Hadross Update Discussion

[CMON Michael Shinall]

So for those unaware, Hadross are receiving some Quality of Life changes. We spoke about this at the CMON Expo panel.

In my free time I've also taken to doing a Podcast discussing the topic- nothing formal, just me sitting around and talking.

Here you go

http://michaelshinall.podomatic.com/entry/2016-06-05T18_28_25-07_00

 

[FMC]

Much appreciated!

The sharks are coming' back...

 

[EvilDave]

Here's the breakdown on the what, I still recommend a listen for the why:

Also, what was the change to Gar's training? You never finished that thought.

two main things
no more swim
resonate change: units expend it to get benefits

changes are almost finalized, GenCon/August release for new cards

Deepmen
have to expend resonate to get Def. Mastery

kaxes
training: distance to enemy with resonate capped at 3"

torvosh
attack down to 2 die
survivor: 2" range now, only strikes can be applied to friendly models
inspire: have to expend resonate to get +d10
training: have to expend resonate to remove a strike

Sevridans
shift: now a 00" d10 will attack against all resonated enemies in range, expend resonate to cause 1 damage, then place jelly in 3" bringing along enemies in contact, no more using it to "sprint"
guidance: expend resonate to get Off. Expertise

friar
attack down to 1 die
Strong Will replaced for Iron Will (+2 will power)

ooroth
has overpower result now
stinging field only targets resonated models
inspire: expend resonate on an enemy within 3" to move it 3" towards them

Carcharians
movement to 6"
one attack: feeding frenzy, 2d10, expend resonate to heal one damage if you hit
get pain fueled: +1", +d10, get Unstoppable
new ability: abysal retribution, if hit and not killed all enemies in 2" get resonate

charger
inspire: if model has damage it gains Off Expertise
training: damaged models may expend resonate on an enemy in contact to have it suffer a d10 melee

gar
arena champion: down to 2 or more enemies to trigger
inspire: expend resonate on enemy within 10" to get +2"
training: started to mention something but then moved off topic

Deep Caller
will power drop to 6
voice demands: expend resonate to get a re-roll instead of an extra d10
calling of the voice: will check (3) now

Reaver
expend resonate to get +2d10
lost crawl, got nimble (ignore rough keyword)
land range: expend resonate on enemy in 8" to get +2"

Cavalier
fury: expend resonate to get Off. Expertise

Oracle
demands: ALL enemies within 2" have to make a will check(1) or take damage
saw-tooth: expend resonate to get Off. Expertise
fear of the deep: down to 6"
horror unknown: new ability, 6" aura, on failed willcheck one enemy within 2" get resonate

Ephramaki
Calling of the Voice: Will Check (3)

Ilva
Syren Call: enemy within 9" now makes the will check(3), may expend resonate for -2 to its will, no chance of damage

The Gelatinous Shift to a will attack change makes the Ooroth/Oracle synergies even nastier but that's tempered with the change to Ooroth's inspire. It effectively moves his old inspire to an attack on the jellies and the new inspire let's them shift one more model without doing damage to it. The change to the Oracles' Demands of the Voice ability means it takes a lot less finesse to pull off. The Horror Unknown seems neat though, and has the potential of generating a lot of resonate.

Overall, I think this is going to lead to people using resonate when the can. It's going to be much less abundant with Hadross removing it as well as the enemy. Deepmen seem to be left with the short end of the stick, however. They were pretty easy to deal with before (at least for Goritsi), now they have to expend the resonate to get the re-rolls. I'm curious how that'll work with one resonated enemy splitting its melee attack between two deepmen. They both can't expend it, so when would you declare? Before the attacker declared how their attacks will be split or after?

 

[Aldebaran]

the changes affect negatively Hadross, it very weak compared to other factions. What do think those who play with Hadross?

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

First of all it is mostly a nerv. not calling it a nerv doesn t make it a non nerv.
With this off my chest. I assume this rebalancing will hit other factions too otherwise it is definitivly a nerv.
But generell i think Reorganisating the resonace mechanic is a nice solution as long as i am able to resonate models multiple times. Otherwise it is and you can t call it something else but a big nerv. I actually Don t understand why you put Swim out of the game? My Argument against yours is that i have nearly in every game a Water Element. By setting Up the battlefield it is a key stratigic factor. Me and my playing Group Set the Terrain alternately between 2-6 Elements before play. I have two Water Terrain pieces when my opponent starts placing his Terrain Element He always takes one Water Element to deny it to me and i place always one with my Motivation in mind. There has been severel cases where this Terrain pieces was very important for my victory. Instead of taking out a cool and background wise logical rule you Could consider to outline the Terrain placing rules for the players as another level of tactical depth. And besides that there is cool and very functional cardboard Waterterrain Element in the two Player Starter Set. I just bought a Lot of Water Terrain espacialy for this game last week.
Besides my critic above i think the changes feel right.

 

[MAXXxxx]

as a hadross 'player' I think it's a nerf, but I think it mostly rebalances the game as hadross is considered hard to beat here.
I have yet to listen through the whole podcast, but from the summary I feel like they are used like tokens / WM focus for the abilities. Do I see it right ? So you resonate enemies, take 1 token to activate 1 ability of your own unit?

As for swim: yeah, nice thing to have IF you have the terrain for it. 99% don't, so it's a rule that's not used by most. I imagine it could be even worse for organised play, as most tournament game tables don't have anything watery at all. So yes it looses some tactical benefits and fluff, but for most it was never used to begin with.

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

It is not my fault that hadross player don t use their tactial advantiges . it is totally easy to build Walter terrain by yourself vor buy it at low costs Form gale force nine . i would bring my own Water terrain to a turnament if neccessery . so organised play events could See for it .it is tragic that Walter rules see less and less play . besides that if there is still The swim rule hadross ccould have get special effects that create Water terrain which would habe become handy against other factions but not against another hadross player. This would have given The game even more flavour

 

[Loomisc]

I think the problem with hadross currently is the steep skill curve against it. So against new players it can seem overwhelming and intimidating. If the stick with it they will figure it out, but early on it is a distraction.

 

[Aldebaran]

Then an enemy model may have more than one token resonance?
I ask because when spending resonance token it will be lost

 

[paradox1]

I think the idea is youll have to plan to keep re-resonating.

 

[Gebus]

I haven't been able to listen to the whole podcast but do have one important question. I just started on a Hadross army (just have the starter set), will new cards be available (for free or purchase)? I'm not a big fan of the "print-your-own" as they never have the same quality as professionally printed cards.

 

[EvilDave]

They'll be available in August for purchase. I'm assuming they'll be free to download then too.

 

[Gebus]

Thank you,
I'll be at GenCon in August, hopefully they'll be available there.

 

[Chinkster]

Have any Hadross players actually asked for these changes? As a Hadross player, these are NOT merely "quality of life" changes. It fundamentally changes how Hadross uses Resonate. It's not about "simplifying bookkeeping" as claimed in the podcast.

 

[Aldebaran]

Why make these changes? What was the reason? who requested it? players or designers?

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

actually a game needs to evolve and most of the changes make sense and as long as we don t have the full picture how the other factions will evolve we actually can t say how this is going to affect hadross player.
For me most of the things feel right ( exept the swim rule) . I rechecked the rules and right now it is possible that a modell can have more than one resonate marker which makes the new mechanik not so bad as it sounds in the first place. So as long as this dosen t change i see a good Qualtiy of live changing ( except that swim rule los..... )

 

[Loomisc]

Not sure what makes you think a model can have more than one marker. The rules don't even mention a marker that I can see. It just states that model X gains Resonate. We gamers use markers to show that but I the rules don't say that. That may change however.

 

[EvilDave]

Given the changes were an attempt to streamline I can't see multiple markers per model becoming the norm.

 

[m0n5t3r0u5]

Yup you are right. I missunderstood it.

 

[berzerkmonkey]

Why make these changes? What was the reason? who requested it? players or designers?

Supposedly, there was a lot of complaints/confusion regarding the "bookkeeping" of resonate counters. Also, once of the things Mr. Black brought up was that, while while the player could remove the resonate tokens, most players forgot or didn't know. So I guess that was a problem? I wouldn't know, because my regular opponent (Evil Dave) did know that rule, so would wind up removing most of the markers during a game.

Personally, while the changes do sound like a nerf to me, I'll have to play a few times to see for myself. It will be interesting to see if any of the other armies get a "quality of life" change as well, or if Hadross is the only "lucky" faction.