King's Guard (unit) vs Night's Watch Stone Thrower

[Oakwolf]

The King's guard has been a puzzle for me so far...and with the advent of the Stone Thrower, able to literally pulverize this unit, it's not getting easier.

I get that we need to protect them usually, but in this case, we can't...and since they cannot heal, it's the dream target for the engine. By turn 3, odds are very good to wipe it out without recourse and there goes 3VP.

The best solution, imho, and given its special rules, would have been to have the Kingsguard count as a solo unit. With the new objective rules...it'd be able to hold an objective admirably (so you'd have to manage when/where to commit it, if you dare). I can certainly imagine the Kingsguard being one of the best unit to hold an objective, both thematically and mechanically. Right now with 2 ranks...this is another drawback for them.

 

[AutumnLeaves]

Yep, it's a bad matchup.
The Kingsguard are already a pretty terrible unit though. The stone thrower doesn't really make them any worse, it's just yet another thing that kills them with ease.

 

[Oakwolf]

Agreed, but nothing in the game has this good a chance to kill it so quickly. 11% on the first turn, precisely. We can all understand that the 6pts cost of the Kingsguard needs to be compensated somewhere. 8 wounds, impossible to heal, handing over 3VP and army-wide panic does that. The player has to be wise in using the unit or he'll loose them too quickly. While i agree that the KG is quite hard to use, the stone thrower makes it a whole new level of hard, because there's no real counter to it. Imho nothing in the game should have 11% of earning 3VP and causing army wide panic on turn 1. Even if not, it still has 55% chance to remove a full rank from it, making it completely suicidal to use it in combat.

By that point, it's not just a bad match up, it's a liability.

 

[Codfather]

Thankfully with the recent changes, Joffrey and the Kingsguard are a very solid lannister option now. Though, still garbage into the stonethrower

 

[Oakwolf]

Thankfully with the recent changes, Joffrey and the Kingsguard are a very solid lannister option now. Though, still garbage into the stonethrower

Indeed 1.5 changes everything for the Kingsguard...and i am very happy about it. The biggest flaw it had was its inability to be healed

The stone thrower is still a hard counter to this kind of unit, but mostly due to the +2 VP it grants...as the king's guard is 6pts to the Stone Thrower's immense 10. If you can make the King's guard last long enough it will give you a tactical advantage elsewhere on the field, and it is possible through the wealth zone and Joffrey's "I am the King!" tactic card.

 

[MechMage]

I don't have much practical experience to back this up, but I theorize that with the 1.5 changes, KG aren't as hard countered by Stonethrowers as they first seem. Since they can spend a banner for a free maneuver or retreat four times now, the unit is more mobile than most cavalry and speed is the best answer to the Stonethrower (other than Walder). I am the King is a very powerful card which, if it can be drawn in time, prevents the guard from being one shot. There will still be games where they're punked immediately of course, but like any high variance strategy there will be many more games where they aren't.
I'm going to keep trying to make them work and in the meanwhile thank my lucky stars that stonethrowers aren't popular in my local area.

 

[Codfather]

In some games the dice will be with the lannisters and the kingsgiard won't get killed in 1-3 turns by the stone thrower, but man that is some variance I am not willing to take unless my paired list in a near auto lose to Nights Watch

 

[Oakwolf]

@MechMage: the reason i say it's still a hard counter is because it can kill the unit on the flick of a good dice roll. But now, at least, the unit can heal up if it survives the initial shot and the Lannister player can eventually draw one of those Wound block cards to extend the time that the machine is 100% devoted to the unit.

That being said, i find the current situation quite balanced...so my thread went obsolete by the time 1.5 came in.