Loot and Pluder motivation

[m0n5t3r0u5]

I play Hadross and have access to loot and plunder. This motivation is so easy to accomplish that I am


nearly taking it every time. In fact it is so easy for hadross that my gaming group is considering to


alter it or ban it completly.


I have to admit that I didn’t tested it against Goritsi. But it works extremely well against slow armies


and still really good against mid fast armies.


I use 2 Crabs and 5 Gutter + a Friar. With this combo I can reach up 22” inches into the Board and still


make actions. This fact means that when we alternately place the markers for loot and plunder I will


always put my marker as close as possible to my “d” deployment zone (which means they are 20,01”


away from my table edge). What my opponent does with the markers he is allowed to place doesn’t


interest me. With this in mind I can make 6 moral point loss to my opponent without him being able


to interrupt me. And when my opponent has a slow army he even can’t stop me from doing this a


second time. Even when he gets the Initiative and is able to contest a marker, I am able to get at least


three more moral loss for him. The only way is to be totally reckless and for this the rest of my army


will punish him badly and he will lose again. In no game it was possible for my opponent to catch up


with a 10 moral loss in round 2.


I could max it out with three crabs and 8 gutter and one friar. This would be a moral loss of 9 in the


first round without anyone being able to interrupt it.


This is way to strong. What do you think?


As for me I would recommend that the marker should be deployed deeper in the No man’s land. Like


at least 2” so that you can only get one model in the first round to that objective marker.

 

[paradox1]

Curious. Ive not had this issue vs Hadross. For one, to Control an objective, you need more models within 1" than the opponent. Second, the models (5 at most here, assuming 5 gutters) have to spend an interact, but must by definition be a 2nd activation. The crab must go first. Out of the gate, it's possible for C deployment models to advance and sprint into 1" of your 3 objectives. See Elsis Tagil and bloodmasks. Third, the models have to survive until end of the turn to score. While sevridan are tough, some magic could snipe them out. Fourth, Ive found it very easy to score my own motivations vs this sort of Hadross set up. Like Escort Civilians, Unstoppable Force, and Stand Your Ground. Elsis + bloodmask again seem very likely to not only block you motivation, but easily score Stand Your Ground from the friar youre toting along.

At best, I see this possibly allowing an early lead. But an early morale lead hardly determines a game. Especially one the taxi crab manouver is spent and slow Hadross forces are concentrated on 3 markers, unable to prevent counter motivations or defend against overwhleming force into just 5 friars. I just do not see this as unstoppable, or even that hard to overcome or outright prevent.

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

How do you interupt me accomplishing a t least a 9 point morle loss for you in the second round? The fastest Nasier units get like max 27" up the board in the first round. This means (because of physical space and the fact that the bases are round) that you only can place one model to contest the objectiv, but i have three there. You can make the math by your self. A 50mm base is aprox. 2" . This means that my objectives are max22" away from my baord edge (with their furthest point).My crab and my gutters start in zone b(10" away from my board edge). A crab starts with 3 gutter in contact. He activates uses his hitchhiking action and walks 6 inches forward (now they are 16" away from my board edge). Since i am allwoed to place my gutter anywhere in contact with the crag i place them in front of it nearer to the objective(about an inch or so).then they activate and walk up to the Objectiv (because they have 6" movement they could have walked up to 22" but only need about 4" to reach the objective)and still have the action to use it on the objective. As you can't interrupt me i will make 3 moral loss with these theree gutters only against you in the first round . Imagine that i will do this three times in the first round. Meanwhile the rest of my army gets into position to hinder you from your objectiv and get the rest of your moral soon or later. Even when you are the best player in the world you can't completely hinder your opponent of killing some of your troops. and at battle sized games how much moral do you have ? About 14-16 max. And sixteen would be preatty much.

 

[paradox1]

Bloodmasks with Elsis. They deploy in the C, or 15" on, and move 8, sprint 4. Or as you say, 27" on. The objectives must be placed at least 20" from your table edge, wholly within No Man's Land. Put another way, 28" from my own table edge.
They are more or less 2" wide, so the nearest edge of even the furthest objectives are 26" away. To be within 1", I just need a model to move 25" on the table. Or 2" less than my max move.
So even if you activate first and taxi up, my first activation can move X bloodmasks within 1" of objectives, where X is 3-5 in patrol, and 5-7 in Skirmish. If I have more models than your sevridan at which ever you think you're scoring from, that objective cannot be controlled, so you cannot score in the first round from it. Because I can be basically at the same points you can reach, I can at least put 6-14 models (depending on leaders and game size) upfield in 2 activations. And because I deploy in C to your B, I will always know where the crabs and sevridan are going, because I move faster than they can, and you must use all the move you have to contact more than 1 sevirdan into the same objective. So either you clump objectives up and I can contest multiples at once, or you spread them out and I can clog those with more rank 1 models than you have rank 2.

Because you're replying on the crabs, you have to burn an extra activation to get in place to contact objectives, where as my C deploy models only have to advance and sprint, each requiring 1 less activation, I can block each objective you go for turn 1.

Because you have to control. See page 8 of updated Rules PDF:
Controlling an Objective:
The player with the most models within 1” of an objective controls that objective. If both players have the same number of models within 1” of an objective, then neither player controls that objective.

LOOT AND PLUNDER
• Before Deployment, beginning with you, you and your opponent take turns placing 5 Objectives anywhere in No Man’s Land. Gain a marker pool with a number of markers equal to twice the total ranks of Leaders in your army.
• These Objectives cannot be placed within 4” of each other or a board edge.
• Objectives are 50mm bases with Size: 4 and Rough keywords.
• While in contact with an Objective you control, a friendly Infantry may perform an Interact Action to gain 1 marker.
• At the end of the round, if the marked model is still alive, your opponent loses 1 morale, and then that marker is removed.
• If a marked model is killed, its marker is returned to your marker pool.



Basically, If I have Elsis and bloodmasks, I can stop you because I put more models within 1" of your 3 place objectives faster than you can up 5 sevridan there. If I then plan Stand Your Ground, not only am I swarming these markers (on turn 2 I have ashmen capable of being 32" up the field - 7" move, 4" sprint, x2, with B deploy, or easily cutting off the rest of your forces from catching up), but I can also just walk bloodmasks into the friar's SOI and score my own markers, docking your morale instead.
Or I run Bloodchild and longhorns up flanks in Escort Civilians, easily hit your C deploy uncontetsed because you're clumped on the objectives you placed, and dock morale, while bloodmasks just shieldwall up with Elsis and pound on sevridan while the rest of Hadross durdles upfield?
Or I play Unstoppable Force and let you try for Elsis and rack up Morale that way.

Honestly, it's a numbers game. I fail to see where the problem is, unless you're ignoring the Contesting rule.

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

You have a math mistake . you can surly put a lot of masks up to 27" the board but only one will be able to contest one objective before i can take markers from the objective. I remesured and did the math. 5cm = 50mm 1 inch = 2,54cm that means a 50mm base is less then two inch. this means the objective is at max at 22". If you don t cheat it is only possible to put one bloodmask to contest because every other bloodmask wouldn t be in one inch even when you put them base to base . That is physically not possible. If we took it really serious not even one of the mask would be able to contest. because 50mm / 25,4 mm = 1,968503937007874. But who counts . so round up and there you got your 2 ".

 

[paradox1]

Youre definitely wrong on the math, and the impact a combined activation will have. I can easily put 3-6 bloodmasks within an inch with a single activation.

 

[EvilDave]

This motivation replaced Treasure Hunt, which was far harder for the opponent to prevent. Any model type could interact with them and there was no need to control them either.

In one off/pick-up games it's open to abuse (if players keep on picking the same motivation it's a pretty clear sign) but in a tournament it's mitigated by only being able to be chosen once. Teknes has the ability to pull this off by turn 2 as well, but as mentioned above a 10 morale drop early in the game isn't a game winner. Faced with that I'd likely keep outside of threat ranges as long as possible, picking on stuff that's already activated for the turn.

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

@ Paradox1. Yes you are right. The nomans land is 8" inch wide not 10" (this was my mistake). Yep you can counter that with the "thick women". Who else can get so far up the board? Tekness itself can counter it with taking loot and plunder by them self. I assume goritzi is fast enough by them self? What can Shael Han do against this? I still have cirique point on this motivation it is still easier as most of the other motivations. And it plays extreamly well into Hadross (because they don t have to get so far up the board to accomplish it

 

[paradox1]

Shael Han is somewhat weak to a turn 1 push here. It has many move6 C deploy troops, but that only permits 1 model to get in control range. Hong Yao, the Deathbloom, the Black Lotus leader, the celestial snake troop, the celestial gatekeeper, and the trickster can all move in further to also contest, but it's a mixed bag. So certainly, Hadross can score an early lead. But given the weight of C deploy troops, plus the Red Willow, the Hadross player will not score in turn 2. Then its a matter of the Shael Han motivation and whether it can balance out the early lead.

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

Ok after a good amount of thinking and testing . I still think that “loot and plunder “is too easy to accomplish. Especially for a Tekness Pig Army with the right Leaders. They are way better in accomplishing this motivation than Hadross. Even for Nasier. In this case the Starting roll determinates if this game is going to be an interesting one. If the Tekness players wins the roll he can make a 9 Moral loss in the first turn. If the Nasier player gets the first round he can contest.
OK I’ll give you that. But this is a problem. If a game is determinated by a single roll in the beginning there is a need to talk about it. And this is only against Nasier. For shael han it is nearly impossible to win the game after that. And don t tell me that a 9 moral loss early is a not a game determinating event.
Me as a Hadross player will always take loot and plunder against tekness. And it will always end with an early loss of 10 moral for both of us.
In an tournament environment I would always use loot and plunder against Shael han for an easy win. And just imagine the Shael han player who gets for example 2 times “l and p” against him.
That is not fun. And I want fun in this game because I like it very much and had really good experiences in a lot of cases. So generally speaking the motivation got better but not balanced enough. I know that asymmetrical winning options is hard to balance but it doesn’t t need to be perfect just better for the overall game. My 5 cents for this motivation would be two moral loss at maximum per objective that would also give a reason to hunt for the other objectives rather than the three ones on my side of the table.
And it would lead to that your opponents can use different tactics because 6 moral loss early on is not that hard then 9 early on.
If you still don t think that this motivation is not so worse just compare it to other motivation like “Personal gain”. Which one would you always prefer? Personal Gain is plain bad.
And generally speaking it is not all about to counter a motivation with a special build. It should be about resource investing and interaction with you opponent. If you look into all other motivation you have to interact with you opponent or at least you need to get on the other side of the Board.
So please don’t hack my head off . I just want a discussion about a problem in the game. Wok is a superb game in general and why shouldn’t it get better. We as a small community also should try to tweak it to the better, so that every faction could have good game against any other faction. So please let’s talk about this and try to think from another perspective.

Thanks.

 

[EvilDave]

If the Tekness players wins the roll he can make a 9 Moral loss in the first turn.

With the pigs moving 5" and starting at least 5" away from 3 objectives you would only be able to get 3 moral loss on the first turn (only 3 models could contact that objectives). If you whip them into a frenzy you could likely get 9 morale by bringing 6 pigs down to 1 wound for an extra inch of move.

My 5 cents for this motivation would be two moral loss at maximum per objective

That's a good idea, although it wouldn't help in Patrol or Skirmish levels. To scale it better you could sync the number of objectives to the number of leaders. It might get difficult remembering which markers came from which objective though.

 

[paradox1]

Let's start with assumptions. What size game are we talking here? Patrol, Skirmish, or Battle? This matters, because it determines ranks of Leaders, which affects how many Motivation tokens are available to you.
Patrol allows 2 ranks. Skirmish allows 3. Battle allows 5. Accordingly, you have a max 4/6/10 tokens available, respectively.

You can only inflict a 9 morale loss in a Battle size game. I understand most folks play Skirmish. That's been my experience too, at least. There, you're only scoring 6 max. Still a huge hit, but it's proportional to total morale. I'll proceed on the assumption the game is Skirmish.

In order to score 6 tokens, you need to get 6 pig men in contact with your first activation. Otherwise objectives can be contested by the opponent's first activation. The Command levels in Skirmish are 5/7. So the Boss has to be the Army Commander to effect this move. Simple enough. Starting Morale in a skirmish is somewhere between 7 and 12. Let's figure 9 as average. The motivation lets you max morale loss at 6 here. You still need to kill 9 models, or get a leader or two in that mix, to win. To max motivation, youve put at least 1/3 of your troops forward in an easy location and inflicted a wound on each. They are dangerous, but also in real danger themselves. Killing them will net a 2 morale loss alone, even totally ignoring counter scenario.

What if youre vs Hadross and they are taxi crabbing up as you explained earlier? Do you both take a 6 loss? Do you try to contest instead? How do you handle motivation mirror match?

What if you hit that Morale 12 list? You've spent your motivation, but they have 6 Morale left. What if it's Naiser and the field if full of a mix of 24 infantry, pelegarth and ashmen? Those 6 wounded pigs are looking like bacon. Assume they took Unstoppable Force or Stand Your Ground. How are they not just counter-sapping your morale?
If you whipped 6 pigs to score, you had to do it with a Boss that's the Commander. He's SOI8. You can back up 5" and still do the top of 1 move, but if the enemy plays Stand Your Ground, you just sold those 6 pigs down the river. He cant move back up without exposing his SOI to the enemy motivation.

Suppose its Unstoppable Force. Failing to kill a leader generates morale loss for you. And I can just wrap them in infantry and escort to you d-zone to take checks. I'll get my 6 morale hit vs you, plus dock you 2 more for those 6 pigs you handed me. Now Im down 6, but your down 8.

I think you're still wrong. I think there's counter play here. It IS a strong motivation. It CAN hit early and hurt. It's hardly insurmountable. Especially if it's a known quantity. Can you "gotcha" someone? Sure. That's hardly novel to any game. Failure to acount for that once its known is at least equally an opponents problem as it is game design. It's not like these counter plays hard skew a player. Some play straight into the opponent's wheelhouse.

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

First I am talking about Battle level games. And you didn’t get my point paradox. Yeah you can counter that. But what I want to say is that this motivation in comparsion to others like Personal gain and Landgrab is not only just easier to accomplish (against at least two other factions 3 if you count your own faction) , you can also accomplish it earlier than the others and they are closer. All other motivations are either deep in enemy deployment zones or markers on enemy models where your opponent can decide when he is going to sacrifice them or not (at least he hasa big influence on of how many you get). End yes one lp pigs look like bacon but there is still a 50% chance in many cases of lvl1 vs lvl1 where they still don t die. And still it is a activation problem but tekness has the option to change places with linemen and they have a character which gives the pigs a life point back. And as a hadross player I will never take another motivation than loot and plunder in the greed list. The others are way too far away or too bad to accomplish.
So how many effective Counter against this Motivation exist? 2-3 ? Most of them in a Nasier force? What do you when you don’t play nasier against it ? There are technically more situations where you can’t counter it and play the rest of the game uphill then a balanced game.
Actually I think that every other category has better balanced Motivations then Greed. Even Burn it down is better than Landgrab. The only one takeable, is loot and plunder (for hadross in a battle lvl game). And that one is too good (against certain armies and most constellations).

As for Shael Han my idea would be a Trickster and Za’Ken,The Silent Storm combo. It could work against that. Za’ken could kill a couple of pigs before they can make a moral loss at least the Tekness player would have to think twice before he pulls that of.

 

[paradox1]

First I am talking about Battle level games.

It helps to state that upfront.

And you didn’t get my point paradox. Yeah you can counter that. But what I want to say is that this motivation in comparsion to others like Personal gain and Landgrab is not only just easier to accomplish (against at least two other factions 3 if you count your own faction) , you can also accomplish it earlier than the others and they are closer. All other motivations are either deep in enemy deployment zones or markers on enemy models where your opponent can decide when he is going to sacrifice them or not (at least he hasa big influence on of how many you get).

Whereas I've found Unstoppable Ground, Escort Civilians, and Stand Your Ground super easy to score. Sure, maybe not top of 1, but that hardly matters. I don't know about you, but many games I've played to date (not nearly as much as I'd like, granted) have seen massive Morale swings back and forth as one side then another score Motivations or makes a big push. It's extremely rare that one side goes up massively on morale and rides that lead to the end of the game. I can only think of 1 game that happened, where I got a very early game kill on an opposing Commander, and his remaining leader was too far off to one side to recover, letting me massively exploit activation disparities.I played the old Treasure Hunt vs taxi crab Hadross ALOT. My opponent very frequently got lucky in turning over his marked tokens early, leading to a massive early game loss to my morale. I was able to regain that more often than not by scoring my motivations, or killing the models he'd slung too far forward unsupported by the rest of his very slow force. These games, despite my early Morale loss, almost invariably came down to a 1-2 Morale difference at the end.

Given that it was MUCH easier to score Treasure Hunt, and required FAR less investment in bodies exposed to retaliation, I don't agree with your assessment, I did not miss your point at all. Rather, your point has not born out in any of my games to date. You working to exploit Loot and Plunder just makes many counter motivations easier to score. And your entire plan hinges on getting first go, as previously discussed.

End yes one lp pigs look like bacon but there is still a 50% chance in many cases of lvl1 vs lvl1 where they still don t die. And still it is a activation problem but tekness has the option to change places with linemen and they have a character which gives the pigs a life point back. And as a hadross player I will never take another motivation than loot and plunder in the greed list. The others are way too far away or too bad to accomplish.

At least personally, this is not so. 6 pigs, and maybe a boss (maybe not if I'm playing Stand Your Ground, because then you'd be handing me my motivation on a platter) vs a bloodmask shieldwall? And all those pigs are 1 wound because you whipped them last round. You're strongly over-valuing 6 pigs, potentially with no leader model if I have a motivation that exploits your SOI.

So how many effective Counter against this Motivation exist? 2-3 ? Most of them in a Nasier force? What do you when you don’t play nasier against it ? There are technically more situations where you can’t counter it and play the rest of the game uphill then a balanced game.

Let's go one by one.
Call To Glory (Naiser and Shael Han): those 6 pigs you whipped to a frenzy and shoved to No Man's Land? Each one is worth a potential VP to opposing Leaders and Specialists. Naiser can definitely easily exploit this. So can Shael Han, with the previously noted wealth of C Deploy models or ambushers (Red Willow). It's a fantastic counter, given you're serving up 6 easy kills. It also plays into normal motivation losses through models killed.

Sever the Head (Naiser and Hadross): I actually don't like this one because it let's you run models away. However, as a counter to Loot and Plunder it's nice. Because you can mark the Leader forcing the pigs (or whatever) up early. Like Stand Your Ground, it makes the leader flee the fight. You may inflict a morale loss, but you'll lose the models you sent in, and your power pieces are now liabilities. Leaders unable to get in SOI range will cost you activations, allowing the opponent to exploit that and piecemeal your force. That's alot of work though, so I tend not to bother.

Capture Prisoners (Teknes and Goritsi): Those 6 pigs? Meat for capture here Just gotta tag em and bag em. Tekness with access to Rescue, and Goritsi with fast models that have Skirmisher and Stalker will hit and run these tokens quickly enough.

Escort Civilians (Naiser and Shael Han); This is so stupidly easy to score, it's not funny. Longhorns and the BloodChild are great at this one. Shael Han's many C deploy models will be too. Especially vs a player playing Loot and Plunder and focused on jamming up his objectives in the middle. There's nothing left to stop my wide flank moves. Or LOL flying Bloodchild up the middle. I love this motivation. Super easy, and it puts my fast flankers in perfect flanking positions too. I roll you up and eat you for lunch.

Burn It Down (Naiser and Hadross): I tend not to do this one. But it'd be fun because I could place my objectives directly between you and yours in No Mans Land. My objectives can't be within 4" of each other, but there's no restraint on distance to your objectives. So I block off at least 1 model from each of your objectives and and make you fight it out in the middle. Not favorable, but I have to try it some time to see how lulzy it will be using my objectives to block yours off.

Assassinate (Teknes and Goritsi): Did you move a leader up into C deploy at least? Remember how I said counter motivations could force leaders away from the fight? Here's one of those cases. My Goritsi opponent loves this motivation. Its hard to stop him. Between 6 pigs and a boss, you're offering up at least 4 morale, leaving you just a 2 morale lead from 6.

Stand Your Ground (Naiser and Shael Han): Just got to get models in your leader's SOI. C deploy models that are fast readily exist in both factions. I love this motivations vs people who love rushing the middle (like Loot n Plunder). A perfect counter.

Unstoppable Force (Naiser and Hadross): Someone was just on here a few months back saying THIS motivation was the best and so OP it warped games. Hmmmm...
It's fun, I do like it. Especially with Elsis or Arkan + Bloodchild. It's not unbeatable, but I easily score this one too. Loot and Plunder just let's me pick up easy kills on my way to your D Zone. Easy counter to Loot n Plunder.

Steal Intel (Teknes and Goritsi): Got to admit, I've never seen anyone play this.

Land Grab (Teknes and Hadross): Another interesting counter to Loot and Plunder, because I can use these to block deployment opposite your objectives. I've also seen canny taxi crab play used to nab these placed on flanks, then make flanking moves. Probably too much work for my taste, but a potential counter.

Disrupt Supply Lines (Goritsi and Shael Han): My goritsi opponent enjoys this as well. His zeti + skirmishers and scourge hounds are excellent at scoring this while digging deep in your flanks. It's not as instant as Land Grab, but it's hard to stop. You simply cannot cover them all. Especially playing Loot and Plunder as you propose.

Loot and Plunder (Hadross and Teknes): The mirror match. I think you've adequately defended how this can be used to make the game a low-motivation, high-stakes game.

Infiltrate (Goritsi and Shael Han): Again, not one I've seen played. But given the C deploy models available to both, I can see this being easily scored, like Escort Civilians.

Personal Gain (Teknes and Hadross): Another I have not seen played.

No Confidence (Goritsi and Shael Han): I've seldom seen this, but again, the SOI impacting motivations can be used to disrupt activation, forcing a favorably skewed play where parts of your force are left sitting, or you have to risk allowing counterplay.

All told, each faction has at least a few options to cause equal losses quickly, or exploit SOI to force a choice between stranding troops or risking morale loss.

Actually I think that every other category has better balanced Motivations then Greed. Even Burn it down is better than Landgrab. The only one takeable, is loot and plunder (for hadross in a battle lvl game). And that one is too good (against certain armies and most constellations).

As I pointed out above, I think you're missing some very potent counters here.

As for Shael Han my idea would be a Trickster and Za’Ken,The Silent Storm combo. It could work against that. Za’ken could kill a couple of pigs before they can make a moral loss at least the Tekness player would have to think twice before he pulls that of.

Especially if playing Call To Glory, where each turn his kills can add an extra Morale loss. For example, Za'Ken might snipe out the boss, scoring the Leader loss + the motivation loss, and with Bounce have landed 2 possible kills. A 3rd model means a 3 morale loss there.
But I thin Escort Civilians or Stand Your Ground are much more powerful, and directly counter, or at least exploit, Loot and Plunder.

 

[paradox1]

Sorry, I missed calling this out.

Fbut there is still a 50% chance in many cases of lvl1 vs lvl1 where they still don t die.

If you went up by 6-9 Morale, then it's no longer a 50/50 chance on Initiative.

■ Initiative Roll
Players roll initiative to determine the first player at the beginning of each round. To make an initiative roll, each player rolls 1d10. The player with the lowest current morale gains an additional +1 to this roll equal to the difference between their morale and the highest player’s (If the lowest player had a morale of 3, for example, while the highest player had a 6, the lowest player would receive +3 to their roll). If two or more armies have an equal value for the lowest, no one gains the bonus. The player with the highest total wins the roll and is the first player for the round. In the event of a tie, players reroll until one player wins. Players then take turns in clockwise order.

So your opponent has a +6 to +9 bonus to their roll, assuming you effected a massive Morale swing top of 1. They almost certainly go first round 2.

 

[paradox1]

Just a quick follow up. We played this out with my local Hadross buddy. Turn 1 he was able to score 4 points, after some shaks landed 8/9 and 9/10 hits on a few Evade 2 bloodmasks. So the early lead was 9-3. With Unstoppable Force, Naiser hit back hard. I missed a few Will checks, but the game ended 2-0 in Hadross's favor. The key was a dew good early attacks by Hadross, noted above, while on my side I missed a couple key rolls that woul have swung it 1-0 to me.

We discussed it a bit afterwards, and while its a strong motivation, it was not overwhelming. But if we were to fix it, it seems like changing the order of objective placement to 2 by the L/P player and 3 by opponent might help. It really limits where you can taxi to that way.

We also felt that the strongest part is surprise/psychology. If you didnt see the early hit coming, we could see how it would appear insurmountable. But if you realize the plan and position right, it offers a great opportunity to counterpunch pretty hard.

 

[Lhey]

For a new player this was an interesting read. I have two questions if you'd like to answer.

It seems a little bit odd to me, that you can score before all models were activated in the round you are trying to score in. Wouldn't it make more sense that you can score at the beginning of round 2 where you take advantage of you actions in round 1? I mean setting up your potential scoring in round 1 and thus control the objective and then score via interact action. You are able to score then because you at this round counting as controlling the objective, which needs to be rechecked at the end of round 2.

The other idea I had: could you balance this by taking a very small terrain as objective? So you could only get like 3 models in contact?


Greetings

 

[paradox1]

Technically, the Loot and Plunder player isnt scoring during the turn. Models are claiming objective tokens. But it can be very difficult to effectively attack these models round 1, so scoring at the end of the round is highly likely. This is why I favor blocking the ability to gain tokens.

Currently, the markers are 50mm bases. One could make the marker smaller, but that also makes it more difficult to contest. Rather than shrink the size, increasing the distance might work. Eg, placing the objective along the line between the opponents D deployment and No Mans Land. Or placing the markers on the opponent's side of No Mans Land.

 

[Lhey]

Thank you for the fast enlightening answers!

As I read it the cost a Hadross army trying to force a win through interact actions seems pretty boring and even risky. Activate your models for looting and nothing else? First round you score as explained clearly in the thread. Then you get punished. Or is this Hadross list so opted to endure? (still newby asking here)

One could expand the rules. There are 5 objectives from which you could "Loot and Plunder". Let's have every objective only 2 markers. (I know you would have to adjust other motovations too)

 

[paradox1]

That's another idea. But I agree that it can be risky. It's true that this tactic CAN lead to a very strong early lead, but it can also result in a very punishing turn 2 in return. In fact, that did happen my last reported game, above.
It might be boring, but it's also effective if you want to win and can limit the retaliation.