yes it is a magical water banner....that took a long time. I probably did like 15 versions some transparent some painted with lots of input from the online community before I got it to a point where someone without any prodding would be able to tell what it is. So youve actually given a big compliment

Now about the sword. DOPE!!! your right. If understand correctly you guys are saying I should paint one half the earth color and the other sky?

Does it still get the dark line of the earth part along the middle of the sword just slightly past the white highlight that is the exact center?

What I want to make sure your NOT saying is one entire side should be sky and the other side earth because in that case it wont look like anything.

 

[Klute]

If I remember right if the face you are painting is tilted more than 5 degrees it will show only sky or earth.
The side of the sword here should only show sky.The oppisite,earth.
Less than 5 degrees it will show both.
You can of course get away with a bit artistic liscense.

 

[douglasgreen]

Love the banner...

....no advice about the sword though!The model looks good too,the lance etccheers

 

[slannpriest]

So do I still make a dark line at the horizon of the earth?

Since the middle of the sword crests it would be highlighted white and then right next to that start with the dark of the horizon and shade to light?

 

[Ritual]

Since the sword is angled so that one side is slightly facing the ground (that is the side we don\'t see in the picture), that entire face will reflect only earth and the side we see in the pic will be all sky. No horizon will be seen reflected in the sword. (At least that is what it seems like in the photo, but you can easily check that for yourself)

 

[Klute]

Heres a rough shop for you,

 

[slannpriest]

that looks good klute. How did you determine the colors. It doesnt seem to follow any of the rules Ive read about.

could you explain the theory behind it.

Ive read all the SENMM articles and none of them cover what you did there.

 

[Ritual]

You\'ll need to know something about how light is reflected if you\'re going to do good NMM. There won\'t be articles for every situation you\'ll stumble upon.

 

[slannpriest]

there may not be an article on every situation but there are rules/guidelines on how to do any surface.

Since it was basically my first attempt I forgot about the 5 degree rule.

So my inexperienced opinion is that one half of the sword face would reflect sky and the other would reflect earth.

Possibly the earth reflecting side could reflect earth and sky on the same half of the sword but that would have to be almost a perpendicular surface.

Ritual- under certain circumstances the sword might reflect only sky on one side and earth on the other. But that would be crappy as noone would pick up on what their seeing...at least I dont think they would.

NMM is not that special. Its just a matter of knowing which colors when highlighted look metalic.

SENMM is when you start having REAL looking metals. The reflections is what make or break it. Its also the hard part

Klute- What you did looks right but Im wondering how you determined how to do it. Like the white strip across the center and top...how did you decide to add those.

And why is the brown only above the middle strip

 

[Klute]

Heres a good article I read when I first tried senmm.And an all round great site.
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/farp/metal2/Reflective1.htm

Put your mini on the table as it would be finished and you can see which faces will reflect what.Dont stick fast to the 5 degree thing its just a rough guide.A bit leeway is fine.
Thats just a quick shop I did on your sword ,the brown is just where I sprayed over,it should all be blue.The white on the end is cos its curved and would catch more light and the inverted I on the centre of the blade is a well known light source trick for nmm.

I disagree that nmm and senmm is just knowing what colours to use though,as you will find out.
I find nmm harder to pull off than senmm.

 

[slannpriest]

ah the I reflection..gatcha that answers all my questions thanks for the help Klute.

I will take your word for it that NMM is harder to pull of than SENMM as your far more experienced than me although I dont see how.

Unless its the fact that NMM doesnt go far enough with realism and so almost no matter what you do it still looks off.

 

[Ritual]

SENMM is hardly more realistic than NMM, since it produces a quite exaggerated comic-book realism. Very few metallic objects (at least those that appear on minis) are that polished in real life and the blue/brown reflections is a simplification of the reflections you\'ll see in real life. Look at metal objects in real life and see if you can find something that looks like that. It\'s a cool effect, but it is stylised rather than realistic. I don\'t know if one is easier than the other, but I do know that both will be difficult if you do not have some instinctive knowledge about how light is reflected. When you do, you\'ll be able to paint pretty much after your gut instinct. Try to learn the principles of light reflections from the articles instead of learning recipies for different occasions.

I\'m not trying to argue with you, only be helpful!

PS. An imortant bit of knowledge, that I think Klute was referring to as well, is that rules are not 100% important. As long is things look reasonably right you can do pretty much as you wish. That means you can add things like the white strip Klute did across the blade if you like. I don\'t know if it would look like that and I don\'t think Klute does either, but it looks believable and it makes the blade look cool!

Sorry for ranting...

 

[slannpriest]

I get where your coming from but exagerated realism is what has to be done when your painting or it doesnt end up looking good.

Highlighting is exagerated realism. TRUE realism would be paint one color and let the normal light in the room add the highlights as they should be.

Black lines between articles of clothing are inacurate but look good.

And SENMM may be too polished to truly exist in WHFB but it definitely gets across the impression that THIS is a metal object.

NMM ends up looking more cartoony than anything else. I think many of us(at least me) like it because it shows skill but without the reflections I dont think non painters would agree that it looks better than a regular metalic paint. Hence I think SENMM is the step up in realism and gets the idea across better. Granted not everything is going to have reflections but when possible I will try to add it(once I get the hang of it)

As to the principles, I got those but I dont have the gut instinct to do it. Like I wouldnt think to put the I highlight. Granted Ive got no experience other than the sword I just did and some shields I practiced on.

 

[Ritual]

You are of course entitled to your opinions, but look at Arkaal\'s gallery for instance. IMO his NMM looks more like real steel than any SENMM I\'ve ever seen. And it\'s not true there are no reflections in NMM, only no horizon. The highlights are light reflections and many painters (including myself) add some colours here and there that are reflections of surrounding surfaces (the ground, close-by garments etc.). Now this discussion can go on and on... Hopefully, you\'ll develop a style of painting that YOU like and that\'s the important thing. Good luck!

 

[Klute]

Heres one of my older ones

On the blade I have done a bright nmm with reflections of the dress and ground.Like you say this is the realistic way to do it but I think it gets lost on people looking at it.Like Ritual I am trying to get a reflective metal surface NOT JUST sky and earth.
Chrome is no way out of place in WFB,look at all the middle ages shiny armour.
A good resource is the online sword sellers and such,replica stuff.

 

[No Such Agency]

I think the more important issue here is that \"the peeps at the store\" usually don\'t know good painting from their own butt (since their own minis are usually three colours and the Commander even has eyes). The guy at my local is nice enough and even appreciates a good paint job but for example this site scares him b/c \"all the minis here are too good\". He doesn\'t see much NMM.

As for the sky/earth and the \"5 degrees rule\" - screw realism, it\'ll look better the way it is, but yeah, smooth the transitions a little.