Looking for thoughts on dealing with too many Giants
- Thread starter Manglepaw
- Start date
AutumnLeaves
New member
Pyromancers aren't a bad choice
Jaime + MM can throw enough hits out that he can put them down.
Flanking them with Knights of the Rock can also do the trick.
If anything, the The Mountain That Rides is a bad matchup against the Giant - he can only deal 2 wounds to the giant (or 4 if he rolls all sixes) and the Giant is very likely to squish him in return.
Counterintuitively, throwing Guardsmen or something into combat with a Giant and then never attacking it can also be a good way of dealing with them - if it's undamaged it won't be dealing that much damage and you can probably lock it in combat for most of the game.
Jaime + MM can throw enough hits out that he can put them down.
Flanking them with Knights of the Rock can also do the trick.
If anything, the The Mountain That Rides is a bad matchup against the Giant - he can only deal 2 wounds to the giant (or 4 if he rolls all sixes) and the Giant is very likely to squish him in return.
Counterintuitively, throwing Guardsmen or something into combat with a Giant and then never attacking it can also be a good way of dealing with them - if it's undamaged it won't be dealing that much damage and you can probably lock it in combat for most of the game.
Oakwolf
New member
Pyromancer Melee is great if you can boost their attack a bit. They have crap defense anyway so don't really care about the gian's ability. If Joffrey is your commander, one of his cards will boost their attacks insanely.
The Poor Fellows can really hurt a giant with a faith token, but will die too if they don't finish it.
Otherwise, Crossbowmen can put enough wounds for a unit of Lannister Knights to finish it off with a timely charge.
The Poor Fellows can really hurt a giant with a faith token, but will die too if they don't finish it.
Otherwise, Crossbowmen can put enough wounds for a unit of Lannister Knights to finish it off with a timely charge.
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MagyarKhan
New member
I think units should be restricted.... it is too much rock scissor paper
Oakwolf
New member
It didn't start that way, most things were "soft counters" but we're seeing more "hard counter" things popping out, which i guess is normal if they want to diversify the factions. The most obvious (to me at least) right now is morale. Army lists that focus on morale can be seriously countered by the units available nowadays, and some lists are all but immune to it.
MagyarKhan
New member
but whats wrong with limiting stuf.... i dont wanna fight a competitive battle vs 4 giants
Oakwolf
New member
What's funny is that they limited Scorpion Crews to 2 per army, but not Giants.
In any case, if you have access to Vulnerable (through the tactic board or another mechanic), the giants will fall quickly. Sundering is another great way of getting those wounds in. Then flanking it is not too hard either.
No units will come out of a fight with a giant unscathed (well...almost none), but that's how it should be too. They do cost 7pts each, after all and won't contest objectives very well with the coming rule changes.
In any case, if you have access to Vulnerable (through the tactic board or another mechanic), the giants will fall quickly. Sundering is another great way of getting those wounds in. Then flanking it is not too hard either.
No units will come out of a fight with a giant unscathed (well...almost none), but that's how it should be too. They do cost 7pts each, after all and won't contest objectives very well with the coming rule changes.
BroZane
New member
Personally, I'd rather fight four Giants any day over an army of 8 Raiders. At least Giants are worth points. But yeah, each army has a problem unit, but I (as a Stark player) find that the Lannisters have unique ways of solving various problems, you just gotta get creative.
As I'm sure Oakwolf can testify, I hate the over use of Umber units in Starks, but they are not difficult to deal with, you just have to get creative. Same with Freefolk Giants, Bolton Flayed Men, or Nightswatch anything.
One of the rudest thinks a Stark player can do to you is charge you with Umber Greataxes, led by a Sworn Sword Captain. Missed saves generate extra hits, plus Vulnerable, your pretty much dead. How to counter this? Out manuver them, or weakness tokens. Giants swing a single dice and kill a crap tone of dudes? Weakness may help, unlikely but better than nothing, otherwise just hold out. Flayed Men are terrifying on a charge, but they are just like any other calvery, just slower. Nightswatch are no issue, Jon Snow and his NCU's are the issue.
The big issue with Lannisters against these groups tend to be how you approach them. And my favorite answer to this is usually Tywin Lannisters: Lord of Casterly Rock. Can he prevent calvery or Giants from having !ultiple wounds? No, but he can slower their roll like a mud slide, and spitting out weakened tokens with Pycel makes it all the better.
So have fun with that bit of information.
As I'm sure Oakwolf can testify, I hate the over use of Umber units in Starks, but they are not difficult to deal with, you just have to get creative. Same with Freefolk Giants, Bolton Flayed Men, or Nightswatch anything.
One of the rudest thinks a Stark player can do to you is charge you with Umber Greataxes, led by a Sworn Sword Captain. Missed saves generate extra hits, plus Vulnerable, your pretty much dead. How to counter this? Out manuver them, or weakness tokens. Giants swing a single dice and kill a crap tone of dudes? Weakness may help, unlikely but better than nothing, otherwise just hold out. Flayed Men are terrifying on a charge, but they are just like any other calvery, just slower. Nightswatch are no issue, Jon Snow and his NCU's are the issue.
The big issue with Lannisters against these groups tend to be how you approach them. And my favorite answer to this is usually Tywin Lannisters: Lord of Casterly Rock. Can he prevent calvery or Giants from having !ultiple wounds? No, but he can slower their roll like a mud slide, and spitting out weakened tokens with Pycel makes it all the better.
So have fun with that bit of information.
Oakwolf
New member
Yeah Tywin can seriously annoy Free Folk
While Giants don't usually care too much for weakness tokens (2+, even with a forced re-roll, is kind of easy), they really do care for what Tywin+Pycell can pull off from them:
Lannister intimidation will completely neutralize a giant's offensive power for a complete round.
Exploit Weakness: perhaps useless vs giants, but i wonder if the +2 additional wounds for spending a weakened require rolls of 1s on the re-roll?
While Giants don't usually care too much for weakness tokens (2+, even with a forced re-roll, is kind of easy), they really do care for what Tywin+Pycell can pull off from them:
Lannister intimidation will completely neutralize a giant's offensive power for a complete round.
Exploit Weakness: perhaps useless vs giants, but i wonder if the +2 additional wounds for spending a weakened require rolls of 1s on the re-roll?
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BroZane
New member
From my understanding, the way exploit weakness works is: enemy attacks(result irrelavent to the card), you spend the weakened tokens to force a reroll, result is a 1, first ability of tactics card is in effect, and because the token was spent, then second effect triggers, result in(for a giant) 3 automatic wounds being dealt. Far more devastating and reliable against other units but still useful.
Lannisters Intimidation: far more useful against Giants, ok against other units.
Lannisters Intimidation: far more useful against Giants, ok against other units.
Failix
New member
One important thing is to not try and chip the wounds of the giant away. If you are on an objective marker with a unit of guards, you should never ever attack the giant. Try to kill the giants in one blow with KoCR or MM and the help of cersei, the crown, vulnerable etc. Pick one giant to kill per round and focus on that one.
BroZane
New member
Another, arguably more helpful Commander is Tyrion. Using him, you can actually have. Let's say the mountain in kocr unit perform multiple charges in a turn given the right set up. Not be sure when facing Giants, you wait till they act first so there is no fear of retaliation.
stonehorse
New member
Easy, I had a force with 4 Giants, they were rendered pointless. I managed to kill 9 models over the entire game. Tywin, Tyrion, Lord Varys, and Walder. Those shut down near enough everything my Freefolk wanted to do. Meanwhile Gregor Clegane in a unit of Knights of Casterly Rock went about and killed a Giant, a unit of Raidrs and the Skinchanger's Bonded Bear in a single turn with the aid of Cunning Ploy. From there that unit continued to repeat their success, as I was not allowed to charge them thanks to Delay Orders.
Giants even with the new changes may seem a menace... but they are very easy to counter, also when they hit, it isn't that hard. D3+2+ wounds taken, is only nasty if the Giant has taken damage.
Also for each Giant taken that is 2 less Raiders with a single Raid Leader. These do all the hard lifting in the Freefolk, so essentially Giants are a trap unit if taken in large numbers.
Giants even with the new changes may seem a menace... but they are very easy to counter, also when they hit, it isn't that hard. D3+2+ wounds taken, is only nasty if the Giant has taken damage.
Also for each Giant taken that is 2 less Raiders with a single Raid Leader. These do all the hard lifting in the Freefolk, so essentially Giants are a trap unit if taken in large numbers.
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Mountain men with Gregor (commander) make 8 attacks with critical blow + D3 automatic wounds
combine with fury of the mountain tactic card and you can kill a giant in only one attack
if not, panic test can finish him, giant’s moral was increased to 4+ and with vicious ability it pass to 6+ or more (corpse pile, flanck ....)
combine with fury of the mountain tactic card and you can kill a giant in only one attack
if not, panic test can finish him, giant’s moral was increased to 4+ and with vicious ability it pass to 6+ or more (corpse pile, flanck ....)
